M140I to M2C/M4C
Discussion
Hi guys just wondering if any of you have done this as iam coming to the end of my PCP on the 140I and in a pretty strong position with the value of the 140i being a lot more than the final payment. I have always wanted an M2C or M4C but was not in a position to afford one until now and wondered if they are that much better than the M140I.
SOUND Do they sound as bad as everyone say, i like the induction noise of the M140I if a little muted and would hope the M2U/M4C would not be as muted.
PERFORMANCE the M140I is not lacking here, but is there a notable feel of difference i do not track cars but like a spirited drive every now and then.
RUNNING COSTS i expect an increase in servicing, extended BMW warranty but what are they like on fuel the M140I was very good for the performance and since the car would be my daily would like to know if there is a big difference here.
FEEL the M140I is great day to day and the engine is brilliant matched with the ZF, but it does not make me feel like its an occasion to drive it just does everything very very well.
Any feedback would be most welcome thanks in advance guys
SOUND Do they sound as bad as everyone say, i like the induction noise of the M140I if a little muted and would hope the M2U/M4C would not be as muted.
PERFORMANCE the M140I is not lacking here, but is there a notable feel of difference i do not track cars but like a spirited drive every now and then.
RUNNING COSTS i expect an increase in servicing, extended BMW warranty but what are they like on fuel the M140I was very good for the performance and since the car would be my daily would like to know if there is a big difference here.
FEEL the M140I is great day to day and the engine is brilliant matched with the ZF, but it does not make me feel like its an occasion to drive it just does everything very very well.
Any feedback would be most welcome thanks in advance guys
My 2019 M4C sounds disappointing. You'll probably find the same with the M2C as the particulate filters post-2018 killed the noise. Road noise in the cabin is loud too. It's really annoying on long motorway journeys and find myself turning the radio up, fortunately it's a decent radio.
Running costs of mine in 13,000 miles and two years have been a £320 RIS and £300 first service. Still on my original rear tyres and front have been replaced twice due to outer shoulder wear on track and two nails in the space of a week. £250 for a Michelin Super Sport front (or rear). I've averaged 22mpg in that time but it's mainly town driving.
I've driven a couple M135/140is and they're good but they're not an M car. You'll notice it. That feeling of the diff gripping and propelling you out of a corner in an M car is not there in an M lite.
Running costs of mine in 13,000 miles and two years have been a £320 RIS and £300 first service. Still on my original rear tyres and front have been replaced twice due to outer shoulder wear on track and two nails in the space of a week. £250 for a Michelin Super Sport front (or rear). I've averaged 22mpg in that time but it's mainly town driving.
I've driven a couple M135/140is and they're good but they're not an M car. You'll notice it. That feeling of the diff gripping and propelling you out of a corner in an M car is not there in an M lite.
For noise the original N55 M2 is better IME. The servicing is also the same cost as a M135i / M140i. Straight line performance will be similar too, ie excellent, but a little step below the M2C's.
The rest of the driving experience is quasi identical to a M2C IME despite the internet myths. Suspension hardware is the same after all.
The rest of the driving experience is quasi identical to a M2C IME despite the internet myths. Suspension hardware is the same after all.
I did it 3 years ago Manual M140 to M2C. The difference was extraordinary. The M2 was savage by comparison and handling was a million miles better. The M140 felt like a shopping trolley by comparison. And I didn’t mind the sound of the M2C either. I’ve since moved on but actually still miss it and the grunt.
I know I’m in a minority (possibly of one) but I like the sound my F80 M3 Comp makes. At WOT in Sports+ I think the noise matches the cars character. I believe the the post-OPF M4’s are more muted though. Non-comp cars possibly different again too as the exhaust hardware is subtly different.
Servicing isn’t horrendous. The spark plug change is pricey due to the labour but overall I do think routine costs are modest relative to the performance.
Economy is 22mpg mixed driving. You can touch 30mpg on a steady NSL journey if you’re careful, but that’s it. ~£85 is getting me 250 miles at the moment.
Servicing isn’t horrendous. The spark plug change is pricey due to the labour but overall I do think routine costs are modest relative to the performance.
Economy is 22mpg mixed driving. You can touch 30mpg on a steady NSL journey if you’re careful, but that’s it. ~£85 is getting me 250 miles at the moment.
I went M135i manual with base spec, to fully loaded OG M2 manual.
The M135i was worth £11k ish. The M2 low 30s. So the diff was hard to justify.
I tried an M2C and didn't like the noise, and overall it felt quite uninspiring. It was a DCT, which felt clunky and dim-witted. Maybe a longer test drive was needed. I decided i wanted a manual, which left only a few cars to choose from, and all £45k+.
