Discussion
So, not wanting to get into the whole VS v Hamilton slagging off stuff, but.....
VS's grid penalty for the clash with Hamilton has basically not meant a thing? As red bull have taken an engine meaning he's starting from the back of the grid anyway.
Surely to be fair to everyone, VS's grid penalty should move to the next race, that would mean it's actually been served? And that it has been a proper penalty. Just seems like a crap rule to me.
edit....Ok, just seen this is being discussed in the other thread so ignore if you want
VS's grid penalty for the clash with Hamilton has basically not meant a thing? As red bull have taken an engine meaning he's starting from the back of the grid anyway.
Surely to be fair to everyone, VS's grid penalty should move to the next race, that would mean it's actually been served? And that it has been a proper penalty. Just seems like a crap rule to me.
edit....Ok, just seen this is being discussed in the other thread so ignore if you want
Edited by nordboy on Friday 24th September 20:58
nordboy said:
So, not wanting to get into the whole VS v Hamilton slagging off stuff, but.....
VS's grid penalty for the clash with Hamilton has basically not meant a thing? As red bull have taken an engine meaning he's starting from the back of the grid anyway.
Surely to be fair to everyone, VS's grid penalty should move to the next race, that would mean it's actually been served? And that it has been a proper penalty. Just seems like a crap rule to me.
I think you need to re-direct your post for the attention of the FIA. It's clearly a BS system at present... VS's grid penalty for the clash with Hamilton has basically not meant a thing? As red bull have taken an engine meaning he's starting from the back of the grid anyway.
Surely to be fair to everyone, VS's grid penalty should move to the next race, that would mean it's actually been served? And that it has been a proper penalty. Just seems like a crap rule to me.
I think we have to assume that the powers that be are happy to allow this to continue to happen - it's little nuances in the rules such as this that allow them to penalise without penalising at all, gives them the ability to gently influence a title battle and keep it as tight as possible.
They knew all along this penalty would never be served.
A three place grid penalty for MV was meaningless anyway. If it was applied at a track that suits the Red Bull then he'd probably end up climbing to first place and staying there. If it was applied at a track that suits the Mercedes he'd probably climb to third, but would most likely end up third without the penalty. It smacks of tokenism.
paulw123 said:
DanielSan said:
It's been amazing to see how many people are suddenly choosing this weekend to have an issue with the engine penalty system
Not the engine penalty system. The penaltysystem for causing an avoidable accident.Cold said:
paulw123 said:
DanielSan said:
It's been amazing to see how many people are suddenly choosing this weekend to have an issue with the engine penalty system
Not the engine penalty system. The penaltysystem for causing an avoidable accident.Cold said:
paulw123 said:
DanielSan said:
It's been amazing to see how many people are suddenly choosing this weekend to have an issue with the engine penalty system
Not the engine penalty system. The penaltysystem for causing an avoidable accident.That is why, at this point, following Max's stunt, it does start to matter that penalties actually are a real deterrent - not the joke non- penalty Max was awarded.
It's not too much to ask that the guy who willfully lands his car on an F1 stars head might expect to actually pay for his choice in some way, is it..??
MitchT said:
A three place grid penalty for MV was meaningless anyway. If it was applied at a track that suits the Red Bull then he'd probably end up climbing to first place and staying there. If it was applied at a track that suits the Mercedes he'd probably climb to third, but would most likely end up third without the penalty. It smacks of tokenism.
In the same way that a 10 sec penalty for LH at Silverstone was pointless when he was comfortably the fastest car on track and had dozens of laps to claw it back and win.In all seriousness, I have to agree that a penalty for an incident should not be able to be served in conjunction with a component penalty, thus cancelling it out. Makes a mockery of the system.
But then, seeing as I've now ventured off on a bit of a tangent, I would also argue that drivers should not be penalised for replacing components due to non-fault accidents/colissions.
PhilAsia said:
Cold said:
paulw123 said:
DanielSan said:
It's been amazing to see how many people are suddenly choosing this weekend to have an issue with the engine penalty system
Not the engine penalty system. The penaltysystem for causing an avoidable accident.PhilAsia said:
Cold said:
paulw123 said:
DanielSan said:
It's been amazing to see how many people are suddenly choosing this weekend to have an issue with the engine penalty system
Not the engine penalty system. The penaltysystem for causing an avoidable accident.It seems odd a penalty is then forgotten if you then get a penalty for the mechanical side of things.
