Andretti Autosport into F1
Discussion
Rumours, rumours, rumours - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcL9xyr5bNA
FourWheelDrift said:
Rumours, rumours, rumours - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcL9xyr5bNA
That’s a good piece about the finances of F1, and why investment from Americans in particular, would be welcome. Presumably, the rumour has come back to the fore now, either because Andretti are looking to bounce their financiers into place, or to bounce Sauber’s existing shareholders into the sale.
I think Colton Herta has exactly 40 super licence points, using the pandemic-related methodology that counts any three of the past four years. We all know that an American driver would go down very well with FOM/Liberty, in Bernie’s day they’d have probably offered to pay his salary.
I doubt something like this can happen. Americans blundering around in switzerland trying to get them to conform to a different way of doing things is unlikey. They are in their swiss/euro rut and happy.
Shutting the swiss down and moving it all to the US would be expensive and there are no doubt lots of laws to protect the swiss workers.
Webber will have to find pistashio a drive elsewhere and a USA USA driver wont be happy driving around in last place.
Shutting the swiss down and moving it all to the US would be expensive and there are no doubt lots of laws to protect the swiss workers.
Webber will have to find pistashio a drive elsewhere and a USA USA driver wont be happy driving around in last place.
Fundoreen said:
I doubt something like this can happen. Americans blundering around in switzerland trying to get them to conform to a different way of doing things is unlikey. They are in their swiss/euro rut and happy.
Shutting the swiss down and moving it all to the US would be expensive and there are no doubt lots of laws to protect the swiss workers.
Webber will have to find pistashio a drive elsewhere and a USA USA driver wont be happy driving around in last place.
Same. I agree that American investors/business are increasingly motivated to invest heavily in F1 and I agree that Sauber could be a team up for grabs... But I don't see the Americans racing via a Swiss team.Shutting the swiss down and moving it all to the US would be expensive and there are no doubt lots of laws to protect the swiss workers.
Webber will have to find pistashio a drive elsewhere and a USA USA driver wont be happy driving around in last place.
Given they now (probably) have two GP's in North America each season and a rapidly growing American viewership, I think a home grown team is probably on the cards in a the next few years. Could be a recycling of the current Haas team but it seems likely they will be rebranded and become #Russian..
Overall I think an entirely new or at least relocated team on US soil - which will be an absolute nightmare logistically but it can work and they'll probably stubbornly make it work. For Americans it means a lot for something to be 'American'.. Can't just slap a GM brand badge on a Sauber and paint the car in stars and stripes.
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 14th October 19:54
There's certainly space for another couple of teams on the grid, but when you have teams trailing around a long way off the pace would the sport prefer another two cars, or to get one of the backmarkers up to speed? It's something interesting to consider - but spreading the available sponsorship/advertising/prize money more thinly doesn't seem wise when there are already teams just holding on by their fingernails, race wise.
With a lot of teams in the UK, I would think a US team would have a somewhat easier time picking up staff from there - no language barrier and most Brits even have a vague idea of what an inch is!
Maybe base the manufacturing in the Middle East and just have a nominal HQ in the USA. F1 is becoming increasingly Middle Eastern from a geographic standpoint, so logistically it isn't quite as unworkable as it might appear - lots of subsidies available too I bet. Perhaps even "sister" teams running essentially the same car - one US flagged and one Dubai (or whatever) flagged. Helps get more drivers on the grid and more viewers with a local team to support.
With a lot of teams in the UK, I would think a US team would have a somewhat easier time picking up staff from there - no language barrier and most Brits even have a vague idea of what an inch is!
Maybe base the manufacturing in the Middle East and just have a nominal HQ in the USA. F1 is becoming increasingly Middle Eastern from a geographic standpoint, so logistically it isn't quite as unworkable as it might appear - lots of subsidies available too I bet. Perhaps even "sister" teams running essentially the same car - one US flagged and one Dubai (or whatever) flagged. Helps get more drivers on the grid and more viewers with a local team to support.
Flooble said:
There's certainly space for another couple of teams on the grid, but when you have teams trailing around a long way off the pace would the sport prefer another two cars, or to get one of the backmarkers up to speed? It's something interesting to consider - but spreading the available sponsorship/advertising/prize money more thinly doesn't seem wise when there are already teams just holding on by their fingernails, race wise.
With a lot of teams in the UK, I would think a US team would have a somewhat easier time picking up staff from there - no language barrier and most Brits even have a vague idea of what an inch is!
Maybe base the manufacturing in the Middle East and just have a nominal HQ in the USA. F1 is becoming increasingly Middle Eastern from a geographic standpoint, so logistically it isn't quite as unworkable as it might appear - lots of subsidies available too I bet. Perhaps even "sister" teams running essentially the same car - one US flagged and one Dubai (or whatever) flagged. Helps get more drivers on the grid and more viewers with a local team to support.
The sport would prefer another team, or two - simply for the security of maintaining a full grid even if a team goes bust.With a lot of teams in the UK, I would think a US team would have a somewhat easier time picking up staff from there - no language barrier and most Brits even have a vague idea of what an inch is!
Maybe base the manufacturing in the Middle East and just have a nominal HQ in the USA. F1 is becoming increasingly Middle Eastern from a geographic standpoint, so logistically it isn't quite as unworkable as it might appear - lots of subsidies available too I bet. Perhaps even "sister" teams running essentially the same car - one US flagged and one Dubai (or whatever) flagged. Helps get more drivers on the grid and more viewers with a local team to support.
At present its far simpler and cheaper for a home looking to enter the sport to buy an existing team - which is great for them but means we're stuck with the present 10 teams indefinitely...
Just maybe if the Americans are to enter under a US manufacturer they might see the worth in bankrolling a home grown team with its own facilities. The FIA would need to waive the cost caps initially though, because no one is going to entertain the idea of assembling a new team and facilities if their investment spending is restricted so much that they can't hope to be competitive for years...
That new $200 million entry fee almost guarantees that no brand new team without major manufacturer backing will ever join F1 again. It was a very clever move by the teams, instantly making their businesses worth at least $200 million if they ever wanted to sell out, and also netting them a $20 million bonus if a new team did appear.
thegreenhell said:
That new $200 million entry fee almost guarantees that no brand new team without major manufacturer backing will ever join F1 again. It was a very clever move by the teams, instantly making their businesses worth at least $200 million if they ever wanted to sell out, and also netting them a $20 million bonus if a new team did appear.
It was a genius move by the sport, it gave value and security to every current team, as you say. It did indeed also come at the cost of making it likely the sport is no more likely to gain an 11th team than it is to lose one of the existing 10. The Americans could be an exception to that though..The sport is clearly gaining viewership in the States and they have several giant domestic auto manufacturers over there... so ignoring the poor value for money of starting a new team, I would guess that if one auto manufacturer really wants an F1 presence they won't worry too much about the price-tag. I expect that they'll care most of all that the team is bona fide American, domestic and has genuine connections with it's manufacturer namesake. If such a firm is to enter, they'll want to do it big.
Whether or not a team located in the States makes any real sense or can even be competitive is another question. Although even if it is a daft idea to assemble an F1 team on the wrong continent, that won't necessarily stop them trying.
TheDeuce said:
It was a genius move by the sport, it gave value and security to every current team, as you say. It did indeed also come at the cost of making it likely the sport is no more likely to gain an 11th team than it is to lose one of the existing 10.
I disagree.$200m of low risk investment is absolute peanuts to the likes of VW, who spend $14.3B a year just on R&D.
That is not the barrier to entry.
vaud said:
TheDeuce said:
It was a genius move by the sport, it gave value and security to every current team, as you say. It did indeed also come at the cost of making it likely the sport is no more likely to gain an 11th team than it is to lose one of the existing 10.
I disagree.$200m of low risk investment is absolute peanuts to the likes of VW, who spend $14.3B a year just on R&D.
That is not the barrier to entry.
Albeit I referenced a potential US team specifically as not worrying about the costs if they wanted a genuinely US team on US soil, which would pretty much force them to start a new team - there's no factory based teams to buy in the US.
Sure, VW can also easily afford whatever works best for them, but money aside, for them it's actually easier to buy an existing team based in UK/Europe - it's not all about money.
TheDeuce said:
Which is exactly what I said in the second half of that post
Albeit I referenced a potential US team specifically as not worrying about the costs if they wanted a genuinely US team on US soil, which would pretty much force them to start a new team - there's no factory based teams to buy in the US.
Sure, VW can also easily afford whatever works best for them, but money aside, for them it's actually easier to buy an existing team based in UK/Europe - it's not all about money.
I feel that VW get all the PR they want by endlessly circulating rumours they may join F1. Better to get column inches at zero cost and zero risk than actually pony up the cash and then risk not being at the top of the field. Albeit I referenced a potential US team specifically as not worrying about the costs if they wanted a genuinely US team on US soil, which would pretty much force them to start a new team - there's no factory based teams to buy in the US.
Sure, VW can also easily afford whatever works best for them, but money aside, for them it's actually easier to buy an existing team based in UK/Europe - it's not all about money.
Flooble said:
TheDeuce said:
Which is exactly what I said in the second half of that post
Albeit I referenced a potential US team specifically as not worrying about the costs if they wanted a genuinely US team on US soil, which would pretty much force them to start a new team - there's no factory based teams to buy in the US.
Sure, VW can also easily afford whatever works best for them, but money aside, for them it's actually easier to buy an existing team based in UK/Europe - it's not all about money.
I feel that VW get all the PR they want by endlessly circulating rumours they may join F1. Better to get column inches at zero cost and zero risk than actually pony up the cash and then risk not being at the top of the field. Albeit I referenced a potential US team specifically as not worrying about the costs if they wanted a genuinely US team on US soil, which would pretty much force them to start a new team - there's no factory based teams to buy in the US.
Sure, VW can also easily afford whatever works best for them, but money aside, for them it's actually easier to buy an existing team based in UK/Europe - it's not all about money.
Anyway, since the Monza meet it seems that they are now genuinely about to dive in - to what extent we can't know just yet.
Going it alone with a new team in 2024.
"Michael Andretti has applied to enter a new F1 team, says father Mario" - https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/18/michael-andret...
"Michael Andretti has applied to enter a new F1 team, says father Mario" - https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/18/michael-andret...
Americans dealing with other americans so they think they will cut a deal to avoid paying the eye watering fee to enter.
At the last moment if that doesnt work they will suddenly say the cost was too high.
Agree they should have brought one of the other teams like haas or williams at thier low ebb.
At the last moment if that doesnt work they will suddenly say the cost was too high.
Agree they should have brought one of the other teams like haas or williams at thier low ebb.
Renault power deal and a UK base - https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/25/andretti-has-d...
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