Question for powerfully built directors - Level 7 training
Discussion
For the last couple of years I've been getting more and more interested in the management/leadership roles within the organisation. This is now been reflected in my job role where 40% of my time is now spent in none direct 'shop floor' work and my line manager to a degree is at the director/executive board reporting level.
I have very limited experience in proper management training, though I have had decent (Masters level) leadership training. The leadership training I can see has had a direct impact on my job performance.
My 40th birthday is coming up, and I would be lying if I said I didn't see myself with a decision make role on an Exc board within the next 5 years.
My work time at present is more than a little pressured for all kinds of reasons, but an opportunity seems to have come up to go for a funded apprenticeship in 'Level 7 - Senior leader' course.
Am use to doing additional post graduate courses in additional to my paid job, and I have family friends whom are in finance so aware of things like MBAs. But I certainly don't need any more qualifications for the sake of it, and all of us only have a limited amount of energy. So the risk of taking on additional 'unnecessary' work is a distraction from my paid roles.
For those of you on Exec boards, are these kinds of apprenticeship or Level-7 qualifications (no idea even what that means), seen as mandatory for progression up the organisation chain? Or would delivering on major projects as the responsible SRO be seen as preferable as it shows direct real-life experience? Or both are needed/desired?
https://findapprenticeshiptraining.apprenticeships...
I have very limited experience in proper management training, though I have had decent (Masters level) leadership training. The leadership training I can see has had a direct impact on my job performance.
My 40th birthday is coming up, and I would be lying if I said I didn't see myself with a decision make role on an Exc board within the next 5 years.
My work time at present is more than a little pressured for all kinds of reasons, but an opportunity seems to have come up to go for a funded apprenticeship in 'Level 7 - Senior leader' course.
Am use to doing additional post graduate courses in additional to my paid job, and I have family friends whom are in finance so aware of things like MBAs. But I certainly don't need any more qualifications for the sake of it, and all of us only have a limited amount of energy. So the risk of taking on additional 'unnecessary' work is a distraction from my paid roles.
For those of you on Exec boards, are these kinds of apprenticeship or Level-7 qualifications (no idea even what that means), seen as mandatory for progression up the organisation chain? Or would delivering on major projects as the responsible SRO be seen as preferable as it shows direct real-life experience? Or both are needed/desired?
https://findapprenticeshiptraining.apprenticeships...
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 18th December 07:19
I think that is just generic funding from the govt in the apprenticeship scheme, though christ know why a CxO needs to go on an apprentice portal.
You don't need one in any company I have seen to be an exec. Most of the execs I know are Degree + Masters (including MBA in that) or Degree + accounting qualification. A couple don't have a degree.
At that level it is all about experience, ambition, ability to lead, personal charisma and able to dance corporate politics.
The most useful courses I have done (I report to an exec board member of a large company) are:
Personally I'd recommend that you find an executive who is willing to be your mentor and coach, who can give you insights into other parts of the business and help you understand what the company is looking for in their future execs. Then build your plan for personal development. This might be courses, or it might be rotating around some other parts of the business to develop your portfolio of skills.
You don't need one in any company I have seen to be an exec. Most of the execs I know are Degree + Masters (including MBA in that) or Degree + accounting qualification. A couple don't have a degree.
At that level it is all about experience, ambition, ability to lead, personal charisma and able to dance corporate politics.
The most useful courses I have done (I report to an exec board member of a large company) are:
- Collaborative coaching (leadership and team development)
- Boardroom presence (personal effectiveness and impact)
Personally I'd recommend that you find an executive who is willing to be your mentor and coach, who can give you insights into other parts of the business and help you understand what the company is looking for in their future execs. Then build your plan for personal development. This might be courses, or it might be rotating around some other parts of the business to develop your portfolio of skills.
gangzoom said:
For the last couple of years I've been getting more and more interested in the management/leadership roles within the organisation. This is now been reflected in my job role where 40% of my time is now spent in none direct 'shop floor' work and my line manager to a degree is at the director/executive board reporting level.
I have very limited experience in proper management training, though I have had decent (Masters level) leadership training. The leadership training I can see has had a direct impact on my job performance.
My 40th birthday is coming up, and I would be lying if I said I didn't see myself with a decision make role on an Exc board within the next 5 years.
My work time at present is more than a little pressured for all kinds of reasons, but an opportunity seems to have come up to go for a funded apprenticeship in 'Level 7 - Senior leader' course.
Am use to doing additional post graduate courses in additional to my paid job, and I have family friends whom are in finance so aware of things like MBAs. But I certainly don't need any more qualifications for the sake of it, and all of us only have a limited amount of energy. So the risk of taking on additional 'unnecessary' work is a distraction from my paid roles.
For those of you on Exec boards, are these kinds of apprenticeship or Level-7 qualifications (no idea even what that means), seen as mandatory for progression up the organisation chain? Or would delivering on major projects as the responsible SRO be seen as preferable as it shows direct real-life experience? Or both are needed/desired?
https://findapprenticeshiptraining.apprenticeships...
Both preferably. Having the practical experience is essential for a senior manager but to make the step up to Board level they need to have wider-organisation experience. As well as being a SME they should ideally have understanding of HR, Finance, Operations, Marketing, Sales. The level 7 is good, and we've funded several MBAs using our Apprentice Levy. However MBAs are no longer permitted as an Apprenticeship.I have very limited experience in proper management training, though I have had decent (Masters level) leadership training. The leadership training I can see has had a direct impact on my job performance.
My 40th birthday is coming up, and I would be lying if I said I didn't see myself with a decision make role on an Exc board within the next 5 years.
My work time at present is more than a little pressured for all kinds of reasons, but an opportunity seems to have come up to go for a funded apprenticeship in 'Level 7 - Senior leader' course.
Am use to doing additional post graduate courses in additional to my paid job, and I have family friends whom are in finance so aware of things like MBAs. But I certainly don't need any more qualifications for the sake of it, and all of us only have a limited amount of energy. So the risk of taking on additional 'unnecessary' work is a distraction from my paid roles.
For those of you on Exec boards, are these kinds of apprenticeship or Level-7 qualifications (no idea even what that means), seen as mandatory for progression up the organisation chain? Or would delivering on major projects as the responsible SRO be seen as preferable as it shows direct real-life experience? Or both are needed/desired?
https://findapprenticeshiptraining.apprenticeships...
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 18th December 07:19
If you can get it fully funded (and you are supposed to get at least one day a week off to study) then i would go for it.
Thanks for the comments, sounds like it's the right thing to do. Am pretty certain it's fully funded, but I doubt I would get any time released from the day job.
However, now that I officially have to chair some decision-making boards, and have been named SRO on major projects even though I can do the front line engagement and process mapping stuff with my eyes closed the finance, HR, governance etc are areas where I know I need to develop.
Quite looking forward to the initial scoping meeting in Jan 2022, never thought I would get interested in management but cannot complain about having a job that makes me excited about going into work everyday
.
However, now that I officially have to chair some decision-making boards, and have been named SRO on major projects even though I can do the front line engagement and process mapping stuff with my eyes closed the finance, HR, governance etc are areas where I know I need to develop.
Quite looking forward to the initial scoping meeting in Jan 2022, never thought I would get interested in management but cannot complain about having a job that makes me excited about going into work everyday
.gangzoom said:
Thanks for the comments, sounds like it's the right thing to do. Am pretty certain it's fully funded, but I doubt I would get any time released from the day job.
The issue with the Apprenticeship is that, as well as effectively doing a Masters-level degree on a parttime basis, you also need to prove various competencies to complete the Apprenticeship side. Its not difficult, especially if you're already in a fairly senior role. However it takes a shedload of time. Employers are happy to approve these because it doesn't cost them anything but they ARE supposed to give you one day a week off the job. (IIRC you are actually meant to record the amount off OTJ training).If you don't get day-release you'll be spending a lot of your weekends with your head in the books. Level 7 is pretty tough going.
vaud said:
At that level it is all about experience, ambition, ability to lead, personal charisma and able to dance corporate politics.
The most useful courses I have done (I report to an exec board member of a large company) are:
Personally I'd recommend that you find an executive who is willing to be your mentor and coach, who can give you insights into other parts of the business and help you understand what the company is looking for in their future execs. Then build your plan for personal development. This might be courses, or it might be rotating around some other parts of the business to develop your portfolio of skills.
^^^ This.The most useful courses I have done (I report to an exec board member of a large company) are:
- Collaborative coaching (leadership and team development)
- Boardroom presence (personal effectiveness and impact)
Personally I'd recommend that you find an executive who is willing to be your mentor and coach, who can give you insights into other parts of the business and help you understand what the company is looking for in their future execs. Then build your plan for personal development. This might be courses, or it might be rotating around some other parts of the business to develop your portfolio of skills.