If Red Bull we’re going to take a penalty anyway at some point for the engine, I guess it makes sense to think long term and do it where you’re already on the back foot and see what you can get out the weekend. Limit the loses and hope for clear run for the rest of the races.
But as long as it is the same for everyone, it is what it is. Not to say a review of the system wouldn’t come up with something better.
LM240 said:
6 point lead with 6-7 races to go. I wouldn’t exactly call that a title deciding move.
It seems odd a penalty is then forgotten if you then get a penalty for the mechanical side of things.
If Red Bull we’re going to take a penalty anyway at some point for the engine, I guess it makes sense to think long term and do it where you’re already on the back foot and see what you can get out the weekend. Limit the loses and hope for clear run for the rest of the races.
But as long as it is the same for everyone, it is what it is. Not to say a review of the system wouldn’t come up with something better.
Fully agree. It might come back to bite Red Bull/Max though if it ends up being a wet race as no DRS and more chance of being caught up in a tangle makes it a riskier strategy to start from the back.It seems odd a penalty is then forgotten if you then get a penalty for the mechanical side of things.
If Red Bull we’re going to take a penalty anyway at some point for the engine, I guess it makes sense to think long term and do it where you’re already on the back foot and see what you can get out the weekend. Limit the loses and hope for clear run for the rest of the races.
But as long as it is the same for everyone, it is what it is. Not to say a review of the system wouldn’t come up with something better.
I think the latest forecast is suggesting wet quali and dry race so maybe they're banking on that.
I remember Schumacher receiving a penalty and serving it in the pits at the end of the race - using the pitlane as the finish line.
This particular penalty serving just seems to annoy those who aren't keen on Max and/or Red Bull/Horner. The angst doesn't appear to have any grounding in safety.
This particular penalty serving just seems to annoy those who aren't keen on Max and/or Red Bull/Horner. The angst doesn't appear to have any grounding in safety.
Cold said:
I remember Schumacher receiving a penalty and serving it in the pits at the end of the race - using the pitlane as the finish line.
This particular penalty serving just seems to annoy those who aren't keen on Max and/or Red Bull/Horner. The angst doesn't appear to have any grounding in safety.
peculiar example... Have you checked the rules on that one?This particular penalty serving just seems to annoy those who aren't keen on Max and/or Red Bull/Horner. The angst doesn't appear to have any grounding in safety.
Cold said:
I remember Schumacher receiving a penalty and serving it in the pits at the end of the race - using the pitlane as the finish line.
This particular penalty serving just seems to annoy those who aren't keen on Max and/or Red Bull/Horner. The angst doesn't appear to have any grounding in safety.
The biggest reason for the upset is that it promotes unsafe driving... This particular penalty serving just seems to annoy those who aren't keen on Max and/or Red Bull/Horner. The angst doesn't appear to have any grounding in safety.
TheDeuce said:
The biggest reason for the upset is that it promotes unsafe driving...
If you take both the Silverstone and Monza incidents as they were called by the stewards and take away any personal interpretation of them, then neither of the penalties cost the parties at fault any points/grid positions, so it's nothing new. Not right though I agree.Cold said:
I remember Schumacher receiving a penalty and serving it in the pits at the end of the race - using the pitlane as the finish line.
British GP I think. IIRC, he'd been given a 5 second stop go so built up enough of a lead to enable him to come in on the final lap, serve the penalty and power away crossing the start/finish line but in the pit lane recording a finish. Had he done this a lap earlier the time taken to rejoin the race would ave dropped him down outside of the podium. They changed the rules on this afterwards.There's always penalties that don't work in some situations. I'm trying to recall a few years back Hamilton getting a 10 second penalty for something. I forget the actual situation but a safety care deployed on the lap he came in ended up not only nullifying the penalty but giving him an advantage.
As I said in another thread, it's my opinion that if the championship leader collides with, and eliminates from the race, his nearest rival, then his fine should be to have the points difference taken away if the stewards decide he was at fault.
(In other words, following the Italian GP, Hamilton would have been level with Verstappen.)
(In other words, following the Italian GP, Hamilton would have been level with Verstappen.)
TheDeuce said:
The biggest reason for the upset is that it promotes unsafe driving...
I find such a noble reply difficult to take seriously. Let's be honest here, if these recent events had involved a Haas driver and an Alpha Tauri driver instead of Max and Hamilton they would have passed by without comment. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff