Steering feel - 991.1 gt3 vs 991.2 S
Discussion
Hello,
I’m wondering if anyone has experience in both these cars. I have a 991.2 S and went for this model vs the 991.1 as I found the steering very ‘glassy’ and lifeless. Whilst the 991.2 S is no Lotus it’s was definitely better. Been looking at GT3s for a while now however the 991.2 version is out of my price range now but the 991.1 is still within though no manual option.
It’s pretty much impossible to test drive these cars and whilst I have driven a 991.2 Gt3 (friends) I’ve not tried the 991.1 version.
Could anyone comment of this who might have experience and help me out?
Unfortunately after a lifetime of driving Lotus I’m become very used to lots of feedback and is my preference. The difference between my S and friends gt3 was very large and remarkably better.
I’m not trying to compare the 991.1 gt3 to my S as clearly they are nothing alike , but specifically just want to know about the steering
Many thanks
I’m wondering if anyone has experience in both these cars. I have a 991.2 S and went for this model vs the 991.1 as I found the steering very ‘glassy’ and lifeless. Whilst the 991.2 S is no Lotus it’s was definitely better. Been looking at GT3s for a while now however the 991.2 version is out of my price range now but the 991.1 is still within though no manual option.
It’s pretty much impossible to test drive these cars and whilst I have driven a 991.2 Gt3 (friends) I’ve not tried the 991.1 version.
Could anyone comment of this who might have experience and help me out?
Unfortunately after a lifetime of driving Lotus I’m become very used to lots of feedback and is my preference. The difference between my S and friends gt3 was very large and remarkably better.
I’m not trying to compare the 991.1 gt3 to my S as clearly they are nothing alike , but specifically just want to know about the steering
Many thanks
991.1 GT3 steering is good but the 991.2 is better. Bear in mind some 991.1. GT3s came on Dunlops not Michelins whereas most UK 991.2 GT3s have Michelins 2s improves over the over the gen 1 all of which will influence steering feedback as will the tweaks to the gen 2s suspension with helper springs etc. also aero which could have a minimal effect. Furthermore the gen 1 has a larger steering wheel which may influence your thoughts.
I have a 992 C2S, and had a few weeks experience in a 991.1 GT3 a while back. Specifically regarding the steering, I don't think there's much in it. You would need to be in a 997 to notice a similarity to a Lotus but I am guessing you knew that..
It's strange how steering feel has been deemed irrelevant by sports car manufacturers. It's been more than a decade since a Ferrari had any kind of steering feel, and it hasn't harmed sales. It annoys me, though!
It's strange how steering feel has been deemed irrelevant by sports car manufacturers. It's been more than a decade since a Ferrari had any kind of steering feel, and it hasn't harmed sales. It annoys me, though!
I sold my 991.2 S for a 991.2 GT3 a couple of months ago, so here are my thoughts....
I had my 991.2 S for three and a half years and used it as a daily for a while. It was my first 911 so I didn't have prior Porsche experience to compare it to. That said I also have a Caterham at home so know what proper steering feel is. The S was obviously nowhere near as good and only ever really came alive through the wheel when really pushing on. After 3 years I took it to Centre Gravity who genuinely transformed the whole feel of the car with a full geo setup. I couldn't believe it was the same car. I could have gone further with GT3 lower arms etc but for me there was no point.
If you're wondering if your car can feel any better than it is then don't hesitate with speaking with Centre Gravity.
I'd expected the GT3 o be different, but it is on another level. It feels like a grown up Caterham and the steering is alive all the time. Some of this will be setup (as done by RPMTechnik before delivery) but the suspension components and Cup 2 tyres complete the picture. I don't think you'll get anywhere close unless you change many bits on your S.
I had my 991.2 S for three and a half years and used it as a daily for a while. It was my first 911 so I didn't have prior Porsche experience to compare it to. That said I also have a Caterham at home so know what proper steering feel is. The S was obviously nowhere near as good and only ever really came alive through the wheel when really pushing on. After 3 years I took it to Centre Gravity who genuinely transformed the whole feel of the car with a full geo setup. I couldn't believe it was the same car. I could have gone further with GT3 lower arms etc but for me there was no point.
If you're wondering if your car can feel any better than it is then don't hesitate with speaking with Centre Gravity.
