Why did F1 stop only counting best results for the WDC?

Why did F1 stop only counting best results for the WDC?

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DOCG

Original Poster:

603 posts

60 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
For those who don't know, in the past only a drivers best number of results would count towards their championship points total and a certain number of worst results would be "dropped".

For example from 1980-1991 only a drivers best 11 race results would count towards the championship standings. Prost actually scored more total points than Senna in 1988 but Senna won the championship as his best 11 results were better than Prost's.

This seems like a very good idea to me as there are always some things outside of a drivers control such as mechanical failures or other drivers crashing into them. I believe that the effect that luck has on a championship should be minimised as much as possible.

It is widely believed that Kimi Raikkonen should have won the 2005 championship but lost it due to appalling McLaren reliability, something a driver should not be penalised for. A system like this minimises the effect that such things have on the WDC. All rounds counted towards the constructors.

So why did F1 abandon this system? Is it not a much better way of determining who the best driver was of a particular season?

Smollet

11,470 posts

196 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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No

Muzzer79

10,863 posts

193 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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No.

It was a stupid idea

monthou

4,826 posts

56 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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DOCG said:
Is it not a much better way of determining who the best driver was of a particular season?
The wdc has never done that. It's a test of driver, car, team.

carl_w

9,441 posts

264 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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monthou said:
The wdc has never done that. It's a test of driver, car, team.
Yes it has. According to Wikepedia it was to assist teams who may not have had the finances to complete all of the events, and was discontinued once the Concorde Agreements were signed (which I think meant the teams had to commit to all the events and could be disqualified for missing one). At one point it was best 11 to count, and at another point it was something like best 5 from the first half of the season and best 5 from the second half.

monthou

4,826 posts

56 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
carl_w said:
monthou said:
The wdc has never done that. It's a test of driver, car, team.
Yes it has. According to Wikepedia it was to assist teams who may not have had the finances to complete all of the events, and was discontinued once the Concorde Agreements were signed (which I think meant the teams had to commit to all the events and could be disqualified for missing one). At one point it was best 11 to count, and at another point it was something like best 5 from the first half of the season and best 5 from the second half.
Was that back in the day when all teams ran the same car?
Or have you completely misunderstood what I wrote?

DOCG

Original Poster:

603 posts

60 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
Smollet said:
No
What no? It wasn't a yes or no question, it was a "why" question.

monthou

4,826 posts

56 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
DOCG said:
Smollet said:
No
What no? It wasn't a yes or no question, it was a "why" question.
You ended with " Is it not a much better way of determining who the best driver was of a particular season?"
Pretty sure the "no" refers to that.

MustangGT

12,055 posts

286 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
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It also dates back to the days when cars were far less reliable. You could have a situation where one driver wins every race he finishes, yet the car blows up for a lot of races. Is he more deserving of the WDC than a driver who finishes 2nd or 3rd in all the races with no DNFs? Who knows? But it does take that out of the equation.

Current F1 - No place for that idea at all.

Smollet

11,470 posts

196 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
monthou said:
DOCG said:
Smollet said:
No
What no? It wasn't a yes or no question, it was a "why" question.
You ended with " Is it not a much better way of determining who the best driver was of a particular season?"
Pretty sure the "no" refers to that.
Correct.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

52 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
It would also have made Prost world champion in 88 where the current rules in place, something I will always hate FIA for.

But it has no place in modern f1, cars are massively reliable now because the limits are pushed elsewhere, limits on engines were the thing to be pushed until the end of the v10 era in the chase for power before aero was the only thing that mattered so much but that changed with engine and box limits, it was often the case a team would have a stock of 50 engines a season to work with in the 80's turbo era, more for new teams.

DOCG

Original Poster:

603 posts

60 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
It would also have made Prost world champion in 88 where the current rules in place, something I will always hate FIA for.

But it has no place in modern f1, cars are massively reliable now because the limits are pushed elsewhere, limits on engines were the thing to be pushed until the end of the v10 era in the chase for power before aero was the only thing that mattered so much but that changed with engine and box limits, it was often the case a team would have a stock of 50 engines a season to work with in the 80's turbo era, more for new teams.
Why do you hate the FIA for that?

carl_w

9,441 posts

264 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
monthou said:
Was that back in the day when all teams ran the same car?
Or have you completely misunderstood what I wrote?
The latter

monthou

4,826 posts

56 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
carl_w said:
monthou said:
Was that back in the day when all teams ran the same car?
Or have you completely misunderstood what I wrote?
The latter
Fair enuff. beer

PhilAsia

4,507 posts

81 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
It also dates back to the days when cars were far less reliable. You could have a situation where one driver wins every race he finishes, yet the car blows up for a lot of races. Is he more deserving of the WDC than a driver who finishes 2nd or 3rd in all the races with no DNFs? Who knows? But it does take that out of the equation.

Current F1 - No place for that idea at all.
I think this is key to using all points at present. Certainly reliability has been less of a problem since 2007. Even more so since 2014.

Edited by PhilAsia on Monday 3rd January 20:23

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

52 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
Because it would have given Prost another world title, one that he richly deserved. As he scored more points over the season. But that is now, this was then and they all knew the system and he will not be bothered!!

hot metal

1,989 posts

199 months

Monday 3rd January 2022
quotequote all
DOCG said:
For those who don't know, in the past only a drivers best number of results would count towards their championship points total and a certain number of worst results would be "dropped".

For example from 1980-1991 only a drivers best 11 race results would count towards the championship standings. Prost actually scored more total points than Senna in 1988 but Senna won the championship as his best 11 results were better than Prost's.

This seems like a very good idea to me as there are always some things outside of a drivers control such as mechanical failures or other drivers crashing into them. I believe that the effect that luck has on a championship should be minimised as much as possible.

It is widely believed that Kimi Raikkonen should have won the 2005 championship but lost it due to appalling McLaren reliability, something a driver should not be penalised for. A system like this minimises the effect that such things have on the WDC. All rounds counted towards the constructors.

So why did F1 abandon this system? Is it not a much better way of determining who the best driver was of a particular season?
Scheckter won the WDC in 1979 because he had no mechanical failures, 2 DNF`s one because of injury and 1 loose wheel/puncture, I think the system was in use then, Jones scored more points . That was the best 4 results from each half of the season, even dumber idea.

Edited by hot metal on Monday 3rd January 23:50

anonymous-user

60 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
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LukeBrown66 said:
Because it would have given Prost another world title, one that he richly deserved. As he scored more points over the season. But that is now, this was then and they all knew the system and he will not be bothered!!
You compete to the rules of the championship and whoever scores the most points under the rules in place wins, unless Masi is running the show.

Ian974

2,988 posts

205 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
quotequote all
IIRC, there has been (is?) a similar championship system in some club karting etc, I guess there is a time and place where allowing some to drop a couple bad races/ ignore a DNS result when they were unable to attend would make sense, but F1 is a bit of a different kettle of fish and this isn't really needed.

Sandpit Steve

11,232 posts

80 months

Tuesday 4th January 2022
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PhilAsia said:
I think this is key to using all points at present. Certainly reliability has been less of a problem since 2007. Even more so since 2014.
Reliability is written in the rule book now, with the strict limits on power unit component and gearbox usage, and harsh penalties for excessive use over the season.

If you’d told the mechanics of a couple of decades ago, who would spend their evenings rebuilding engines before swapping in qualifying specials on Saturdays, that a modern F1 engine would have to run up to 6,000km between rebuilds or suffer a sporting penalty…