Confused over streamer + DAC options
Confused over streamer + DAC options
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Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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The title gives the game away. I kind of get it, but the tech options confuse simple me.

Basically, I love headphones and that’s all I’m interested in driving. I have Sennheiser HD800s and Grado Professional Series 1000e headphones and Noble Kaiser Encore Custom IEMs, plus a Violectric V281 headphone amp. I also have an A&K Kann (the old one) and loved streaming from Tidal into all the above headphones….until support for Tidal on the Kann ended last year.

I’m considering the new A&K SP2000T DAP..but A&K customer service isn’t great and I’m pretty unhappy with the sudden drop of Tidal for the Kann.

So….with a budget of say £3k (I’ll be selling stuff)…does anyone have recommendations either about the new A&K or even a non-mobile streamer (and do I need an off board DAC?). The Naim Uniti Atom looks good and works with Tidal (and the others) though lack of MQA support isn’t great. I’d prefer to use my Violectric headphone amp too and not pay for duplicative components.

Is there another standalone streamer/DAC I should consider? It can be a home-only setup (ie needn’t be portable). Budget is a bit flexible.

Thanks all.

theboss

7,279 posts

235 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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I use a Linn Akurate DS on my HDVD800/HD800 setup and it sounds great, you can pick them up commonly for about £1k on ebay, Tidal support is native and the older devices still get firmware updates. I'm just about to send it off to have it upgraded t the latest spec board/DACs for under £2k which means it will return electronically identical to the current product (RRP £7.5k) along with a 5 year warranty, which strikes me as pretty good longevity for a streamer I bought 13 years ago.

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
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Interesting…hadn’t considered 2nd hand. I’m wary of eBay but it would bring so much more within reach. Will catch-up on some reviews too.

Many thanks.

Parabola

1,861 posts

213 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
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I have a NAD C658 streamer. Does everything I need. Tidal MQA included. DAC , Pre amp, headphone amp. Love the thing.

£1500, but Sevenoaks did a deal for £999 when they messed up a repair job for me. They seem pretty keen to do a deal on the phone.

Crackie

6,386 posts

258 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
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You may have see the Auralic Altair G1 during your searches but if not it's one for the shortlist / auditioning.

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-aura...

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
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Good call - yes I was looking at the Auralic reviews last night - one waxed so lyrical about listening to a Mark Knopfler track on the Altair that I spent the next hour listening to one of his solo albums smile.

I wasn’t so keen on the lack of a dedicated remote though, or fact it’s not upgradable. That’s something I appreciate with some of the Linn and Naim units.

It’s been years since I was truly into hifi and this feels like vanishing down the rabbit hole again! Yes, I did freeze CDs overnight at one point…

rxe

6,700 posts

119 months

Wednesday 5th January 2022
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Parabola said:
I have a NAD C658 streamer. Does everything I need. Tidal MQA included. DAC , Pre amp, headphone amp. Love the thing.

£1500, but Sevenoaks did a deal for £999 when they messed up a repair job for me. They seem pretty keen to do a deal on the phone.
I have zero interest in headphones (sorry!), and went for the NAD M10V2 - but I'm hugely impressed with both the Bluesound OS (and apps) as well as the sound quality. But in both these cases, the OP would be paying for a bucket of amplification that he doesn't use!

I'd chuck in a Blusesound Node into one of your existing headphone amps. You get all the streaming + BlueOS capability reasonably cheaply and they sound pretty good. Its worth a listen given the price!


sociopath

3,433 posts

82 months

Wednesday 5th January 2022
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Parabola said:
I have a NAD C658 streamer. Does everything I need. Tidal MQA included. DAC , Pre amp, headphone amp. Love the thing.

£1500, but Sevenoaks did a deal for £999 when they messed up a repair job for me. They seem pretty keen to do a deal on the phone.
Seconded on the NAD, I love it, I don't even bother with the headphone amp anymore, just plug in direct.

Crackie

6,386 posts

258 months

Wednesday 5th January 2022
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Aces_High said:
Good call - yes I was looking at the Auralic reviews last night - one waxed so lyrical about listening to a Mark Knopfler track on the Altair that I spent the next hour listening to one of his solo albums smile.

