Tyre Query - Steering Wheel Vibration:
Discussion
Potentially a stupid question but I’m hoping someone might be able to help.
I recently had a set of Michelin Primacy 4 (225/45 R17 94W) fitted to my SAAB 9-3.
Now, this part may be relevant, but I could also be overthinking things. The tyres were fitted to a set of recently refurbished wheels. At the time of fitting, it became clear paint had been applied to the centre bore, meaning the wheels wouldn’t fit over the hub.
A small amount of material was ground out to allow the wheel to fit over the hub. The wheels were rebalanced and fitted to the car. Fairly swiftly after, I noticed a vibration through the steering wheel at around 70mph.
Assuming it was an imbalanced wheel, I had both front wheels rebalanced but the problem remained. I then had all four wheels aligned at a reputable place locally, however the problem remains.
Now it’s at this point my stupidity becomes quite clear. I’ve ordered the wrong tyres. Instead of ordering the stipulated XL variant, I’ve ordered the regular tyre. There is no defence, but the tyres ordered were listed as an option for my car. I just didn’t think to double check what I was ordered were exactly the right tyre.
They’re currently inflated to the suggested 36psi, however I wonder whether the lack of reinforcement could be the cause of the vibration? If so, would running a slightly higher pressure provide a temporary cure until such a time that the tyres need to be replaced?
Alternatively, do I need to chalk it up to experience and bite the bullet on another set of tyres?
I recently had a set of Michelin Primacy 4 (225/45 R17 94W) fitted to my SAAB 9-3.
Now, this part may be relevant, but I could also be overthinking things. The tyres were fitted to a set of recently refurbished wheels. At the time of fitting, it became clear paint had been applied to the centre bore, meaning the wheels wouldn’t fit over the hub.
A small amount of material was ground out to allow the wheel to fit over the hub. The wheels were rebalanced and fitted to the car. Fairly swiftly after, I noticed a vibration through the steering wheel at around 70mph.
Assuming it was an imbalanced wheel, I had both front wheels rebalanced but the problem remained. I then had all four wheels aligned at a reputable place locally, however the problem remains.
Now it’s at this point my stupidity becomes quite clear. I’ve ordered the wrong tyres. Instead of ordering the stipulated XL variant, I’ve ordered the regular tyre. There is no defence, but the tyres ordered were listed as an option for my car. I just didn’t think to double check what I was ordered were exactly the right tyre.
They’re currently inflated to the suggested 36psi, however I wonder whether the lack of reinforcement could be the cause of the vibration? If so, would running a slightly higher pressure provide a temporary cure until such a time that the tyres need to be replaced?
Alternatively, do I need to chalk it up to experience and bite the bullet on another set of tyres?
I wouldn't have thought the non XL tyres would have any bearing on the vibration - I would be very surprised if the car exceeds the allowable load on any one corner. Possibly Saab/GM specified XL tyres as it provides an extra margin for error on what might be a relatively fast (for the time) FWD platform. However, you might find that your insurance might refuse to pay out if you were involved in an accident that was attributed to defective tyres.
Does the vibration occur at all road speeds or is it more pronounced at a certain speed? Also Have you accurately measured the bore now? How does it compare with the flange diameter? It could be that you haven't removed enough paint and the wheel is not mounted flat on the hub as a result. You could lift each corner and spin the wheels to check.
Does the vibration occur at all road speeds or is it more pronounced at a certain speed? Also Have you accurately measured the bore now? How does it compare with the flange diameter? It could be that you haven't removed enough paint and the wheel is not mounted flat on the hub as a result. You could lift each corner and spin the wheels to check.
GreenV8S said:
garethrobinson said:
A small amount of material was ground out to allow the wheel to fit over the hub.
That sounds a bit alarming. Do you mean you scraped the paint off the part that fits the center spigot, or you actually removed metal?E-bmw said:
GreenV8S said:
garethrobinson said:
A small amount of material was ground out to allow the wheel to fit over the hub.
That sounds a bit alarming. Do you mean you scraped the paint off the part that fits the center spigot, or you actually removed metal?I'd hope only enough to remove the excess paint but I suppose it is possible metal could have been removed too. Judging by the replies, I assume this is bad...
One wheel was repaired as part of the refurbishing process so my plan is to rotate the wheels front to back this weekend and see if that has any effects on the vibration. More than happy to share a photo of the reverse of the wheel if it's likely to help diagnose the issue.
Is it the same place doing the balancing each time?
I had a similar problem a few years ago after new tyres, eventually went to another (more expensive!) tyre place for balancing and the vibration issue was fixed. Seems the original tyre place had a
balancing machine/operator.
I don’t see how the XL vs non XL tyre is going to be the cause of the issue.
I had a similar problem a few years ago after new tyres, eventually went to another (more expensive!) tyre place for balancing and the vibration issue was fixed. Seems the original tyre place had a
balancing machine/operator.I don’t see how the XL vs non XL tyre is going to be the cause of the issue.
Scrump said:
Is it the same place doing the balancing each time?
I had a similar problem a few years ago after new tyres, eventually went to another (more expensive!) tyre place for balancing and the vibration issue was fixed. Seems the original tyre place had a balancing machine/operator.
I don’t see how the XL vs non XL tyre is going to be the cause of the issue.
It's not, no. The chap balancing the wheels for the second time let me observe and they're perfectly balanced.I had a similar problem a few years ago after new tyres, eventually went to another (more expensive!) tyre place for balancing and the vibration issue was fixed. Seems the original tyre place had a
balancing machine/operator.I don’t see how the XL vs non XL tyre is going to be the cause of the issue.
As mentioned above I will rotate the wheels over the coming days and report back.
Glad to hear it's unlikely to be the tyres! I do have a spare set of pretty grim wheels in the shed I could always have the tyres transferred to if needs be.
Rotated the wheels this evening and grabbed a couple of photos which hopefully better explain the situation.
This is the O/S/F. Dirty but you can quite clearly see the remnants of paint towards the centre of the wheel.
|https://thumbsnap.com/6uEKodLV[/url]
This is the N/S/R. It seems to have had a slightly harder time of things - from straight on it's clear the hole isn't centred which is slightly worrying.
I suppose the question is whether or not these wheels are shot?
This is the O/S/F. Dirty but you can quite clearly see the remnants of paint towards the centre of the wheel.
|https://thumbsnap.com/6uEKodLV[/url]This is the N/S/R. It seems to have had a slightly harder time of things - from straight on it's clear the hole isn't centred which is slightly worrying.
I suppose the question is whether or not these wheels are shot?
On that last pic you can quite clearly see how Un-central the spigot bore now is.
Your wheels could be borked mate!
I think you need to find out if there is anyone near you who can re-machine them the next spigot size up & get spigot adapters on them.
It might be preferable to get your other wheels out.
Your wheels could be borked mate!
I think you need to find out if there is anyone near you who can re-machine them the next spigot size up & get spigot adapters on them.
It might be preferable to get your other wheels out.
Edited by E-bmw on Friday 22 October 08:12
sam.rog said:
Jesus Christ. Doesn’t the spigot hold the wheel central. The vibration is probably the wheel not central to the hub.
The bolts centre the wheel on the hub on the car, but the bore centres the wheel on the balancing machine. If the two centres are different, the balancing can't be the same on the machine and and on the car.E-bmw said:
On that last pic you can quite clearly see how Un-central the spigot bore now is.
Your wheels could be borked mate!
I think you need to find out if there is anyone near you who can re-machine them the next spigot size up & get spigot adapters on them.
It might be preferable to get your other wheels out.
I think you might be right. I'll make contact with the wheel refurbisher this morning and see if they're able to remachine them, or know someone that can.Your wheels could be borked mate!
I think you need to find out if there is anyone near you who can re-machine them the next spigot size up & get spigot adapters on them.
It might be preferable to get your other wheels out.
Edited by E-bmw on Friday 22 October 08:12
In other news, after rotating the wheels last night, I went out for a quick road test this morning and the vibration is gone. Despite the state of the wheels.
Tea Cakes Beer said:
The bolts centre the wheel on the hub on the car, but the bore centres the wheel on the balancing machine
Wheels designed to be located by a center spigot will be located on the car by the spigot. If the spigot is a loose fit the bolts / studs may provide enough location to mount the wheel centrally but the spigot is intended to do that job.Yeah, looks like someone's been rather aggressive with how they've cleaned the excess paint off the centre bore, looks a bit bad.
Not sure why, it shouldn't have been that hard to remove, but ah well, it's done now.
Wonder if anyone could turn the bore out to a larger size to fit standard spigot rings like an aftermarket alloy would use.
Not sure why, it shouldn't have been that hard to remove, but ah well, it's done now.
Wonder if anyone could turn the bore out to a larger size to fit standard spigot rings like an aftermarket alloy would use.
That second pic looks grim.
Have you tried jacking the motor up and spinning the suspect wheels by hand, its possible you'll be able to see the oscillation issue with the naked eye.
What a performance, dunno which clowns were worse here, the refurbers who apparently sloshed paint everywhere it wasn't supposed to be, or the fitter who presumably set about them with an angle grinder.
We are absolutely sure the wheels are the correct ones for the car in question, especially re spigot dimension? are the wheelbolts correct ie enough space for the thread to pass through allowing full contact by the correct taper/curved bolt seats?
One other point, did you buy these wheels used? one wonders if they'd already seen some abuse, allowed to work loose, or something in their previous life.
I too doubt the XL ratings or lack of them have any influence here.
Have you tried jacking the motor up and spinning the suspect wheels by hand, its possible you'll be able to see the oscillation issue with the naked eye.
What a performance, dunno which clowns were worse here, the refurbers who apparently sloshed paint everywhere it wasn't supposed to be, or the fitter who presumably set about them with an angle grinder.
We are absolutely sure the wheels are the correct ones for the car in question, especially re spigot dimension? are the wheelbolts correct ie enough space for the thread to pass through allowing full contact by the correct taper/curved bolt seats?
One other point, did you buy these wheels used? one wonders if they'd already seen some abuse, allowed to work loose, or something in their previous life.
I too doubt the XL ratings or lack of them have any influence here.
Edited by Smint on Friday 22 October 18:10
Definitely the right wheels. They were a carbon copy of those taken off. Wheel bolts are the same that have always been used so I assume are fine. They were bought second hand though so there's every chance they have had a hard life.
The refurbisher in question are really well rated locally and on here. Disappointed would be an understatement.
In hindsight though, I should have taken the wheels back as soon as the initial issue arose. Either way, we live and we learn. My hope is they're able to be machined into a usable shape and with the help of spigot ring put back into service. If not, I'll chalk it up to experience and get my spare set refurbished.
Really do appreciate everyone's responses.
The refurbisher in question are really well rated locally and on here. Disappointed would be an understatement.
In hindsight though, I should have taken the wheels back as soon as the initial issue arose. Either way, we live and we learn. My hope is they're able to be machined into a usable shape and with the help of spigot ring put back into service. If not, I'll chalk it up to experience and get my spare set refurbished.
Really do appreciate everyone's responses.
Edited by garethrobinson on Friday 22 October 18:49
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