I decided on OG M2 manual as it addressed the things i didn't like about the M135i (looks, ride quality, feel), yet kept the things i liked (N55 engine!) and turned everything up to 11.
We still have the M135i as it has become our family car, replacing the Focus we had before. In that role it's excellent. It's not threatening but fast enough to feel fun and show a clean pair of heels to most things.
The M2 has a harder ride, but is less bouncy and unsettled, and more composed. So overall it's actually a nicer experience.
The steering on the M2 feels better. It's less light and to me it has more feel, and helps to make the car feel tight and angrier than the M135i.
M2 feels faster. It has a much more potent midrange and pulls harder. Neither are slow, but the M2 feels like an event.
MPG is similar. Both average 31-33mpg. Roughly £70 fill gives about 320-360 miles. About 20p/mile. M2 will do late 30s on a run. I've had mid-40s out of the M135i on a steady trip. M2 is harder to drive like that as it's addictive!
The better spec on the M2 helps lift it. It's a very nice place to be.
My Thule roof bars fit either car, so i can carry bikes on whichever takes my fancy.
Servicing is similar, but brakes and tyres are more expensive on the M2. Insurance is similar.
I expect the M2 to depreciate, but M135i should hold at £10k now. M2 is always going to have a big gap between even the best and newest Mx35i/Mx40i. I seriously considered going M135i to fully optioned M140i, but the diff (£11k to £21k) was hard to justify. I felt like i'd prefer to add another £10k to scratch the //M car itch. Right now dealers are asking £27k for a nearly new M140i shadow, which is great for keeping the values of OG M2s up.
I need to get the M2 on track. As a road car it's ace, but i need to explore the limits of it. It always feels like it could be pushed much harder if only i had the confidence. The M135i doesn't make me feel like that. Pushing it feels like i'm making it do something it wasn't meant to do, and i have no desire to take it on track.
The M2 has a real sense of drama, which the M135i can't match.
And obvs the M2 looks amazing!!!
The M135i was worth £11k ish. The M2 low 30s. So the diff was hard to justify.
I tried an M2C and didn't like the noise, and overall it felt quite uninspiring. It was a DCT, which felt clunky and dim-witted. Maybe a longer test drive was needed. I decided i wanted a manual, which left only a few cars to choose from, and all £45k+.
I decided on OG M2 manual as it addressed the things i didn't like about the M135i (looks, ride quality, feel), yet kept the things i liked (N55 engine!) and turned everything up to 11.
We still have the M135i as it has become our family car, replacing the Focus we had before. In that role it's excellent. It's not threatening but fast enough to feel fun and show a clean pair of heels to most things.
The M2 has a harder ride, but is less bouncy and unsettled, and more composed. So overall it's actually a nicer experience.
The steering on the M2 feels better. It's less light and to me it has more feel, and helps to make the car feel tight and angrier than the M135i.
M2 feels faster. It has a much more potent midrange and pulls harder. Neither are slow, but the M2 feels like an event.
MPG is similar. Both average 31-33mpg. Roughly £70 fill gives about 320-360 miles. About 20p/mile. M2 will do late 30s on a run. I've had mid-40s out of the M135i on a steady trip. M2 is harder to drive like that as it's addictive!
The better spec on the M2 helps lift it. It's a very nice place to be.
My Thule roof bars fit either car, so i can carry bikes on whichever takes my fancy.
Servicing is similar, but brakes and tyres are more expensive on the M2. Insurance is similar.
I expect the M2 to depreciate, but M135i should hold at £10k now. M2 is always going to have a big gap between even the best and newest Mx35i/Mx40i. I seriously considered going M135i to fully optioned M140i, but the diff (£11k to £21k) was hard to justify. I felt like i'd prefer to add another £10k to scratch the //M car itch. Right now dealers are asking £27k for a nearly new M140i shadow, which is great for keeping the values of OG M2s up.
I need to get the M2 on track. As a road car it's ace, but i need to explore the limits of it. It always feels like it could be pushed much harder if only i had the confidence. The M135i doesn't make me feel like that. Pushing it feels like i'm making it do something it wasn't meant to do, and i have no desire to take it on track.
The M2 has a real sense of drama, which the M135i can't match.
And obvs the M2 looks amazing!!!
Edited by PTF on Monday 27th December 08:40
There's nothing dim witted about the M2C if you're pushing on b roads (speaking as somebody coming from very quick road and race Caterhams). You only have to watch either CH or Carfection reviews on youtube if you don't believe a rando on the internet.
The above point about the diff is key.
CH answers your questions here (M3 rather than M4): https://youtu.be/jH4hz9OB1L0?t=221
If noise is a concern, then you can spend £400 on a back box mod or £650 on an equal length back box mod from Mod Stock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNh_6X_0EY
The above point about the diff is key.