I wasn’t so keen on the lack of a dedicated remote though, or fact it’s not upgradable. That’s something I appreciate with some of the Linn and Naim units.

It’s been years since I was truly into hifi and this feels like vanishing down the rabbit hole again! Yes, I did freeze CDs overnight at one point…
These two sites may be of interest bearing in mind your headphone based listening.

Headphones https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/about/who-are...

Headphone amps https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/about/who-are... Some Auralic tests here.......bit of a mixed bag.

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Thursday 6th January 2022
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Thanks all, I’ll check those suggestions and links out. Someone made a point that’s important to me - I don’t want to pay for functionality I already have, so another headphone amp or great preamp abilities etc built and priced into a new piece of kit aren’t needed - am happy with my Violectric headphone amp and I’ll stick to cans,

I’d love to get back to pre- and power amps (always wanted monoblocks - insanely cool looking), big-ass speakers etc….but reality is I’d just never get the chance to use it, home life being the way it is. Headphones are a compromise but done well, I love them. The Sennheiser HD800s especially, are just awesome.

Anyway, continue to appreciate all the helpful suggestions, thanks all,

theboss

7,279 posts

235 months

Saturday 8th January 2022
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Aces_High said:
Interesting…hadn’t considered 2nd hand. I’m wary of eBay but it would bring so much more within reach. Will catch-up on some reviews too.

Many thanks.
I definitely would be wary of ebay private sellers, but if you look for high end hifi you find a lot of sellers are dealers or other businesses.

Personally I would try and put a top rate source on the setup you have, Linn and Naim are obvious contenders and I must admit I'm ignorant of other competing products but there must be loads of very good devices in budget especially if you go used.

Last time I bought an ex dem unit from a dealer significantly marked down it was effectively on 60 day trial - send it back for full refund if not wanted. Could always be worth looking for something on that basis to get a feel for certain products/ranges.

Do you have any desire to mix other sources eg do you want a combined streamer and pre-amp that can accept other inputs, or just a simple source device that you connect to your headphone amp with interconnects?

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Saturday 8th January 2022
quotequote all
theboss said:
Do you have any desire to mix other sources eg do you want a combined streamer and pre-amp that can accept other inputs, or just a simple source device that you connect to your headphone amp with interconnects?
I don’t foresee any other inputs - I gave up on CD and vinyl long ago. I guess it’s possible on the output side that I go back to amps and speakers instead of headphones only at some point, which suggests the best source is advisable. For now though, it’s just about how to make Tidal sound awesome through cans into my ears.

If I saw the Naim NDX2 pre-owned for a good price that could be v interesting, though it’s out of range now (and prob will remain so). The ND5 XS2 is within budget though so I’ll consider that.

For sheer convenience though, the new A&K SP2000T DAP is intriguing. The multiple amps sound a bit gimmicky.

Head-spinning!

legzr1

3,877 posts

155 months

Sunday 9th January 2022
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Naim don’t support MQA Tidal Maters.

I currently use an NDX(1) with a TP XPS, previously a CA851N and others from Pioneer and Marantz before that.

I’m not convinced by MQA or the issues I had with Tidal over the years with most of my streamers so I took a punt on a free trial of Qobuz. I cancelled Tidal soon afterwards.

I believe the NDX(2) and the newer Naim streamers support Qobuz hi-res natively now (I have a workaround using Bubbleupnp on a NAS on my NDX(1) ).
A Synolgy NAS with bubbleupnp will store all your music and provide you with ‘true’ hi-res from Qobuz to feed an NDX. These are readily available on the used market for around £1200. £3-£400 for a NAS. This will give you an excellent front end for around £1500.

All you’d be missing out on compared to the NDX(2) would be the updated streamer functions. You’d still have the excellent build and sound quality at half your budget. Some of that could be spent on a PSU from Teddy Pardo, CHC or Naim themselves.
Adding a Sonore Bridge would give you access to Roon too if that’s of interest.

The main ‘issue’ with Naim is the upgrade potential and the temptations.
I’d love an ND555/PS555 but it’s crazy money. However, I have my eye on a used Naim NDS which can be used in exactly the same way as my NDX with the NAS/bubbleupnp. I could even use the TP XPS with it……sorry, I digress.