Thanks for the guidance, am not afraid of working at weekends etc, however, I did have a 'moment' today questioning if I want more managerial responsibility.
Currently, I have a really good work vs life balance, been able to do the majority of school pick/drop off, infact the few times I haven't been able to do is project-related board meetings.
Taking on extra unnecessary work seems like a mad 40th birthday present to myself, but lets see how I feel after Xmas.
Currently, I have a really good work vs life balance, been able to do the majority of school pick/drop off, infact the few times I haven't been able to do is project-related board meetings.
Taking on extra unnecessary work seems like a mad 40th birthday present to myself, but lets see how I feel after Xmas
.Apprenticeships do cost the employer, in that they should be ‘funding’ your ‘20% of their normal working hours training’ and may also, depending upon their size, be contributing to the levy.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-apprenticeship-lev...
https://www.gov.uk/employing-an-apprentice/pay-and...
Re the level 7 training; assuming you’ve looked at the curriculum and it meets your requirements, then it’s highly likely to add value to your competencies.
Might also be worth considering Chartered Director via the Institute of Directors.
https://www.iod.com/chartered-director
Good luck!
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pay-apprenticeship-lev...
https://www.gov.uk/employing-an-apprentice/pay-and...
Re the level 7 training; assuming you’ve looked at the curriculum and it meets your requirements, then it’s highly likely to add value to your competencies.
Might also be worth considering Chartered Director via the Institute of Directors.
https://www.iod.com/chartered-director
Good luck!
Thanks for all the info, had introduction/information even this week, have decided to go for it, got my line manager sign off already, and I meet all the entry level criteria with no issues.
The topics covered are quite new to me, I've certainly not had any formal training in Performance Management or Work force planning.
MSc Level is 3 years if appropriate, initial course is over 2 years, quite looking forwards to it........spending evenings/weekends completing non mandatory assessments, I need to get out more.
The topics covered are quite new to me, I've certainly not had any formal training in Performance Management or Work force planning.
MSc Level is 3 years if appropriate, initial course is over 2 years, quite looking forwards to it........spending evenings/weekends completing non mandatory assessments, I need to get out more
.No expert in your course but my experience is that management qualifications don’t influence hiring of execs much. However, where they can be of value is in giving skills and confidence, and therefore the ability to be more successful in a role. Plus, as you say, learning new stuff is enjoyable.
I’m a CEO and don’t have a business qualification to my name. However, I read a lot, and have found high quality coaching from time to time invaluable. The only course I’d absolutely recommend to anyone heading for senior leadership is actually a Mindfulness course. I think the extra personal mastery and resilience is very helpful given the range and scale of demands most execs face.
I’m a CEO and don’t have a business qualification to my name. However, I read a lot, and have found high quality coaching from time to time invaluable. The only course I’d absolutely recommend to anyone heading for senior leadership is actually a Mindfulness course. I think the extra personal mastery and resilience is very helpful given the range and scale of demands most execs face.
So after lots of getting up at 5am to write assignments this arrived in the post . Still have one dissertation and presentation left before full Level 7 is signed off. Quietly pleased as its the first time in 40years+ of been alive I've ever gotten more than a pass at any thing, and with the house renovations taking up alot of mental effort last year I didn't exactly have loads of spare time!!!
I can honestly say the course has benefited the work role, challenging times for publc sector organisations, but the best opportunities to advance/develop new ways of doing things comes from adversity. I'm now lucky enough to have a voice that is head and has influence at the Exec board, as the saying goes 'The S**t is about to become real'.
I would say this is last academic qualifications I'll do but that would be lying, not 100% what I'll look into next, but learning makes the day job more fun.
. Still have one dissertation and presentation left before full Level 7 is signed off. Quietly pleased as its the first time in 40years+ of been alive I've ever gotten more than a pass at any thing, and with the house renovations taking up alot of mental effort last year I didn't exactly have loads of spare time!!! I can honestly say the course has benefited the work role, challenging times for publc sector organisations, but the best opportunities to advance/develop new ways of doing things comes from adversity. I'm now lucky enough to have a voice that is head and has influence at the Exec board, as the saying goes 'The S**t is about to become real'.
I would say this is last academic qualifications I'll do but that would be lying, not 100% what I'll look into next, but learning makes the day job more fun.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 13th March 04:26
Congratulations
In terms of "what's next" have you considered going for the full MBA?
https://www.cardiffmet.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/...
In terms of "what's next" have you considered going for the full MBA?
https://www.cardiffmet.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/...
Congratulations! And maybe just in time! I’m aware of a number of HE organisations pulling their level 7 apprenticeship courses:
‘…employers are being asked to rebalance their funding for apprenticeships, asking them to invest in younger workers. This will also involve businesses funding more of their level 7 apprenticeships – equivalent to a master’s degree and often accessed by older or already well qualified employees – outside of the levy.’
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-...
‘…employers are being asked to rebalance their funding for apprenticeships, asking them to invest in younger workers. This will also involve businesses funding more of their level 7 apprenticeships – equivalent to a master’s degree and often accessed by older or already well qualified employees – outside of the levy.’
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-...
This government is certainly not been scared to make changes. There is a palable state of anxiety in all the VSM groups I engage with in the public sector. However opportunities for transformation are in our hands, it's a matter of balancing bravey against recklessness. One senior leader in a blog quoted a famous Antonio Gramsci translation which I'm not sure anyone understands the context, but meaning is in the eye of the reader.
I put the quote into Co-pilot and asked it what it meant....quite apt in many ways.
I put the quote into Co-pilot and asked it what it meant....quite apt in many ways.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 16th March 07:55
I am doing a level 7 leadership apprenticeship and at the end of can be extended and turned into an MBA.
To paint the picture, I am a "head of function" in a top end FTSE250 industrial sector company. I work with the management board regularly and have submitted a number of papers the non-exec sub committees. We are in a matrix with the operational facilities and so we have our own resources centrally for some tasks, but increasingly have to influence the factories to work on-line with global standards.
I had no formal training in a number of areas, and I have found it useful - organisational values, strategy, workforce planning etc.
Some of the course content, in areas that I am familiar e.g. procurement, finance shows to be a little basic, but my feeling is that this type of training would be widely beneficial for mid-senior management to appreciate the bigger picture. The value comes in the assignments where you have to think critically about your own organisation and how it could improve. It is masters level so many also find it hard to research relevant academic papers and reference them in your arguments in the assignments. Again this is where the value comes from as much as the taught materials.
I have written a new purpose and mission for my function and am going to my board member with a proposal for a restructure so we are better resourced to achieve our objectives. I wouldn't be thinking like this without the training. We'll see how it plays out.
The time commitment is tough. For a degree apprentiship funded by the training Levy, they want the company to commit to 6 hours "on the job" training or coursework per week. That is difficult commitment. I think most are released (for 3 days every two months) for the modules delivered at uni, then do the assignments in their own time.
Being a listed company I think it is easier for me to use real examples in the assignments. I have a lot of resources to draw on. It is harder for my course mates in SMEs to have the exposure or relevance.
I recommend, but I it is not some golden ticket to the c-suite. It might make you more confident with wider insight to apply to getting those roles, perhaps more rounded than others on the same path.
Also you probably get out what you put in. E.g. commitment to academic research to gain the deeper understanding.
It would be a lot easier without a toddler to look after!!
To paint the picture, I am a "head of function" in a top end FTSE250 industrial sector company. I work with the management board regularly and have submitted a number of papers the non-exec sub committees. We are in a matrix with the operational facilities and so we have our own resources centrally for some tasks, but increasingly have to influence the factories to work on-line with global standards.
I had no formal training in a number of areas, and I have found it useful - organisational values, strategy, workforce planning etc.
Some of the course content, in areas that I am familiar e.g. procurement, finance shows to be a little basic, but my feeling is that this type of training would be widely beneficial for mid-senior management to appreciate the bigger picture. The value comes in the assignments where you have to think critically about your own organisation and how it could improve. It is masters level so many also find it hard to research relevant academic papers and reference them in your arguments in the assignments. Again this is where the value comes from as much as the taught materials.
I have written a new purpose and mission for my function and am going to my board member with a proposal for a restructure so we are better resourced to achieve our objectives. I wouldn't be thinking like this without the training. We'll see how it plays out.