I'd expected the GT3 o be different, but it is on another level. It feels like a grown up Caterham and the steering is alive all the time. Some of this will be setup (as done by RPMTechnik before delivery) but the suspension components and Cup 2 tyres complete the picture. I don't think you'll get anywhere close unless you change many bits on your S.
nw942 said:
I drove a 991.2 GT3 for a day at PEC and the steering didn't feel noticeably different to my 991.1 GT3.
Incidentally I was trying to decide whether spending another ~ £40k on the 991.2 was worth it in terms of the overall driving experience and decided it wasn't.
Whilst both the 991.1 and 991.2 engines both have 9k rev limits they really are different on many levels not just far better stock sound from the gen 2. Incidentally I was trying to decide whether spending another ~ £40k on the 991.2 was worth it in terms of the overall driving experience and decided it wasn't.
The gen 1 torque and power drop offs are notably greater at higher revs compared to the gen 2 which teally thrives on higher revs.
Gen 2 is truly a masterpiece of an engine and almost worth the extra £40k alone. Especially when mated to the superb manual gearbox which of course isn't an option with the gen 1 being pdk only.
av185 said:
nw942 said:
I drove a 991.2 GT3 for a day at PEC and the steering didn't feel noticeably different to my 991.1 GT3.
Incidentally I was trying to decide whether spending another ~ £40k on the 991.2 was worth it in terms of the overall driving experience and decided it wasn't.
Whilst both the 991.1 and 991.2 engines both have 9k rev limits they really are different on many levels not just far better stock sound from the gen 2. Incidentally I was trying to decide whether spending another ~ £40k on the 991.2 was worth it in terms of the overall driving experience and decided it wasn't.
The gen 1 torque and power drop offs are notably greater at higher revs compared to the gen 2 which teally thrives on higher revs.
Gen 2 is truly a masterpiece of an engine and almost worth the extra £40k alone. Especially when mated to the superb manual gearbox which of course isn't an option with the gen 1 being pdk only.
fistenburger said:
I sold my 991.2 S for a 991.2 GT3 a couple of months ago, so here are my thoughts....
I had my 991.2 S for three and a half years and used it as a daily for a while. It was my first 911 so I didn't have prior Porsche experience to compare it to. That said I also have a Caterham at home so know what proper steering feel is. The S was obviously nowhere near as good and only ever really came alive through the wheel when really pushing on. After 3 years I took it to Centre Gravity who genuinely transformed the whole feel of the car with a full geo setup. I couldn't believe it was the same car. I could have gone further with GT3 lower arms etc but for me there was no point.
If you're wondering if your car can feel any better than it is then don't hesitate with speaking with Centre Gravity.
I'd expected the GT3 o be different, but it is on another level. It feels like a grown up Caterham and the steering is alive all the time. Some of this will be setup (as done by RPMTechnik before delivery) but the suspension components and Cup 2 tyres complete the picture. I don't think you'll get anywhere close unless you change many bits on your S.
That's a good tip, Centre Gravity. Thank you. I will check them out. Is it something that will void the warranty, or will it go unnoticed?I had my 991.2 S for three and a half years and used it as a daily for a while. It was my first 911 so I didn't have prior Porsche experience to compare it to. That said I also have a Caterham at home so know what proper steering feel is. The S was obviously nowhere near as good and only ever really came alive through the wheel when really pushing on. After 3 years I took it to Centre Gravity who genuinely transformed the whole feel of the car with a full geo setup. I couldn't believe it was the same car. I could have gone further with GT3 lower arms etc but for me there was no point.
If you're wondering if your car can feel any better than it is then don't hesitate with speaking with Centre Gravity.
I'd expected the GT3 o be different, but it is on another level. It feels like a grown up Caterham and the steering is alive all the time. Some of this will be setup (as done by RPMTechnik before delivery) but the suspension components and Cup 2 tyres complete the picture. I don't think you'll get anywhere close unless you change many bits on your S.
Centrente said:
That's a good tip, Centre Gravity. Thank you. I will check them out. Is it something that will void the warranty, or will it go unnoticed?
Not at all - it's just a suspension setup and geometry adjustment. It's all adjustable from the factory. You can go further with them and change components if you wanted to, but that would then invalidate the warranty.fistenburger said:
Not at all - it's just a suspension setup and geometry adjustment. It's all adjustable from the factory. You can go further with them and change components if you wanted to, but that would then invalidate the warranty.
