The Matrix - derivative?

[JonRB]

I remember when The Matrix came out thinking that it was somewhat derivative and that I had seen "bullet time" before in an old Smirnoff advert. I eventually forgot about this and came to accept that bullet time was first seen in The Matrix.

The "corny film" thread got me thinking about this again and so I did a bit of googling and found that the advert is called 'Smarienberg' directed by Michel Gondry.

See here and view the advert here

So, not content with ripping off Ghost In The Shell, Akira, countless martial arts movies and God knows what else, it turns out that the Wachowski Brothers didn't even invent bullet time.

Remarkable.

>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 14:35

[draft]

[JonRB]

draft said:

[Nevin]

First major film with bullet time though, just like T2 was the first major film with morphing, although they didn't invent that either.

That Smirnoff advert was very cool though

[JonRB]

Nevin said:

First major film with bullet time though, just like T2 was the first major film with morphing, although they didn't invent that either.

Fair point.

Nevin said:

That Smirnoff advert was very cool though

I always though so.

>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 15:23

[scared but happy]

Nevin said:

First major film with bullet time though, just like T2 was the first major film with morphing, although they didn't invent that either. That Smirnoff advert was very cool though

Correct that was The Abyss

[JonRB]

scared but happy said:

Correct that was The Abyss

Abyss didn't use morphing as such, although the CGI on the water pseudopod that changed into a face was certainly innovative and ground-breaking.

[draft]

JonRB said:

draft said:

Sorry thought you were having a moment

[JagLover]

JonRB said:

I remember when The Matrix came out thinking that it was somewhat derivative

It might have borrowed ideas from elsewhere but it was still very original for a hollywood film.

One might as well say Star Wars was derivative because it borrowed themes from Japanese cinema and westerns.

[JonRB]

JagLover said:

It might have borrowed ideas from elsewhere but it was still very original for a hollywood film.

For a mainstream Hollywood film, certainly. However, to an avid Sci-Fi reader and fan of Anime and Manga, you've got to agree that it had certainly "borrowed" an awful lot and mixed it all up into a bit of a mish-mash. Don't get me wrong - it was a good enough film, but there was certainly an element of "spot the origin" to a lot of it.

One thing that really grated at the time, and still does, is the machines using people as batteries. They could have easily achieved the same result if they had lobotomised them. A far more plausible premise would have been them using people as CPUs in a distributed system. It is always said that people only use 10% of their brain capacity, so the film could have postulated that the other 90% was being used by the machines to run software on.

JagLover said:

One might as well say Star Wars was derivative because it borrowed themes from Japanese cinema and westerns.

I agree, it did. But the innovation was that it transposed those themes into a totally new context (ie. "a galaxy far, far away" ).

>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 28th July 15:52

[xm5er]

JonRB said:

scared but happy said: Correct that was The Abyss Abyss didn't use morphing as such, although the CGI on the water pseudopod that changed into a face was certainly innovative and ground-breaking.

But the film was pig shite borin'.

[cotty]

JagLover said:

One might as well say Star Wars was derivative because it borrowed themes from Japanese cinema and westerns.

Dont forget the dogfights in The Battle Of Britain

[JonRB]

cotty said:

Dont forget the dogfights in The Battle Of Britain

Are you referring to the fact that when George Lucas showed the rushes to friends like Speilberg he cut in WW2 dogfight footage in place of the SFX that ILM hadn't yet completed?

[4WD]

For me the idea behind the Matrix surpasses any on screen effects, even though they are rather good. Still a great debut film, albeit a touch 'popcorn'. Would have been interesting to see an even darker version, directed by Ridley or Cameron. Matrix 2 seems to be a waste of time and should have been incorporated into 3. But that would have meant less DVD sales of course.

[JagLover]

JonRB said:

cotty said: Dont forget the dogfights in The Battle Of Britain Are you referring to the fact that when George Lucas showed the rushes to friends like Speilberg he cut in WW2 dogfight footage in place of the SFX that ILM hadn't yet completed?

Yes I heard that too

But it is more than that, many of the dog fights in Star Wars are based on dog fights in WW2 films.

[sadako]

JonRB said:

One thing that really grated at the time, and still does, is the machines using people as batteries. They could have easily achieved the same result if they had lobotomised them.

bash.org said:

WrmSlayer> The AI in the matrix got it all wrong WrmSlayer> they should have just used cows instead of humans WrmSlayer> no chance of rebelion Reverend> yeah Reverend> stupid AI WrmSlayer> and the mootrix would have just been a big sunny infinite field of grass

Just my tupence worth, Bullet time was what the act of slowing down time in the game Max Payne was called, It was released about the same time as the Matrix and seemed to coin the phraze. You also have to take into account that Max Payne was in development a lot longer than the matrix was

[CarZee]

JonRB said:

One thing that really grated at the time, and still does, is the machines using people as batteries. They could have easily achieved the same result if they had lobotomised them. A far more plausible premise would have been them using people as CPUs in a distributed system. It is always said that people only use 10% of their brain capacity, so the film could have postulated that the other 90% was being used by the machines to run software on.

ISTR that was the original line, but was dropped at some stage of production as it was thought too complicated for mainstream audiences.

This might be total cobblers though.

[MEMSDesign]

JonRB said:

One thing that really grated at the time, and still does, is the machines using people as batteries. They could have easily achieved the same result if they had lobotomised them. A far more plausible premise would have been them using people as CPUs in a distributed system. It is always said that people only use 10% of their brain capacity, so the film could have postulated that the other 90% was being used by the machines to run software on.

I said exactly the same thing when I watched it. And I posted it here too. Glad to hear someone else thinks like me (unless you thieved my idea )

More on topic, I thought that Blade was released before The Matrix, and that film has a scene with 'bullet time'. New term for me that one.

>> Edited by MEMSDesign on Thursday 28th July 21:45

[dilbert]

I figure that the matrix is for people that don't like old fashioned black and white Sci~Fi.

If all that the matrix has to set it apart from all the other big budget one idea films, I guess it's the sort of film that ought to make history!

Give me "The invaders" any day.

[4WD]

Your right about Max Payne. I forgot all about that. I played it many years ago too.