Would you buy an Integrale?
Discussion
For what it's worth, like you I think they are stunning.
I was in a position to buy something exotic and Italian a few months ago - not a garage queen but something decent that I wouldn't be afraid to take out on the road. A poster here very kindly and wisely suggested contacting an expert in Italian exotica of all kinds. I duly did so and when talk turned to the Integrale his words were (verbatim): 'You can literally hear them falling apart around you'. He also suggested that the driving experience wasn't all that it was made out to be and a few other negatives, however I expect the standard of what he considers a decent driving car are far higher than mine.
It hasn't diminished my lust for one but as a potential purchase in the real world using my own cash (as opposed to simply imagining one appearing out of thin air and straight into my fantasy garage) I did bow to his valued opinion I went for something else equally old that he also criticised for other reasons!
As a non-owner, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the same amount of money again to keep it in good shape.
I'm not trying to put you off, merely relaying the thoughts on them that I was given when I was in a similar position to yourself.
Good luck, and if you do get one we will want to see photos.
I was in a position to buy something exotic and Italian a few months ago - not a garage queen but something decent that I wouldn't be afraid to take out on the road. A poster here very kindly and wisely suggested contacting an expert in Italian exotica of all kinds. I duly did so and when talk turned to the Integrale his words were (verbatim): 'You can literally hear them falling apart around you'. He also suggested that the driving experience wasn't all that it was made out to be and a few other negatives, however I expect the standard of what he considers a decent driving car are far higher than mine.
It hasn't diminished my lust for one but as a potential purchase in the real world using my own cash (as opposed to simply imagining one appearing out of thin air and straight into my fantasy garage) I did bow to his valued opinion I went for something else equally old that he also criticised for other reasons!
As a non-owner, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the same amount of money again to keep it in good shape.
I'm not trying to put you off, merely relaying the thoughts on them that I was given when I was in a similar position to yourself.
Good luck, and if you do get one we will want to see photos.
DrBrule said:
For what it's worth, like you I think they are stunning.
I was in a position to buy something exotic and Italian a few months ago - not a garage queen but something decent that I wouldn't be afraid to take out on the road. A poster here very kindly and wisely suggested contacting an expert in Italian exotica of all kinds. I duly did so and when talk turned to the Integrale his words were (verbatim): 'You can literally hear them falling apart around you'. He also suggested that the driving experience wasn't all that it was made out to be and a few other negatives, however I expect the standard of what he considers a decent driving car are far higher than mine.
It hasn't diminished my lust for one but as a potential purchase in the real world using my own cash (as opposed to simply imagining one appearing out of thin air and straight into my fantasy garage) I did bow to his valued opinion I went for something else equally old that he also criticised for other reasons!
As a non-owner, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the same amount of money again to keep it in good shape.
I'm not trying to put you off, merely relaying the thoughts on them that I was given when I was in a similar position to yourself.
Good luck, and if you do get one we will want to see photos.
Sorry, but in my opinion that ‘expert’ is just waffling cliches. I’ve had my EVO2 for 10years, had zero mechanical issues with only minor replacement parts needed as and when needed as a precaution. Used it everywhere, and the driving experience (of a good one) is right up there. I was in a position to buy something exotic and Italian a few months ago - not a garage queen but something decent that I wouldn't be afraid to take out on the road. A poster here very kindly and wisely suggested contacting an expert in Italian exotica of all kinds. I duly did so and when talk turned to the Integrale his words were (verbatim): 'You can literally hear them falling apart around you'. He also suggested that the driving experience wasn't all that it was made out to be and a few other negatives, however I expect the standard of what he considers a decent driving car are far higher than mine.
It hasn't diminished my lust for one but as a potential purchase in the real world using my own cash (as opposed to simply imagining one appearing out of thin air and straight into my fantasy garage) I did bow to his valued opinion I went for something else equally old that he also criticised for other reasons!
As a non-owner, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had the same amount of money again to keep it in good shape.
I'm not trying to put you off, merely relaying the thoughts on them that I was given when I was in a similar position to yourself.
Good luck, and if you do get one we will want to see photos.
It’s an old car and there are plenty dogs out there, but same as everything that’s been low value but expensive to maintain for a period of time.
I’ve done 3k miles in mine this year alone, and drove it to the Alps where it’s been getting good use in the snow. It’s got 120,000 KM on it, and I’ve mainly used in winter (without rust!)
If you like them, find one that’s been used and looked after, and try for yourself.
Edited by footsoldier on Tuesday 18th January 17:22
footsoldier said:
Sorry, but in my opinion that ‘expert’ is just waffling cliches.
Maybe, but he is a bona fide expert in Italian classics and I trust his judgement. I'll caveat that by saying his standards are incredibly high so his 'falling apart' could be another person's 'odd creak and rattle'.footsoldier said:
It’s an old car and there are plenty dogs out there, but same as everything that’s been low value but expensive to maintain for a period of time.
Agreed, so set your expectations accordingly. I was merely passing on what advice I was told when I was considering one. Had my eventual purchase not been around at the same time I would have bought an Integrale and been more prepared for the maintenance.I would love to experience first hand what they are like.
I'm on my second Integrale, a red EVO 2 , my previous one was a Giallo Ginestra, absolutely love my car, great looks, great drive, incredibly "involving" to drive. I have my car serviced by Walkers and I've never had any problems with it. Would I buy one again - DEFINATELY !
You need to remember that you're buying a thirty year old classic car AND it's Italian ! I have a number of other cars including an Audi A1 Quattro which I suppose to some degree is a German Integrale ( although they're separated by twenty years ), the build quality differential between the A1 and the Integrale is significant as it always is between German and Italian cars ( I also have some Alfa's and Porsche's ) - If I was driving to the South of France I'd take the A1, if I want a blast over the Yorkshire moors on a Sunday afternoon, I'll always take the Integrale.
My Integrale is one of the last of my cars I'd sell - love it !
You need to remember that you're buying a thirty year old classic car AND it's Italian ! I have a number of other cars including an Audi A1 Quattro which I suppose to some degree is a German Integrale ( although they're separated by twenty years ), the build quality differential between the A1 and the Integrale is significant as it always is between German and Italian cars ( I also have some Alfa's and Porsche's ) - If I was driving to the South of France I'd take the A1, if I want a blast over the Yorkshire moors on a Sunday afternoon, I'll always take the Integrale.
My Integrale is one of the last of my cars I'd sell - love it !
My car also came from Walkers, who had looked after it for years, and still do.
To be fair, I did look at 3 'dogs' before buying that one - none of which were as advertised, (including one from a well-known Italian car "specialist"). I then decided to stop wasting time and paid a bit more for the Walkers one...I won't annoy anyone by saying how little that was, 11 years ago!
So, I think the answer is that a well sorted Integrale is a fantastic, reliable piece of kit, but you need to get a good one. The good news with values rising is that more and more are getting sorted, and also some more parts becoming available. The biggest improvement I made to mine was to replace the coilovers it came with, and to go back to the standard suspension. That's when you get the full experience and realise what a great car it is.
I've done 7hr Euro trips on motorways and up and down snowy Alps in last 6 months,. It's currently got a ski rack on it and a set of Nokian winters, and as per poster above, it is the last car I'd sell. No exaggeration, I could easily have it as one car to do it all... it does everything, is a good bridge between classic and modern in terms of usability, and you could happily drive it off the mountains and park up in front of the Hotel de Paris (if that's your thing) and it would look just as much at home.
To be fair, I did look at 3 'dogs' before buying that one - none of which were as advertised, (including one from a well-known Italian car "specialist"). I then decided to stop wasting time and paid a bit more for the Walkers one...I won't annoy anyone by saying how little that was, 11 years ago!
So, I think the answer is that a well sorted Integrale is a fantastic, reliable piece of kit, but you need to get a good one. The good news with values rising is that more and more are getting sorted, and also some more parts becoming available. The biggest improvement I made to mine was to replace the coilovers it came with, and to go back to the standard suspension. That's when you get the full experience and realise what a great car it is.
I've done 7hr Euro trips on motorways and up and down snowy Alps in last 6 months,. It's currently got a ski rack on it and a set of Nokian winters, and as per poster above, it is the last car I'd sell. No exaggeration, I could easily have it as one car to do it all... it does everything, is a good bridge between classic and modern in terms of usability, and you could happily drive it off the mountains and park up in front of the Hotel de Paris (if that's your thing) and it would look just as much at home.
For me, the mystique around them has pushed the prices way beyond what the integrale as a car is worth. It sometimes feels like a lot of people who are the biggest enthusiasts for them have never owned or even driven one. 
I really enjoyed mine, a 16v, but I'm glad I owned it ~25 years ago when values were a bit more reasonable.
If you understand what you're buying - a car which is very much from a previous era, not that fast by today's standards, a bit flimsy, based on a cheap-and-cheerless family hatch - and if the looks, ownership experience, and WRC legend makes it worth it for you and (as others have said) you find a good one, then you should buy it because nothing else will do.
I really enjoyed mine, a 16v, but I'm glad I owned it ~25 years ago when values were a bit more reasonable.If you understand what you're buying - a car which is very much from a previous era, not that fast by today's standards, a bit flimsy, based on a cheap-and-cheerless family hatch - and if the looks, ownership experience, and WRC legend makes it worth it for you and (as others have said) you find a good one, then you should buy it because nothing else will do.
Edited by jamies30 on Wednesday 19th January 18:47
footsoldier said:
Monty1502 said:
My Integrale is one of the last of my cars I'd sell - love it !
Nice selection...how is the SZ? They always tempt me, but I probably have same reliability questions in my head that others have about the Integrale! And even harder to find a good one...I've never had any reliability issues with my SZ ( or any other of my cars ) and I think as long as they're maintained well there's no problem ( famous last words ! )
Monty1502 said:
footsoldier said:
Monty1502 said:
My Integrale is one of the last of my cars I'd sell - love it !
Nice selection...how is the SZ? They always tempt me, but I probably have same reliability questions in my head that others have about the Integrale! And even harder to find a good one...I've never had any reliability issues with my SZ ( or any other of my cars ) and I think as long as they're maintained well there's no problem ( famous last words ! )
DrBrule said:
Without wanting to derail the thread, I bought an SZ instead of an Integrale.
Good choice! I quite often look at them, but then think I don’t need one because I have an Integrale, and the days I might use one of them would overlap too much. I was back at the classifieds last night though :-)
DrBrule said:
Monty1502 said:
footsoldier said:
Monty1502 said:
My Integrale is one of the last of my cars I'd sell - love it !
Nice selection...how is the SZ? They always tempt me, but I probably have same reliability questions in my head that others have about the Integrale! And even harder to find a good one...
While I look for an SZ…here’s a pic of mine from a few weeks ago.
Driven 1000 miles to get there - Just added the Blaupunkt retro radio with DAB Bluetooth etc, which is ideal for long trips.
I promise there’s not much better than an Integrale in the snow!
Driven 1000 miles to get there - Just added the Blaupunkt retro radio with DAB Bluetooth etc, which is ideal for long trips.
I promise there’s not much better than an Integrale in the snow!
Edited by footsoldier on Saturday 22 January 12:22
DrBrule said:
Without wanting to derail the thread, I bought an SZ instead of an Integrale.
Is the correct choice. That’s coming from someone with 5 Lancias who is Lancia mad. But the Delta leaves me cold for some reason which is crazy as I was a huge fan of Group B.$0.02 on experts. I have been put off buying a few cars in the past because of these so called experts. With time it was proved that they were absolutely clowns. Just my experiences. Due diligence is great but needs to be taken with a spoonful of suspicion.
Monty1502 said:
footsoldier said:
Monty1502 said:
My Integrale is one of the last of my cars I'd sell - love it !
Nice selection...how is the SZ? They always tempt me, but I probably have same reliability questions in my head that others have about the Integrale! And even harder to find a good one...I've never had any reliability issues with my SZ ( or any other of my cars ) and I think as long as they're maintained well there's no problem ( famous last words ! )
FWIW I love the Integrale - it's a great usable classic car. You make friends everywhere you go, and I've not found it too bad to run. In 7 years I've averaged less than £1k a year of servicing, including fixing a few minor electrics that didn't work when i bought it, fixed a couple of bits of bodywork which were scruffy, and had a top-end rebuild.
DrBrule said:
his words were (verbatim): 'You can literally hear them falling apart around you'. He also suggested that the driving experience wasn't all that it was made out to be and a few other negatives, however I expect the standard of what he considers a decent driving car are far higher than mine.
Speak to an actual expert in the subject (like Keith at Auto Integrale) and you will find the engines are very strong (homologated to win 6 WRCs!), there are occasional but resolvable electrical glitches and rust is something to monitor pro-actively but not the catastrophe predicted by armchair internet experts.
I've owned 2 integrales, the current one for 13 years, never missed a beat. Daily driven for much of my ownership but now generally for pleasure only.
As for driving experience, up until a couple of months ago, I also owned a 996 GT3 which had been heavily modified for track work. For 17 years of ownership I swore I would never sell it but in the end I had to make a decision to keep one or the other. The Lancia got the nod because it is the best road car I've ever owned: small, wieldy, punchy, grippy and characterful.
footsoldier said:
Sorry, but in my opinion that ‘expert’ is just waffling cliches. I’ve had my EVO2 for 10years, had zero mechanical issues with only minor replacement parts needed as and when needed as a precaution. Used it everywhere, and the driving experience (of a good one) is right up there.
It’s an old car and there are plenty dogs out there, but same as everything that’s been low value but expensive to maintain for a period of time.
I’ve done 3k miles in mine this year alone, and drove it to the Alps where it’s been getting good use in the snow. It’s got 120,000 KM on it, and I’ve mainly used in winter (without rust!)
If you like them, find one that’s been used and looked after, and try for yourself.
I agree. He probably thinks TVRs are always broken down too. I found the integrale driving experience was outrageously good and probably still is today. They were also pretty well put together as I recall too albeit difficult to work on.It’s an old car and there are plenty dogs out there, but same as everything that’s been low value but expensive to maintain for a period of time.
I’ve done 3k miles in mine this year alone, and drove it to the Alps where it’s been getting good use in the snow. It’s got 120,000 KM on it, and I’ve mainly used in winter (without rust!)
If you like them, find one that’s been used and looked after, and try for yourself.
Edited by footsoldier on Tuesday 18th January 17:22
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