Interesting. I was looking at the Litchfield suspension kit/setup as Evo had some good comments about it. Might talk to Gravity now as well I must admit I thought there was more difference between the S and GT3 in terms of suspension components
Thanks all for your thoughts
It’s an interesting question. Certainly by reputation the 991.2 Carreras improved their steering feel over the 991.1 by utilising the technology that went into the 991.1 GT3s EPAS system, so the differences will be in the chassis.
Litchfield have a good value set up for the 991.2 by just changing the springs and bushes. Apparently this does wonders once adding in the whole new set up. I’m planning to get a similar job done at Ninemeister.
I think all the wailing around the loss of hydraulic power steering has calmed down now as EPAS has been improved. The extra sensations were coming from the belt rather than true feel from the road.
I did consider switching to a 991.1 GT3 when prices were dipping into the 90s from OPCs last year, but there was always the concern surrounding the engine and getting closer to the end of its warranty. I suspect some of the excellent specialist places will start to offer rebuilds in due course, if the worst happens. Hopefully a cost effective solution to buying a new one from Porsche. Are these failures still happening, or is the problem sorted with the latest spec engine? I haven’t heard of any for a while, so maybe all the problem ones have been replaced by now?
Litchfield have a good value set up for the 991.2 by just changing the springs and bushes. Apparently this does wonders once adding in the whole new set up. I’m planning to get a similar job done at Ninemeister.
I think all the wailing around the loss of hydraulic power steering has calmed down now as EPAS has been improved. The extra sensations were coming from the belt rather than true feel from the road.
I did consider switching to a 991.1 GT3 when prices were dipping into the 90s from OPCs last year, but there was always the concern surrounding the engine and getting closer to the end of its warranty. I suspect some of the excellent specialist places will start to offer rebuilds in due course, if the worst happens. Hopefully a cost effective solution to buying a new one from Porsche. Are these failures still happening, or is the problem sorted with the latest spec engine? I haven’t heard of any for a while, so maybe all the problem ones have been replaced by now?
I’ve gone from a 2006 Cayman S to a 2021 GT4 and the steering is hugely different.
Fantastic steering in the GT4 it is but it doesn’t have the old school tactile granular feel of the road surface.
On the plus side it’s hugely effective and less fatiguing.
I do feel something is missing but I’m sure I’ll forget about it, I had the previous car 13 years so the feel is ingrained. Off topic car wise but an EPAS comment tho.
Fantastic steering in the GT4 it is but it doesn’t have the old school tactile granular feel of the road surface.
On the plus side it’s hugely effective and less fatiguing.
I do feel something is missing but I’m sure I’ll forget about it, I had the previous car 13 years so the feel is ingrained. Off topic car wise but an EPAS comment tho.
So I’m am able to answer my own question here !
By chance I was at the dealers this morning to get my AC regassed and they happen to have 991.1 GT3 there. After a discussion with them I got a nice test drive in a road I know reasonably well and lucky the sun was out and it was dry.
So the overall steering feel is much better in the GT3 vs the later S. i couldn’t say it was more granular though. What made it was that there was much more immediate turn in and on-it’s-toes feeling that’s missing from my S, more playful. Much preferred it and knew it was what I’m after 1 corner in.
Now I’m weighing up the pros and cons of engine being out of warranty in a few years as it’s got to hit values fairly hard etc. Also having a PDK rather than a manual. I’m going to speak to Porsche to find out if the extended warranty would cover it after the engine warranty runs out amd take it from there I think.
By chance I was at the dealers this morning to get my AC regassed and they happen to have 991.1 GT3 there. After a discussion with them I got a nice test drive in a road I know reasonably well and lucky the sun was out and it was dry.
So the overall steering feel is much better in the GT3 vs the later S. i couldn’t say it was more granular though. What made it was that there was much more immediate turn in and on-it’s-toes feeling that’s missing from my S, more playful. Much preferred it and knew it was what I’m after 1 corner in.
Now I’m weighing up the pros and cons of engine being out of warranty in a few years as it’s got to hit values fairly hard etc. Also having a PDK rather than a manual. I’m going to speak to Porsche to find out if the extended warranty would cover it after the engine warranty runs out amd take it from there I think.