CH answers your questions here (M3 rather than M4): https://youtu.be/jH4hz9OB1L0?t=221
If noise is a concern, then you can spend £400 on a back box mod or £650 on an equal length back box mod from Mod Stock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNh_6X_0EY
Handling and steering feel are two of the main reasons an M car come with the added costs.
In terms of speed it will be negligible, I think the DCT will feel harsher in comparison which will add to the feel of the M car.
If it was me the jump would be to go to an M2C which has the s55 engine and obviously is properly set up with the diff and additional suspension components to make it handle properly. If your m140 had a birds package on it with a diff and b12s then I probably would say you wouldn't notice enough to warrant the outlay however owning an M car is about the whole package and how the car makes you feel as well as the drive and for that reason they can't really be beaten.
Having chased a few tuned m2c on a b road blast in my e46 m3 I can say they're bloody quick and very well set up. The two I was out on a run with were running near 500bhp and the tyres were squealing exiting corners and even at the top end of 3rd in the 46 I couldn't get near them for the life of me unless it was through the corners
In terms of speed it will be negligible, I think the DCT will feel harsher in comparison which will add to the feel of the M car.
If it was me the jump would be to go to an M2C which has the s55 engine and obviously is properly set up with the diff and additional suspension components to make it handle properly. If your m140 had a birds package on it with a diff and b12s then I probably would say you wouldn't notice enough to warrant the outlay however owning an M car is about the whole package and how the car makes you feel as well as the drive and for that reason they can't really be beaten.
Having chased a few tuned m2c on a b road blast in my e46 m3 I can say they're bloody quick and very well set up. The two I was out on a run with were running near 500bhp and the tyres were squealing exiting corners and even at the top end of 3rd in the 46 I couldn't get near them for the life of me unless it was through the corners
village24 said:
If it was me the jump would be to go to an M2C which has the s55 engine and obviously is properly set up with the diff and additional suspension components to make it handle properly.
AFAIK, the suspension hardware in the M2C is identical to the M2. The part numbers are the same. I don't know what Harris means in the video by "new chassis" as the only physical difference is the carbon brace. There were rumours of rose jointing but that never happened. i went from manual m140 to dct m4 comp.
Handling way better
Economy way worse
Only had one service and it was cheap for brake fluid.
Insurance a lot dearer
Tyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
Tax - frightening but i guess that is based on the car being over 40k when new.
performance doesnt seem as 'surprising' in the M4. Doesnt seem to pull at low revs the way the m140 did.
quite feckin noisy cruising and when you dont want to be noisy. Just annoying.
Low speed manouvring is just rubbish. The dct makes its own mind up when it moves or doesnt and - in this scenario - the throttle mapping is odd as well. But maybe i just prefer manuls (i know i do)
I really really miss the hatchback of the 140. the number of times i havent been able to get something in the car has really surprised me.
for my situation i probs would have been better litchfielding / Bilstein-ing / LSD-ing the 140. horses for courses.
One last thing, edited to add, the M4 is way bigger than the M140 so maybe the M2 would have been better for me. but when i was looking, the M4's were cheaper
Oh, one last thing, the attention the M4 comp gets from 'the young uns' is surprising...this could be good, or bad, depending on context.
Handling way better
Economy way worse
Only had one service and it was cheap for brake fluid.
Insurance a lot dearer
Tyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
Tax - frightening but i guess that is based on the car being over 40k when new.
performance doesnt seem as 'surprising' in the M4. Doesnt seem to pull at low revs the way the m140 did.
quite feckin noisy cruising and when you dont want to be noisy. Just annoying.
Low speed manouvring is just rubbish. The dct makes its own mind up when it moves or doesnt and - in this scenario - the throttle mapping is odd as well. But maybe i just prefer manuls (i know i do)
I really really miss the hatchback of the 140. the number of times i havent been able to get something in the car has really surprised me.
for my situation i probs would have been better litchfielding / Bilstein-ing / LSD-ing the 140. horses for courses.
One last thing, edited to add, the M4 is way bigger than the M140 so maybe the M2 would have been better for me. but when i was looking, the M4's were cheaper
Oh, one last thing, the attention the M4 comp gets from 'the young uns' is surprising...this could be good, or bad, depending on context.
pmr01 said:
i went from manual m140 to dct m4 comp.
Tyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
I'm a massive fan of Michelin tyres, but like you I can't get over how sTyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
te the supersports are though. I think that if I hadn't had previous experience of Michelin tyres, the supersports on my M4 would have put me off Michelin tyres for life for sure. They just don't work at all on the M4 for me. I just want to add to this how inconsistent Michelin seem to be with their tyres. I didn't like the primacy 3s on the Cooper S, whereas I love the PS4 on the 370Z(and I've read that the MP4S are brilliant as well). Yet the MPSS are a poor tyre like the primacy 3 though for me. I find it fascinating how inconsistent Michelin seem to be with their tyres.
Edited by cerb4.5lee on Wednesday 5th January 09:16
pmr01 said:
Oh, one last thing, the attention the M4 comp gets from 'the young uns' is surprising...this could be good, or bad, depending on context.
I must admit my M2C gets a lot of attention (particularly when it's on the black 763's)There's been the occasional yoof, but mainly by bikers (I don't like cars, but if I was going to get one it would be this one), middle aged men (how much to insure, how quick, what power, are you worried about it getting nicked etc etc) and proper oldies who mainly go on to tell me which university their grandchildren are studying at.
My favourite was an old fella; 4'10", 80+ with a walking stick who asked me (and I quote verbatim) "Is that running 19" rims?"
But at least once a week I'll arrive back at the car in the supermarket carpark and they'll be somebody stood there looking at it, wanting to chat about it. It's been a real surprise as I've never seen it as something particularly special, but it does seem to be a very popular design. Presumably it's the proportions and haunches.
cerb4.5lee said:
pmr01 said:
i went from manual m140 to dct m4 comp.
Tyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
I'm a massive fan of Michelin tyres, but like you I can't get over how sTyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
te the supersports are though. I think that if I hadn't had previous experience of Michelin tyres, the supersports on my M4 would have put me off Michelin tyres for life for sure. They just don't work at all on the M4 for me. pmr01 said:
Oh, one last thing, the attention the M4 comp gets from 'the young uns' is surprising...this could be good, or bad, depending on context.
I heard a lad(he was about 13/14) say to his Mum and Dad what a lovely car my M4 was the other day as I drove past him in a supermarket car park(I had my window down). I thought that it was a very nice positive comment, and I didn't think that the younger generation were all that interested in cars anymore to be honest. It reminded me of something that I would've said at his age when I saw what I thought was a nice car too. Elatino1 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
pmr01 said:
i went from manual m140 to dct m4 comp.
Tyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
I'm a massive fan of Michelin tyres, but like you I can't get over how sTyres a lot dearer - i changed the MPSS for MP4S as the car was deadly with the supersports.
te the supersports are though. I think that if I hadn't had previous experience of Michelin tyres, the supersports on my M4 would have put me off Michelin tyres for life for sure. They just don't work at all on the M4 for me. I find the MPS4 on the 370Z very predictable and I know where I stand with them, I never really have a clue as to what the MPSS are going to do on the M4 though! I will definitely get rid of the MPSS on it when they are ready, and I will swap them to the MPS4S. If the MPS4S are good enough for BMW to put on the G82 M4, then they are good enough for me.
The reviews speak very highly of the MPS4S on the G82 M4 as well, and that has a lot more power/torque than the F82 M4 has.
cerb4.5lee said:
Yes and I'd like to try the MPS4S as a comparison to the MPSS. I really like the MPS4 on the 370Z, but that doesn't have as much power/torque to upset the tyres like the M4 does though. The MPSS are woeful at low temperatures for me, but I guess that you could say that about any summer tyre in the colder temperatures though.
I find the MPS4 on the 370Z very predictable and I know where I stand with them, I never really have a clue as to what the MPSS are going to do on the M4 though! I will definitely get rid of the MPSS on it when they are ready, and I will swap them to the MPS4S. If the MPS4S are good enough for BMW to put on the G82 M4, then they are good enough for me.
The reviews speak very highly of the MPS4S on the G82 M4 as well, and that has a lot more power/torque than the F82 M4 has.
Lee, the thing is the MPSS were launched more than 10 years ago and a lot of development has happened since then. I remember them on the M135i and despite the soft sidewalls they were brilliant in the dry in terms of outright grip. And in isolation they were OK in the cold/wet despite them being compromised in winter. That's because we (obviously) didn't know how good the PS4S would be ten years later, as in as grippy in the dry but way better in the cold/wet. Having said that, the Goodyear Supersport (confusing) is as good (that's what I ran at Cadwel).I find the MPS4 on the 370Z very predictable and I know where I stand with them, I never really have a clue as to what the MPSS are going to do on the M4 though! I will definitely get rid of the MPSS on it when they are ready, and I will swap them to the MPS4S. If the MPS4S are good enough for BMW to put on the G82 M4, then they are good enough for me.
The reviews speak very highly of the MPS4S on the G82 M4 as well, and that has a lot more power/torque than the F82 M4 has.
Similarly, the Goodyear F1 Asym 5 that we just fitted to the Clio (£231 for x4!!!) is supposed to be as good as the PS4.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff