Calling all GT3 fans
Discussion
Having owned for six months now a 996 which is nothing less than superb, I went and did a very silly thing. I called a local specialist regarding prices for 2 or 3 year old GT3s, with the intention of doing a little research so that I might buy one (tell the wife it's an "investment") in a year or two. I discovered by coincidence they had one in stock, in a most superb metallic red-orange.
It was not Club Sport spec, however I think the salesman was so impressed by my artful use of the words "low mass flywheel" that he suggested I give it a go. (Mental note to self, read back over Pistonheads threads before blagging test drives).
Feck me, I was blown away. 5 hours later, I am still reeling and seriously questioning my sanity. Why would anyone of sound mind sell a 911 6 months after buying it brand new for a 2 year old, totally impractical supercar with God knows what kind of running costs?
After getting back into my Carrera 2, I thought I was driving a repmobile. The GT3 was a snarling, rabid monster in comparison. The world's heaviest clutch (I thought it was stuck!), straight cut gears (is that standard? the salesman didn't know), a stiff ride allied to what I think is a quicker steering rack giving the overall impression of dartiness and no understeer in contrast to my own C2, and an angry, rev hungry engine which feels like it wants to suck the whole world into its enormous lungs.
The thing is, all of the above, coupled with looks I could die for (especially in that colour) means that I have a problem. Basically, with the exchange rate being what it is out here, the car is the equivalent of 43 grand sterling. That to me (and probably you) is great value, although in real terms I get shafted on my six month old 996.
Now my question is, given my requirements for a car which must by nature be compromised (I do regular motorway mileage at high speed, need to carry a baby in the back, and would like to preserve my marriage to a wonderful and long-suffering woman who hates jerky gear changes and experimental heel and toeing (Thanks McNab, it's MUCH better now!!), can I do enough to my stock Carrera 2 to at least get somewhere near the potential that the GT3 demonstrates?
I have standard 17 inch wheels, seats, suspension and exhaust. Would beefing each of these up take me some way towards GT3 nirvana, or am I just wasting time and money given what seeems to me to be a huge differential? What would it cost me, without losing the back seats?
Or should I just feck it, realise what a bargain I am being offered, and go for it anyway?
It was not Club Sport spec, however I think the salesman was so impressed by my artful use of the words "low mass flywheel" that he suggested I give it a go. (Mental note to self, read back over Pistonheads threads before blagging test drives).
Feck me, I was blown away. 5 hours later, I am still reeling and seriously questioning my sanity. Why would anyone of sound mind sell a 911 6 months after buying it brand new for a 2 year old, totally impractical supercar with God knows what kind of running costs?
After getting back into my Carrera 2, I thought I was driving a repmobile. The GT3 was a snarling, rabid monster in comparison. The world's heaviest clutch (I thought it was stuck!), straight cut gears (is that standard? the salesman didn't know), a stiff ride allied to what I think is a quicker steering rack giving the overall impression of dartiness and no understeer in contrast to my own C2, and an angry, rev hungry engine which feels like it wants to suck the whole world into its enormous lungs.
The thing is, all of the above, coupled with looks I could die for (especially in that colour) means that I have a problem. Basically, with the exchange rate being what it is out here, the car is the equivalent of 43 grand sterling. That to me (and probably you) is great value, although in real terms I get shafted on my six month old 996.
Now my question is, given my requirements for a car which must by nature be compromised (I do regular motorway mileage at high speed, need to carry a baby in the back, and would like to preserve my marriage to a wonderful and long-suffering woman who hates jerky gear changes and experimental heel and toeing (Thanks McNab, it's MUCH better now!!), can I do enough to my stock Carrera 2 to at least get somewhere near the potential that the GT3 demonstrates?
I have standard 17 inch wheels, seats, suspension and exhaust. Would beefing each of these up take me some way towards GT3 nirvana, or am I just wasting time and money given what seeems to me to be a huge differential? What would it cost me, without losing the back seats?
Or should I just feck it, realise what a bargain I am being offered, and go for it anyway?
You can never spend enough on a 996 to make it go like a GT3, the cars are chalk and cheese like the 964 and the 964RS.
Just keep reminding yourself that you are a long time dead as you write out the cheque to buy the car, then on the longest drive home you can manage think of all the different ways that you can justify it to the world and your wife. The bottom line is that by the time you get home, you will not care!
Just keep reminding yourself that you are a long time dead as you write out the cheque to buy the car, then on the longest drive home you can manage think of all the different ways that you can justify it to the world and your wife. The bottom line is that by the time you get home, you will not care!
Mmm, sounds familiar. I sold both my Lotus Exige (had it 5 months) and my Evo 7 (had it 3 months)in the same week to get into a GT3. Sometimes you just have to go with your heart, accept the loss and get on with enjoying it !
Haven't heard of the straight-cut gears option though.
The ride is firm but you soon get used to it, the only issue I would have if I used it everyday on motorway runs is the tyre noise, which can be very excessive.
Check the clutch condition as well - I had mine for 4 weeks when it started to expire, 2500 + vat bill to replace, currently arguing with the main dealer and Porsche for some answers....
You can't turn a standard 996 into a GT3, there are so many differences, not least the engine itself which is based on the 964/993 bottom-end, and the geometry and springs/dampers combination.
I have a Clubsport, the differences are the single mass flywheel (very noisy in neutral and easy to stall) battery cut-off switch in front of gearlever and pull-cord under bonnet, no centre console, no side airbags, seats covered in fire resistant fabric, six-point harness and bolt-in fire extinguisher.
Go for it.
>> Edited by beaver on Tuesday 15th October 17:37
Haven't heard of the straight-cut gears option though.
The ride is firm but you soon get used to it, the only issue I would have if I used it everyday on motorway runs is the tyre noise, which can be very excessive.
Check the clutch condition as well - I had mine for 4 weeks when it started to expire, 2500 + vat bill to replace, currently arguing with the main dealer and Porsche for some answers....
You can't turn a standard 996 into a GT3, there are so many differences, not least the engine itself which is based on the 964/993 bottom-end, and the geometry and springs/dampers combination.
I have a Clubsport, the differences are the single mass flywheel (very noisy in neutral and easy to stall) battery cut-off switch in front of gearlever and pull-cord under bonnet, no centre console, no side airbags, seats covered in fire resistant fabric, six-point harness and bolt-in fire extinguisher.
Go for it.
>> Edited by beaver on Tuesday 15th October 17:37
£43 Grand sounds like an absolute bargain - it hasn't done exessive mileage has it?
Anyway for that kind of money, i'd jump at the opertunity!
They're fantastic cars - just watch the Porsche Cup to see how hard they can be driven, they take them GT3R's to the absolute limit!
As the others have said, buy it and enjoy!
If you get it, you might be able to keep up with that Mini that passed you
Anyway for that kind of money, i'd jump at the opertunity!
They're fantastic cars - just watch the Porsche Cup to see how hard they can be driven, they take them GT3R's to the absolute limit!
As the others have said, buy it and enjoy!
If you get it, you might be able to keep up with that Mini that passed you
Damn it, you people are not helping here. I was hoping to be talked out of it.
Answers first:
I live in Dubai, where car buyers are pretty daft and apply some fairly rudimentary logic to depreciation on cars, hence the good value for a GT3. If I resist the call this time round, I am sure the urge will get me eventually before I go back to Blighty, and I may pick up a GT3 even more cheaply in a year or two's time (although of course my own 996 will have depreciated at roughly the same rate.) In real terms, since I am paid locally, I am not realising such a bargain, but it makes me feel better to convert into sterling.
Yes indeed it is that good - it's amazing how different the Carrera 2 and the GT3 are, and this despite me being a convert to the subtle charms of the 996 over the 993 (read: I'm getting too old for the hard core stuff).
The mileage is 69k km which partially explains the price. Quite how the previous owner managed to rack up an average annual mileage of 20k (miles) with such an uncompromised car is beyond me.
Despite being smitten by the experience, I was somewhat concerned at a smokey exhaust, a couple of resonances, and some evidence of overspray around the back bumper. I am getting in touch with the dealer who serviced it to find out the full history.
With another two years to go before heading back to the UK, depending on my discussions with the servicing dealer, maybe I'll let this one get away for the moment but I have no doubt now that I want a GT3 and the kid(s) will just have to cling to the roof...
>> Edited by Harris_I on Wednesday 16th October 06:36
Answers first:
I live in Dubai, where car buyers are pretty daft and apply some fairly rudimentary logic to depreciation on cars, hence the good value for a GT3. If I resist the call this time round, I am sure the urge will get me eventually before I go back to Blighty, and I may pick up a GT3 even more cheaply in a year or two's time (although of course my own 996 will have depreciated at roughly the same rate.) In real terms, since I am paid locally, I am not realising such a bargain, but it makes me feel better to convert into sterling.
Yes indeed it is that good - it's amazing how different the Carrera 2 and the GT3 are, and this despite me being a convert to the subtle charms of the 996 over the 993 (read: I'm getting too old for the hard core stuff).
The mileage is 69k km which partially explains the price. Quite how the previous owner managed to rack up an average annual mileage of 20k (miles) with such an uncompromised car is beyond me.
Despite being smitten by the experience, I was somewhat concerned at a smokey exhaust, a couple of resonances, and some evidence of overspray around the back bumper. I am getting in touch with the dealer who serviced it to find out the full history.
With another two years to go before heading back to the UK, depending on my discussions with the servicing dealer, maybe I'll let this one get away for the moment but I have no doubt now that I want a GT3 and the kid(s) will just have to cling to the roof...
>> Edited by Harris_I on Wednesday 16th October 06:36
Dazren,
I spend my life modifying Porsches and as far as I am concerned, if it has a Porsche badge on the front then it is fair game. I suppose if I reveal now that I am developing a 4.0 litre atmo conversion for the GT3 race engine with new crank, rods, pistons & heads that will give 550bhp, would you call that "bastardising" as well?
Chill out, my comment was said in jest to prove a point, BUT if anyone out there is serious enough it could be done. I would do it as well if someone was puddled enough to want a GT3 town car OR if someone wanted a GT3 but could not use a clutch and gearlever.
Anyway, it's ONLY a car........
>> Edited by NineMeister on Wednesday 16th October 14:38
I spend my life modifying Porsches and as far as I am concerned, if it has a Porsche badge on the front then it is fair game. I suppose if I reveal now that I am developing a 4.0 litre atmo conversion for the GT3 race engine with new crank, rods, pistons & heads that will give 550bhp, would you call that "bastardising" as well?
Chill out, my comment was said in jest to prove a point, BUT if anyone out there is serious enough it could be done. I would do it as well if someone was puddled enough to want a GT3 town car OR if someone wanted a GT3 but could not use a clutch and gearlever.
Anyway, it's ONLY a car........
>> Edited by NineMeister on Wednesday 16th October 14:38
Hi 9M
I know what your company does, I'm a 911 & PW subscriber. I've also seen your multicoloured 911 at both Branham Park (PCGB member) and Oulton Park (Mate racing in the Porsche open) this year.
550bhp GT3?. Ah, thats not bastardising the vehicle, that's improving the vehicle to how it should have left the factory. Out of interest what's the most improved road going GT3 you've had through the workshop?
If an injured ex racing driver or enthusiast wants an auto GT3, no problem, get to work. If some hairdresser wants a pink GT3 automatic convertible, please please show him/her the door. Or build it from a C2, please don't start from a GT3.
You must excuse my earlier rant it's just that I get a little excited when I hear of "non improving" conversions to limited build cars (The key here is limited build). The one that really caused me to have a fit was when reading an american magazine, a dealer had a 959 with it's roof cut off for sale. Some people, Huh!
ONLY A CAR!!!!!!!
DAZ
(Tongue in Cheek)
>> Edited by Dazren on Wednesday 16th October 15:23
I know what your company does, I'm a 911 & PW subscriber. I've also seen your multicoloured 911 at both Branham Park (PCGB member) and Oulton Park (Mate racing in the Porsche open) this year.
550bhp GT3?. Ah, thats not bastardising the vehicle, that's improving the vehicle to how it should have left the factory. Out of interest what's the most improved road going GT3 you've had through the workshop?
If an injured ex racing driver or enthusiast wants an auto GT3, no problem, get to work. If some hairdresser wants a pink GT3 automatic convertible, please please show him/her the door. Or build it from a C2, please don't start from a GT3.
You must excuse my earlier rant it's just that I get a little excited when I hear of "non improving" conversions to limited build cars (The key here is limited build). The one that really caused me to have a fit was when reading an american magazine, a dealer had a 959 with it's roof cut off for sale. Some people, Huh!
ONLY A CAR!!!!!!!
DAZ
(Tongue in Cheek)
>> Edited by Dazren on Wednesday 16th October 15:23
Update:
Turns out the car had chassis damage (side impact)
although the main dealer claims the car was as good as new after the repair. Nevertheless, I think it would be prudent to walk away, especially with that mileage. I have, however, discovered that one of the dealer's customers wants to sell his silver Clubsport which is allegedly perfect.
As a daily driver, it could be pretty harsh (I got rid of my previous car, an Integrale, because I felt it was wearing me out) and have found the Carrera to be everything that I need. Now if I could justify having a cheap second car to tootle to the office in, and the fact that the GT3 would not really get any decent roads to enjoy for at least two years until my return to the UK, I might just be able to pull it off...
Dilemmas, dilemmas.
Turns out the car had chassis damage (side impact)
although the main dealer claims the car was as good as new after the repair. Nevertheless, I think it would be prudent to walk away, especially with that mileage. I have, however, discovered that one of the dealer's customers wants to sell his silver Clubsport which is allegedly perfect. As a daily driver, it could be pretty harsh (I got rid of my previous car, an Integrale, because I felt it was wearing me out) and have found the Carrera to be everything that I need. Now if I could justify having a cheap second car to tootle to the office in, and the fact that the GT3 would not really get any decent roads to enjoy for at least two years until my return to the UK, I might just be able to pull it off...
Dilemmas, dilemmas.
Most improved GT3? 600bhp twin turbo conversion. Ample.
What can I do for your GT3? Put simply, we can either do the same as every other UK tuner & fit German developed tuning goodies up to various levels of TUV tune OR we can undertake a complete redesign of every moving component in the engine, the head, intake and exhaust system and then make it all work like an F1 engine. Seriously.
We are currently looking for a good or damaged GT3 engine to use as a testbed for our ideas, so if anyone knows of a spare engine that is looking for a 200bhp hike then call me immediately.
What can I do for your GT3? Put simply, we can either do the same as every other UK tuner & fit German developed tuning goodies up to various levels of TUV tune OR we can undertake a complete redesign of every moving component in the engine, the head, intake and exhaust system and then make it all work like an F1 engine. Seriously.
We are currently looking for a good or damaged GT3 engine to use as a testbed for our ideas, so if anyone knows of a spare engine that is looking for a 200bhp hike then call me immediately.
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