Edited by bosshog on Wednesday 15th December 18:47
bosshog said:
So I’m am able to answer my own question here !
By chance I was at the dealers this morning to get my AC regassed and they happen to have 991.1 GT3 there. After a discussion with them I got a nice test drive in a road I know reasonably well and lucky the sun was out and it was dry.
So the overall steering feel is much better in the GT3 vs the later S. i couldn’t say it was more granular though. What made it was that there was much more immediate turn in and on-it’s-toes feeling that’s missing from my S, more playful. Much preferred it and knew it was what I’m after 1 corner in.
Now I’m weighing up the pros and cons of engine being out of warranty in a few years as it’s got to hit values fairly hard etc. Also having a PDK rather than a manual. I’m going to speak to Porsche to find out if the extended warranty would cover it after the engine warranty runs out amd take it from there I think.
Haha, good answer then!By chance I was at the dealers this morning to get my AC regassed and they happen to have 991.1 GT3 there. After a discussion with them I got a nice test drive in a road I know reasonably well and lucky the sun was out and it was dry.
So the overall steering feel is much better in the GT3 vs the later S. i couldn’t say it was more granular though. What made it was that there was much more immediate turn in and on-it’s-toes feeling that’s missing from my S, more playful. Much preferred it and knew it was what I’m after 1 corner in.
Now I’m weighing up the pros and cons of engine being out of warranty in a few years as it’s got to hit values fairly hard etc. Also having a PDK rather than a manual. I’m going to speak to Porsche to find out if the extended warranty would cover it after the engine warranty runs out amd take it from there I think.
Edited by bosshog on Wednesday 15th December 18:47
Even if you can extend the engine warranty, it’ll be restrictive (limited tyre choices, no modifications, OPC servicing etc) and owners will be at the mercy of Porsche if they up the warranty charge. I’m suspecting it’ll be a case of factoring in the worst case scenario into the purchase price, but surely there’ll be a good independent solution. For example a 997.1 bore scored engine can be rebuilt, better than before, as a 4 litre now I believe.
fistenburger said:
I sold my 991.2 S for a 991.2 GT3 a couple of months ago, so here are my thoughts....
I had my 991.2 S for three and a half years and used it as a daily for a while. It was my first 911 so I didn't have prior Porsche experience to compare it to. That said I also have a Caterham at home so know what proper steering feel is. The S was obviously nowhere near as good and only ever really came alive through the wheel when really pushing on. After 3 years I took it to Centre Gravity who genuinely transformed the whole feel of the car with a full geo setup. I couldn't believe it was the same car. I could have gone further with GT3 lower arms etc but for me there was no point.
If you're wondering if your car can feel any better than it is then don't hesitate with speaking with Centre Gravity.
I'd expected the GT3 o be different, but it is on another level. It feels like a grown up Caterham and the steering is alive all the time. Some of this will be setup (as done by RPMTechnik before delivery) but the suspension components and Cup 2 tyres complete the picture. I don't think you'll get anywhere close unless you change many bits on your S.
Regarding the setup you had done at center gravity- how does that compare steering wise to the gt3 ?I had my 991.2 S for three and a half years and used it as a daily for a while. It was my first 911 so I didn't have prior Porsche experience to compare it to. That said I also have a Caterham at home so know what proper steering feel is. The S was obviously nowhere near as good and only ever really came alive through the wheel when really pushing on. After 3 years I took it to Centre Gravity who genuinely transformed the whole feel of the car with a full geo setup. I couldn't believe it was the same car. I could have gone further with GT3 lower arms etc but for me there was no point.
If you're wondering if your car can feel any better than it is then don't hesitate with speaking with Centre Gravity.
I'd expected the GT3 o be different, but it is on another level. It feels like a grown up Caterham and the steering is alive all the time. Some of this will be setup (as done by RPMTechnik before delivery) but the suspension components and Cup 2 tyres complete the picture. I don't think you'll get anywhere close unless you change many bits on your S.
bosshog said:
Regarding the setup you had done at center gravity- how does that compare steering wise to the gt3 ?
No comparison, but that's because the GT3 has different components and I deliberately asked for a road biased setup on my C2S.However, they honestly did transform the car's feel with just a morning's work on the car's geometry. Give them a call and talk through your options. I went to them after a barrage of recommendations for them in this forum.
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