Why do people care about the WDC more than the WCC?
Discussion
It seems pretty obvious to me that the real battle in F1 is in car development, and the difference in performance of the cars has a much larger influence on race results that driver skill.
I have always felt that drivers championship battles were pretty silly to care so much about when they are competing against each other with vastly different equipment, yet people portray it as if it is the same as a match between two rivalling tennis players.
So what if Schumacher won 13 races in 2004, was his performance better than Raikkonen's or JPM's? It is impossible to say because the WDC is in no way a comparison of driver performance.
Yet now in 2021 it seems as if teams themselves care far more about the WDC by put all of the resources into the number 1 car. We may as well have a grid in which each team only runs a single car, or a points system in which only the best driver of each team scores points.
I believe F1 is fundamentally a team sport in which the differences between driver performance only play a small factor, yet for some reason the WDC is presented as the main show.
I have always felt that drivers championship battles were pretty silly to care so much about when they are competing against each other with vastly different equipment, yet people portray it as if it is the same as a match between two rivalling tennis players.
So what if Schumacher won 13 races in 2004, was his performance better than Raikkonen's or JPM's? It is impossible to say because the WDC is in no way a comparison of driver performance.
Yet now in 2021 it seems as if teams themselves care far more about the WDC by put all of the resources into the number 1 car. We may as well have a grid in which each team only runs a single car, or a points system in which only the best driver of each team scores points.
I believe F1 is fundamentally a team sport in which the differences between driver performance only play a small factor, yet for some reason the WDC is presented as the main show.
Everyone talks about the WDC (rightly so) but for teams, owners, board members and team personnel it's all about WCC. Many many tens of millions are involved as well as hundreds of staff, contractors and several factories for the bigger teams.
Toto has had a phenomenal 8 year run from that point of view, to maintain that success consistently is quite something and why Mercedes will not leave despite what people on Pistonheads think.
Toto has had a phenomenal 8 year run from that point of view, to maintain that success consistently is quite something and why Mercedes will not leave despite what people on Pistonheads think.
cgt2 said:
Everyone talks about the WDC (rightly so) but for teams, owners, board members and team personnel it's all about WCC. Many many tens of millions are involved as well as hundreds of staff, contractors and several factories for the bigger teams.
Toto has had a phenomenal 8 year run from that point of view, to maintain that success consistently is quite something and why Mercedes will not leave despite what people on Pistonheads think.
Why do you think it is rightly so? My main point is that I think it is wrongly so. Toto has had a phenomenal 8 year run from that point of view, to maintain that success consistently is quite something and why Mercedes will not leave despite what people on Pistonheads think.
cgt2 said:
I've always been more interested in the nuances between drivers than cars though I'm sure many have the opposite view.
Yes, but I believe that many casual fans are under the false impression that the driver is the determining factor when in reality it is not the case. If Hakkinen had happened to have been the one at Ferrari he would be the one to win 7 world titles so fans are very silly for thinking that Schumacher is the greatest simply because of his drivers titles. It is a team sport through and through and the biggest factor in a drivers careers success at this level is simply being at the right team at the time. LukeBrown66 said:
OK let me ask this, can you remember the constructors world champions right the way back to 1950? I can remember all the drivers, but could only guess at most teams winners. That's is why.
But that simply goes back to my original point, why should it be the WDC that gets so much more attention?DOCG said:
I believe F1 is fundamentally a team sport in which the differences between driver performance only play a small factor, yet for some reason the WDC is presented as the main show.
Max and Lewis are further ahead of their team mates than their team mates are ahead of other cars.Put it another way, had it been Hamilton in a Merc against Albon and Perez at Red Bull, would we have had a close finish to the WDC?
DOCG said:
cgt2 said:
Everyone talks about the WDC (rightly so) but for teams, owners, board members and team personnel it's all about WCC. Many many tens of millions are involved as well as hundreds of staff, contractors and several factories for the bigger teams.
Toto has had a phenomenal 8 year run from that point of view, to maintain that success consistently is quite something and why Mercedes will not leave despite what people on Pistonheads think.
Why do you think it is rightly so? My main point is that I think it is wrongly so. Toto has had a phenomenal 8 year run from that point of view, to maintain that success consistently is quite something and why Mercedes will not leave despite what people on Pistonheads think.
To most people, they all look the same.
Joe punter doesn't care about the car, but might know the driver with the Merc star on his hat.
and I don't believe for a minute that Toto would sacrifice the WDC for the WCC but we can see by the way they used Bottas throughout the season, that they would sacrifice the WCC for the WDC.
It brings in the real money. Not the micky mouse sums in prize money etc, but the real money in marketing their product.
Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 14th December 06:06
It's because it's not really a team sport, at least visibly, between the garages. Or Perez would have done even more on Sunday. Certainly not a pure team sport where there is no rivalry within the team and you win or lose together. One driver stands on the top of the podium at the end of the race and their "teammate" doesn't stand with them.
For much of the sport's history it was all about the team - even after 1947 when the Driver's Championship was established. Drivers were often obligated to provide their car to the leading driver in a team if the leading driver's car had failed.
F1 is very much a team sport in the same way football or rugby is but with a greater dependance upon a single player within the team. It's these players that people watch and follow regardless of the team so there's a natural tendency for these to become the focus of attention.
F1 is very much a team sport in the same way football or rugby is but with a greater dependance upon a single player within the team. It's these players that people watch and follow regardless of the team so there's a natural tendency for these to become the focus of attention.
DOCG said:
If Hakkinen had happened to have been the one at Ferrari he would be the one to win 7 world titles so fans are very silly for thinking that Schumacher is the greatest simply because of his drivers titles. It is a team sport through and through and the biggest factor in a drivers careers success at this level is simply being at the right team at the time.
That may have been the case but is by no means as certain as your post suggests. Schumacher was able to build a team around him within the team and influence the design of the cars and tyres to suit him to levels few, if any other driver attained. Would Hakkinen have commanded the same respect and ability to do the same? Who knows? But because it remains a team sport the idea of plug-and-play drivers doesn't always hold true. Look at Vettel at Ferrari, Ricciardo at McLaren. I don't really care about mercedes, or redbull et al, they're just big companies that I'm not interested in actively supporting. My opinion changes a bit when talking about more "privateer" teams but can any of the remaining teams be called that now? Williams was sold to an investment group last year.
F1 is just mainly about the individuals for me, even when they work as a team.
In contrast, some sports cars series are all about the team for me, especially when 3 drivers can share a car, and a team having 2 cars, AND the more privateer nature of some of those series.
F1 is just mainly about the individuals for me, even when they work as a team.
In contrast, some sports cars series are all about the team for me, especially when 3 drivers can share a car, and a team having 2 cars, AND the more privateer nature of some of those series.
Drivers do make a difference though, just look at how LH & MV ran away from the rest of the field this year - including their own team mates. In many races they were pulling out almost a second a lap on the rest of them. (Of course they needed the right equipment under them to do that)
Also, the WDC has a longer vintage than the WCC. The first year of the WCC was 1950. The first year of the WCC was 1958.
Before World War 2 there was also a European Drivers' Championship (which was based on GP wins together with some other events) so the history of having a championship for drivers goes back a long way in motor racing history.
Finally, I would suggest that the WCC is less interesting today than it was in previous eras because the era of a team founded and led by a larger than life personality such as Frank Williams, Ken Tyrell, Colin Chapman or Enzo Ferrari are now gone and the teams are now subsets of large, and mainly faceless, corporate entities.
Before World War 2 there was also a European Drivers' Championship (which was based on GP wins together with some other events) so the history of having a championship for drivers goes back a long way in motor racing history.
Finally, I would suggest that the WCC is less interesting today than it was in previous eras because the era of a team founded and led by a larger than life personality such as Frank Williams, Ken Tyrell, Colin Chapman or Enzo Ferrari are now gone and the teams are now subsets of large, and mainly faceless, corporate entities.
It's a matter of personal choice. Both championships are up for grabs at the same time, so people can support a team or an individual as they want. The drivers championship gets all the headlines, so I suppose that's what most people are more interested in. But I also know people who are mad Ferrari fans and will support whoever is driving for them.
Some support is on national lines - say following a driver or a team from your own country.
Some support is on national lines - say following a driver or a team from your own country.
Eric Mc said:
Also, the WDC has a longer vintage than the WCC. The first year of the WCC was 1950. The first year of the WCC was 1958.
Before World War 2 there was also a European Drivers' Championship (which was based on GP wins together with some other events) so the history of having a championship for drivers goes back a long way in motor racing history.
Finally, I would suggest that the WCC is less interesting today than it was in previous eras because the era of a team founded and led by a larger than life personality such as Frank Williams, Ken Tyrell, Colin Chapman or Enzo Ferrari are now gone and the teams are now subsets of large, and mainly faceless, corporate entities.
The first World Championship was in 1925 and was for manufacturers only, not drivers.Before World War 2 there was also a European Drivers' Championship (which was based on GP wins together with some other events) so the history of having a championship for drivers goes back a long way in motor racing history.
Finally, I would suggest that the WCC is less interesting today than it was in previous eras because the era of a team founded and led by a larger than life personality such as Frank Williams, Ken Tyrell, Colin Chapman or Enzo Ferrari are now gone and the teams are now subsets of large, and mainly faceless, corporate entities.
thegreenhell said:
The first World Championship was in 1925 and was for manufacturers only, not drivers.
Did it continue after 1925 and who won in each year?My knowledge of the current set up is that the World Drivers' Championship started in 1950 (Farina being the first champion) and the Constructors' Championship in 1958, with Vanwall being the first winners.
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