I chose a used NDX with the rather convoluted solution to get hi-res over the ND5 XS2 purely on sound quality.

stevoknevo

1,710 posts

206 months

Sunday 9th January 2022
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I also was going to suggest an NDX 2 if you can find one used in budget, or an ND5 XS2 if you want to buy new (I know a guy on another forum with the latter and he loves it, convinced another member to buy one and he loves it too)
Only issue I can see with NAIM is that it doesn't have a conventional balanced XLR output because they use their own five pin DIN output - everything I've read on your Violectric says it's at its best fed via XLR, so you'd either need to feed it single ended via RCA or you can buy a five pin DIN to twin RCA cable, but it won't be optimal for your amplifier.
What about a Moon 280D, £2950 and ten year warranty - https://hifiandmusicsource.com/2021/08/moon-280d-s...

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Sunday 9th January 2022
quotequote all
stevoknevo said:
I also was going to suggest an NDX 2 if you can find one used in budget, or an ND5 XS2 if you want to buy new (I know a guy on another forum with the latter and he loves it, convinced another member to buy one and he loves it too)
Only issue I can see with NAIM is that it doesn't have a conventional balanced XLR output because they use their own five pin DIN output - everything I've read on your Violectric says it's at its best fed via XLR, so you'd either need to feed it single ended via RCA or you can buy a five pin DIN to twin RCA cable, but it won't be optimal for your amplifier.
What about a Moon 280D, £2950 and ten year warranty - https://hifiandmusicsource.com/2021/08/moon-280d-s...
I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve been letting the Violectric really restrict things, Applying beguiling man maths and considering some items I could sell, I’m looking now at a higher price point - either the Naim NDX2 or the Auralic Altair G2.1, to form a new backbone for a future system, The Auralic especially is highly tempting. Naim are always deeply impressive but the upgrade-itis push always for separate power supplies looks expensive. Am keen to audition the Altair now as I like its feature set, NAS ability and supposed high sound quality.

It really is a rabbit hole though - always something higher up the quality ladder. I know the key is to set a budget and stick to it, so that’s now the cap!

theboss

7,279 posts

235 months

Monday 10th January 2022
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If you lose a top class headphone amp - what are you going to replace it with? Or do you intend to use the same system with speakers and headphones are only secondary?

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Monday 10th January 2022
quotequote all
That’s a good question. I’ll keep the Violectric as I love it and I can always keep that in one room and still use my old A&K Kann which has a bunch of recordings on it (just no further Tidal support). The Violectric is easily portable so it can be moved around the house easily as needed. But when someone asked about speakers and I first thought no need, I’m a headphones only guy, it made me stop and think again (coupled with other real world practicalities about probably not moving for a while). I realise I do miss speakers pushing air. So I’d ideally like the higher-end streamer/DAC to be the basis of a speaker system. If it’s possible and makes sense to connect it via a headphone amp as well, then happy days, but they’ll serve different functions in different places. I’m kinda thinking the Auralic into active speakers could be terrific for example. Alternatively, I have some old floorstanders already (though passive) so maybe a cheapish power amp could be a good start.

But …early days and all that. I need to audition the kit and also now sell some stuff (none of it hifi).

Thanks again

theboss

7,279 posts

235 months

Monday 17th January 2022
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234366069242?hash=item3...

That's a lot of digital source for £3k, with dealer support / audition and return option and a degree of upgradeability.

Aces_High

Original Poster:

97 posts

63 months

Sunday 23rd January 2022
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Definitely worth a look, though it’s quite an old unit. Fair point on the upgrade path though, plus dealer support. I guess the other thing is that streamer tech hasn’t fundamentally changed all that much over the years, it’s just got better connected etc, so maybe the age isn’t even that big a deal either.

In the end I suspect I’ll be prepared to pay for the comfort of the new, but it’ll give someone a great deal, I realise.

beanoir

1,327 posts

211 months

Monday 14th February 2022
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I adopted Roon a few years ago and now have a dedicated Roon Rock unit with a separate DAC and amp. If you haven't checked it out, then it's well worth a look.

It was so impressive I ended up selling my Cyrus Stream X Signature because it added nothing.