F1 goes to synthetic fuel

[wsn03]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37872650/formul...

I'm pleased about that, racing without noise just isn't racing

I'm guessing that while EVs are going to be growing massively, synthetic fuel used in racing will do various things to develop the technology and reduce costs - well racing stuff usually finds its way onto automotive development

It might also encourage sports car manufacturers besides just Porsche to keep some ICE development

No doubt people will say no it wont, but no one can predict the future. 20 years ago I was told we wouldn't be able to buy anything but diesel by now - my Dad was a scientist and told my Mother on his deathbed to get rid of 3 classic cars as they'd be no use to me, we'd all be on diesel by the end of the decade! That was 1982.

Good news for those of us wanting to keep our ICE toys. I would like both - EV and keep my ICE. I do see a market for ICE for those who either cannot charge practically, or for very cheap and simple transport.

[Super Sonic]

I wonder what f1 would be like w hydrogen ice's. Zero pollution
ETA Nox emissions, explosion risk!

Edited by Super Sonic on Friday 8th October 00:28

[wsn03]

Super Sonic said:

I wonder what f1 would be like w hydrogen ice's. Zero pollution.

Im sure that's what the ceo of Toyota raced at Fuji this year just to prove a point. He's a confirmed petrol head and wants to see a future for ICE vehicles from what I read, alongside EVs of course. I know its his plan to develop them.

[Super Sonic]

wsn03 said:

Im sure that's what the ceo of Toyota raced at Fuji this year just to prove a point. He's a confirmed petrol head and wants to see a future for ICE vehicles from what I read, alongside EVs of course. I know its his plan to develop them.

Sounds interesting, gonna go ogle.

[wsn03]

Super Sonic said:

wsn03 said:

Im sure that's what the ceo of Toyota raced at Fuji this year just to prove a point. He's a confirmed petrol head and wants to see a future for ICE vehicles from what I read, alongside EVs of course. I know its his plan to develop them.

Sounds interesting, gonna go ogle.

Two for you:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1132023_toyot...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IPR50-soNA

[Red Firecracker]

And of course the MissionH24 programme that the ACO is pushing in collaboration with GreenGT:

https://www.missionh24.fr/en/

Currently based around an LMP3 car and running in some Michelin Le Mans Cup practice sessions this year (website is a touch behind the times with latest news). Absolutely fascinating engineering to see close up.

[wsn03]

Red Firecracker said:

And of course the MissionH24 programme that the ACO is pushing in collaboration with GreenGT:

https://www.missionh24.fr/en/

Currently based around an LMP3 car and running in some Michelin Le Mans Cup practice sessions this year (website is a touch behind the times with latest news). Absolutely fascinating engineering to see close up.

That is very interesting, as is the ICE development for Hydrogen being run by Toyota and JCB.
All this stuff trickles down eventually

[gt_12345]

The Le Mans coverage for the last 2 years has mentioned Hydrogen quite a lot (one of the commentators knows a lot about it).

[rscott]

wsn03 said:

Red Firecracker said:

And of course the MissionH24 programme that the ACO is pushing in collaboration with GreenGT:

https://www.missionh24.fr/en/

Currently based around an LMP3 car and running in some Michelin Le Mans Cup practice sessions this year (website is a touch behind the times with latest news). Absolutely fascinating engineering to see close up.

That is very interesting, as is the ICE development for Hydrogen being run by Toyota and JCB.
All this stuff trickles down eventually

H24's fuel cell approach looks a better prospect as it's both more economical and has way lower emissions that the hydrogen ICE solutions.

[Red Firecracker]

The problem they (H24) unfortunately face is 'nowism', as in people will look at it and ask/demand "why isn't it faster/ready to compete now?"

To their absolute credit they are doing a lot of dev work in the public eye, not hiding away solely using private track time. Yes, it isn't fast enough to race at the tip of the LMP3 field at the moment, but it has come an awful long way in a relatively short period of time. Like FE, it's not going to be the final solution to the problem, but it is a stepping stone on the route to whatever that is going to be.

Plus, it looks cool when being refueled.

[HustleRussell]

At risk of stating the obvious, synthetic hydrocarbon fuel is a very different kettle of fish from Hydrogen.

The synthesis of oil products is currently a very energy intensive process involving temperatures and pressures well in excess of those found in a conventional refinery, as well as the simultaneous presence of Hydrogen and Oxygen.

Synthesis of oil from gas has been around for nearly 80 years. Elapsed time hasn't yet made this anywhere near cost effective as a way to make fuel oils while dino is available. Putting carbon capture on the front end will only increase the energy requirement.

If F1 can source a fuel which is completely green- with no HC feedstock and no HC used in the production of steam, using only green electrical power, or with the HC fully offset by carbon capture, then that is good press for F1 but the unit cost of that fuel is going to be bonkers and we are currently so far from doing this economically that I'm afraid the technology is in no state to rescue the oil powered car on your driveway.

I know that the idea is that pursuing this avenue precipitates developments which eventually does solve the problem but I don't think we'll all be motoring around in ICE cars powered by synthetic fuel at any time.