The Circuit of the Americas
Discussion
Did anybody else watch the MotoGP races yesterday?
Other than the plane crash of an accident which stopped the Moto3 race, the other thing which struck me was the appalling state of the track surface, apparently due to the sub-soil and track foundations moving.
The "signature" elevation change at Turn 1, and the following section of downhill sweepers is all man-made, and the downhill section is dangerously bumpy, to the extent that there were some riders who didn't want to race, and there were several crashes over the course of the weekend. COTA have undertaken to resurface the first sector, from Turn 1 to the hairpin before the long back straight, which was itself scalped and levelled before the last F1 Grand Prix due to the bumps, but it won't happen until after the Grand Prix, scheduled for later this month.
Will the FIA take note of the potential danger from the current state of the track, and cancel this year's race? Unlikely, I suspect, it's only about three weeks away, so how will the drivers and teams react? The track is the same for everyone, but F1 cars rely on the downforce generated underneath the car, and jumping about over some quite severe bumps which span the width of the track (the bikes were getting one or both wheels off the ground through most of the corners in the downhill sweeps) will result in sudden, catastrophic loss of downforce. This can't be compared with kerb-jumping, which usually affects the inside wheels, which are lightly loaded at the point of impact, and is generally at lower speed, whereas the track section in question here is very fast, and the cars will be generating heavy aero loads while changing direction.
There's the potential for some very high speed crashes if nothing can be done during the next three weeks to improve the track. This is a similar situation to that which occasionally afflicts Montreal, for different reasons, due to the local climate, and it's common for the Canadian organisers to repair sections of the track with quick-setting cement at short notice - whether this is viable at COTA remains to be seen, but perhaps the answer is a combination of scalping and cement. Right now, the circuit doesn't appear to be fit for purpose.
Other than the plane crash of an accident which stopped the Moto3 race, the other thing which struck me was the appalling state of the track surface, apparently due to the sub-soil and track foundations moving.
The "signature" elevation change at Turn 1, and the following section of downhill sweepers is all man-made, and the downhill section is dangerously bumpy, to the extent that there were some riders who didn't want to race, and there were several crashes over the course of the weekend. COTA have undertaken to resurface the first sector, from Turn 1 to the hairpin before the long back straight, which was itself scalped and levelled before the last F1 Grand Prix due to the bumps, but it won't happen until after the Grand Prix, scheduled for later this month.
Will the FIA take note of the potential danger from the current state of the track, and cancel this year's race? Unlikely, I suspect, it's only about three weeks away, so how will the drivers and teams react? The track is the same for everyone, but F1 cars rely on the downforce generated underneath the car, and jumping about over some quite severe bumps which span the width of the track (the bikes were getting one or both wheels off the ground through most of the corners in the downhill sweeps) will result in sudden, catastrophic loss of downforce. This can't be compared with kerb-jumping, which usually affects the inside wheels, which are lightly loaded at the point of impact, and is generally at lower speed, whereas the track section in question here is very fast, and the cars will be generating heavy aero loads while changing direction.
There's the potential for some very high speed crashes if nothing can be done during the next three weeks to improve the track. This is a similar situation to that which occasionally afflicts Montreal, for different reasons, due to the local climate, and it's common for the Canadian organisers to repair sections of the track with quick-setting cement at short notice - whether this is viable at COTA remains to be seen, but perhaps the answer is a combination of scalping and cement. Right now, the circuit doesn't appear to be fit for purpose.
Was it last scalped ahead of 2019 gp? Because there were still issues caused by bumps then: https://www.racefans.net/2019/11/01/cotas-bumps-ar...
And yes, it looks worse now than then so I expect it'll be the major talking point over the weekend. I don't think there's a risk it'll get cancelled nor much chance of the circuit opting for a very expensive fast-tracked fix ahead of F1 arriving.
Most likely there will be a couple of minor incidents in free practice and then the drivers will adapt and navigate the bumps without further incident (but still lots of complaining). It's always been the way at COTA, every time F1 arrives the circuit has changed in some way. They built it on top of a giant mountain of clay so it's literally always in motion, effecting different parts of the circuit in different ways over time.
And yes, it looks worse now than then so I expect it'll be the major talking point over the weekend. I don't think there's a risk it'll get cancelled nor much chance of the circuit opting for a very expensive fast-tracked fix ahead of F1 arriving.
Most likely there will be a couple of minor incidents in free practice and then the drivers will adapt and navigate the bumps without further incident (but still lots of complaining). It's always been the way at COTA, every time F1 arrives the circuit has changed in some way. They built it on top of a giant mountain of clay so it's literally always in motion, effecting different parts of the circuit in different ways over time.
rdjohn said:
My guess is that the downforce in F1 will simply cause the cars to ground on their skid plates.
And the drivers and teams will complain, but as Lewis says “money talks”.
To be fair, in the above video they show how under hard acceleration the bumps were severe enough to kick the rear wheel of the bikes in to the air. The rear wheel of an accelerating bike is normally very well planted as it's fully loaded with the weight of the bike.And the drivers and teams will complain, but as Lewis says “money talks”.
Not sure how that compares with an F1 aero downforce over the same bumps, same speed. But the fact it could lift the rears of the bikes does suggest the bumps are pretty extreme.
rdjohn said:
My guess is that the downforce in F1 will simply cause the cars to ground on their skid plates.
And the drivers and teams will complain, but as Lewis says “money talks”.
Maybe they'll get away with it this year, but imagine next year when a lot more of the downforce is generated from the underside of the car...And the drivers and teams will complain, but as Lewis says “money talks”.
MontyPythonX said:
rdjohn said:
My guess is that the downforce in F1 will simply cause the cars to ground on their skid plates.
And the drivers and teams will complain, but as Lewis says “money talks”.
Maybe they'll get away with it this year, but imagine next year when a lot more of the downforce is generated from the underside of the car...And the drivers and teams will complain, but as Lewis says “money talks”.
The track was built on dodgy land and was known to the track owners - easy cheap land to build a race track. Do a internet search.
COTA's days have got to be numbered anytime soon what with paying extortionate sanction fees and getting little in return.
I'd imagine F1 cars will bottom out and be thrown off their favoured line. It looks more dramatic on bikes because I thinks its because of their high centre of gravity dynamics.
COTA's days have got to be numbered anytime soon what with paying extortionate sanction fees and getting little in return.
I'd imagine F1 cars will bottom out and be thrown off their favoured line. It looks more dramatic on bikes because I thinks its because of their high centre of gravity dynamics.
Mr Tidy said:
The surface may be getting tired, but plenty of racers still love it.
Marc Marquez coped pretty well on Sunday too!
It's a great circuit imo. Very characterful - the drivers also generally love the venue, if not the bumps in recent years..Marc Marquez coped pretty well on Sunday too!
It's crunch time now though. Contract for F1 is up, and if enough people do love it for it to be renewed, they'll have the money to properly address the problems and shore up the track surface for another many years. If it's not renewed...then I expect it'll just get worse and worse, putting off other series until they just give up. Which would be sad, but it's always going to be a high maintenance circuit due to the land it was built upon, so it must always keep busy with major racing series to afford the upkeep.
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