The time commitment is tough. For a degree apprentiship funded by the training Levy, they want the company to commit to 6 hours "on the job" training or coursework per week. That is difficult commitment. I think most are released (for 3 days every two months) for the modules delivered at uni, then do the assignments in their own time.
Being a listed company I think it is easier for me to use real examples in the assignments. I have a lot of resources to draw on. It is harder for my course mates in SMEs to have the exposure or relevance.
I recommend, but I it is not some golden ticket to the c-suite. It might make you more confident with wider insight to apply to getting those roles, perhaps more rounded than others on the same path.
Also you probably get out what you put in. E.g. commitment to academic research to gain the deeper understanding.
It would be a lot easier without a toddler to look after!!
Oops congrats!! Didn't realize this was an old thread!!
Do you think it has changed a lot of how you think and things you do at work??
I am only 3 modules in... Another 18 months to go!!
I have the option at the end to pay £3K from my own pocket and do a 10,000 word report to get the MBA from the business school... Do you have that option?
Do you think it has changed a lot of how you think and things you do at work??
I am only 3 modules in... Another 18 months to go!!
I have the option at the end to pay £3K from my own pocket and do a 10,000 word report to get the MBA from the business school... Do you have that option?
Edited by Glade on Sunday 16th March 09:20
^Fun times ahead .
I have enjoyed the learning, having worked only ever in the public sector some of the concepts introduced were quite different from what I'm use to. I was also in a position where the day job complements the learning, and I have gone through a couple of audio books to explore areas I was more interested in.
I'm not 100% sure yet about the full MBA, I've already got a PhD post my main Uni degree and a couple of other diplomas, another 10k word dissertation isn't end of the world but I'm not how much it would add to my learning, I certainly don't need another academic qualification for the sake of it. My career progression however isn't linked to getting any more qualifications, the learning now is mainly driven by my own interest.
Good luck with course, there is no reason why anyone couldn't get through it if they put the effort in, we had our house full renovated during the time I was doing most of the course work. Time management was a challenge at times as I also do most of school drop offs, but when there is a will, there is a way.
.I have enjoyed the learning, having worked only ever in the public sector some of the concepts introduced were quite different from what I'm use to. I was also in a position where the day job complements the learning, and I have gone through a couple of audio books to explore areas I was more interested in.
I'm not 100% sure yet about the full MBA, I've already got a PhD post my main Uni degree and a couple of other diplomas, another 10k word dissertation isn't end of the world but I'm not how much it would add to my learning, I certainly don't need another academic qualification for the sake of it. My career progression however isn't linked to getting any more qualifications, the learning now is mainly driven by my own interest.
Good luck with course, there is no reason why anyone couldn't get through it if they put the effort in, we had our house full renovated during the time I was doing most of the course work. Time management was a challenge at times as I also do most of school drop offs, but when there is a will, there is a way.
Glade said:
Oops congrats!! Didn't realize this was an old thread!!
Do you think it has changed a lot of how you think and things you do at work??
I am only 3 modules in... Another 18 months to go!!
I have the option at the end to pay £3K from my own pocket and do a 10,000 word report to get the MBA from the business school... Do you have that option?
Just out of interest - what sector do you work in and how "senior" are you currently?Do you think it has changed a lot of how you think and things you do at work??
I am only 3 modules in... Another 18 months to go!!
I have the option at the end to pay £3K from my own pocket and do a 10,000 word report to get the MBA from the business school... Do you have that option?
Edited by Glade on Sunday 16th March 09:20
IMHO for somebody interested in working at Board level and for the sake of £3k it's well worth doing. Not only is it mentally stimulating it will help make your CV stand out. I'm not saying it's essential but it will help you stand out from non-MBA candidates.
The time requirement is quite big - i was lucky in that my wife did all the school runs
Agree £3k isn't alot to pay out for something equivalent to a MsC. Regardless of my own learning etc, every extra qualification I've gained has helped me in interviews/conversations.
Time is the much more important thing to consider, I recon some formal training in coaching or counselling might actually beneficial for team development/management.
I'm also tempted by legal training but the amount of work needed for that is on a different level and I'm not entirely clear on what options it opens up as someone who will be closer to 50 than 40 when it's all done.
Time is the much more important thing to consider, I recon some formal training in coaching or counselling might actually beneficial for team development/management.
I'm also tempted by legal training but the amount of work needed for that is on a different level and I'm not entirely clear on what options it opens up as someone who will be closer to 50 than 40 when it's all done.
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