Electric F1, when?
Discussion
Just an out season train of thought...
Car manufacturers across most of F1's valuable marketing territories basically have to stop selling all ICE, even hybrid, by 2035. That's only 10 years after the next scheduled PU revision (already mooted to maintain basically what we have no, minus the MGU-H).
So what will happen between the next hybrid revision and the near global cessation of ICE sales? How do they start to shift the power technologies fast enough to keep pace with a changing world?
On the one hand it's just not going to work if F1 can't promote EV in a world where the manufacturer participants can only sell EV products. They're not taking part in F1 for the fun of it, they're there to shift road cars and remain relevant.
On the other hand.. it seems very unlikely battery technology will be sufficient in such a small amount of time to power an F1 car a full race distance.
Anyone want to take a stab at predicting what steps the sport might make to keep on track and keep the manufacturers involved?
Car manufacturers across most of F1's valuable marketing territories basically have to stop selling all ICE, even hybrid, by 2035. That's only 10 years after the next scheduled PU revision (already mooted to maintain basically what we have no, minus the MGU-H).
So what will happen between the next hybrid revision and the near global cessation of ICE sales? How do they start to shift the power technologies fast enough to keep pace with a changing world?
On the one hand it's just not going to work if F1 can't promote EV in a world where the manufacturer participants can only sell EV products. They're not taking part in F1 for the fun of it, they're there to shift road cars and remain relevant.
On the other hand.. it seems very unlikely battery technology will be sufficient in such a small amount of time to power an F1 car a full race distance.
Anyone want to take a stab at predicting what steps the sport might make to keep on track and keep the manufacturers involved?
t and you'll want to see it proven For reference, the gen 3 Formula E cars will have front and rear motors, rear 350kw (470bhp) and front 250kw (335bhp). Front + rear makes 805bhp, but I'm not sure whether counting EV power works like that when it's separate front and rear motors.
https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2021/november/...
https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2021/november/...
Without noise there is no drama, watch Formula e for details, I'd have zero issues with having to have an EV whilst they rip round in screaming V8/10/12s you only have to watch the old footage on YT to hear how much better it was back then as an experience, alas that won't happen but they need to keep some sort of ICE.
"We have exclusivity until at least 2039 - so no electric F1 until then at least." But it's open to negotiation.- https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-would-need-pe...
TheDeuce said:
Just an out season train of thought...
Car manufacturers across most of F1's valuable marketing territories basically have to stop selling all ICE, even hybrid, by 2035. That's only 10 years after the next scheduled PU revision (already mooted to maintain basically what we have no, minus the MGU-H).
So what will happen between the next hybrid revision and the near global cessation of ICE sales? How do they start to shift the power technologies fast enough to keep pace with a changing world?
On the one hand it's just not going to work if F1 can't promote EV in a world where the manufacturer participants can only sell EV products. They're not taking part in F1 for the fun of it, they're there to shift road cars and remain relevant.
On the other hand.. it seems very unlikely battery technology will be sufficient in such a small amount of time to power an F1 car a full race distance.
Anyone want to take a stab at predicting what steps the sport might make to keep on track and keep the manufacturers involved?
Can still be ICE, just not petrol/diesel.Car manufacturers across most of F1's valuable marketing territories basically have to stop selling all ICE, even hybrid, by 2035. That's only 10 years after the next scheduled PU revision (already mooted to maintain basically what we have no, minus the MGU-H).
So what will happen between the next hybrid revision and the near global cessation of ICE sales? How do they start to shift the power technologies fast enough to keep pace with a changing world?
On the one hand it's just not going to work if F1 can't promote EV in a world where the manufacturer participants can only sell EV products. They're not taking part in F1 for the fun of it, they're there to shift road cars and remain relevant.
On the other hand.. it seems very unlikely battery technology will be sufficient in such a small amount of time to power an F1 car a full race distance.
Anyone want to take a stab at predicting what steps the sport might make to keep on track and keep the manufacturers involved?
Hydrogen could be an option.
It’ll happen when a car with an electric powertrain, can run the Grand Prix distance faster than the incumbent F1 car.
Perhaps we’ll see something in endurance racing first, where the rules are less proscriptive, but they’ll obviously need to sort out the refuelling problem with exchangeable battery modules.
Perhaps we’ll see something in endurance racing first, where the rules are less proscriptive, but they’ll obviously need to sort out the refuelling problem with exchangeable battery modules.
Depends what happens politically. If there is a continued push to electrify and ICE in road cars dies out, the manufacturers will push to switch to electric. If fully synthetic fuels, manufactured in a carbon neutral way are developed, then ICE will stick around for longer on the road, and also in F1. At some point there will be a standoff between manufacturers and the FIA, which could potentially see them leave the sport, changing the face of F1 completely.
oyster said:
Can still be ICE, just not petrol/diesel.
Hydrogen could be an option.
That isn't how Hydrogen works. You really wouldn't want to be sitting in something that combusts hydrogen! Hydrogen simply enables the on-board generation of electricity and it's the electricity that powers the car.Hydrogen could be an option.
There's plenty of combustible fuel options other than fossil. Bio fuels (which currently make up about 25% of the current fuel content used by F1) is one. I'm currently doing some work with a company that produces a very high-grade petrol 'type' fuel that's extracted from waste.
Milk float F1 ? - I think it would drive away (excuse the pun) much of the F1 fan base.
I'd certainly have no interest in it.
I remember watching a couple of the Formula E races on TV a while back , they sound utterly pathetic in terms of an 'event'.
No sound of the driver making gear choices, no sound of how the driver is balancing the car in the corner, no sound comparison of when each driver gets on to full power etc. A large amount of the competitiveness is taken away from the viewer and leaves only the visuals.
All you get is a weird whistling noise from the TV which sounds like my wife endlessly doing the cleaning with her Dyson.
Resist, keep swampy and his tree huggers out of the sport.
I'd certainly have no interest in it.
I remember watching a couple of the Formula E races on TV a while back , they sound utterly pathetic in terms of an 'event'.
No sound of the driver making gear choices, no sound of how the driver is balancing the car in the corner, no sound comparison of when each driver gets on to full power etc. A large amount of the competitiveness is taken away from the viewer and leaves only the visuals.
All you get is a weird whistling noise from the TV which sounds like my wife endlessly doing the cleaning with her Dyson.
Resist, keep swampy and his tree huggers out of the sport.
StevieBee said:
That isn't how Hydrogen works. You really wouldn't want to be sitting in something that combusts hydrogen! Hydrogen simply enables the on-board generation of electricity and it's the electricity that powers the car.
There's plenty of combustible fuel options other than fossil. Bio fuels (which currently make up about 25% of the current fuel content used by F1) is one. I'm currently doing some work with a company that produces a very high-grade petrol 'type' fuel that's extracted from waste.
Works both ways. There are hydrogen powered ICE vehicles and there are hydrogen (via a fuel cell) electric vehicles.There's plenty of combustible fuel options other than fossil. Bio fuels (which currently make up about 25% of the current fuel content used by F1) is one. I'm currently doing some work with a company that produces a very high-grade petrol 'type' fuel that's extracted from waste.
Either way hydrogen is not the wonder green fuel so many seem to think it is. Expensive (in both monetary and energy terms), dangerous and difficult to transport and store.
Roofless Toothless said:
It would be great for one lap shoot outs though….
So leave them to hill climbs, rallycross and unofficial lap record attempts. When they can run 300km in an hour and a half, let’s talk.
Meanwhile, FE is the worst possible advert for electric racing, all about ‘the show’ and little in the way of new technology being developed. I know they’re getting there slowly, but they really should have made the drivetrains full prototypes, with cutting-edge batteries and motors - that might occasionally catch fire. That Mercedes have seen enough, says it all.
I think F1 ultimately has the choice between going electric or dwindling into insignificance. Which it will choose is not clear but we're ten years away from a decision needing to be made anyway. A lot can change in 10 years.
FE came too early IMO, when the technology wasn't good enough to make it work. The gen-3 cars sound a bit more promising.
FE came too early IMO, when the technology wasn't good enough to make it work. The gen-3 cars sound a bit more promising.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff