Old Linn amps

[Mars]

I've been buying up old Linn amps from the early 1990s. Back then I couldn't afford them but they're such great value on eBay now that I couldn't resist.

The power amps I bought - LK100s - have been utterly successful. I have three now, although I have bought more than that and sent a few back because they were electrically noisy (despite my checking first with the sellers whether they were "quiet"). I kept three because they were so good it seemed a shame to let them go.

I bought a Karik CD player too - again a perfectly-sounding example.

But I'm struggling to find a "quiet" Kairn pre-amp. I borrowed and tested a friend's Kairn which was utterly silent when introduced into my system, but three that I have bought off eBay have all had to go back because of various hisses, hums and buzzes. The Kairn is claimed to be a "passive" pre-amp, which I assume means that the signal paths are in no way further amplified, and that the volume is only attenuated. This claim usually means the signal doesn't become "tainted" by any filtration or other noise, however there's certainly induced noise in the ones I've bought and tried.

What's my question?.. well, I guess I would like to know if my expectations are likely to be met? The last Kairn I bought (and I'm sending back this afternoon) has a very high/late serial number, and it was the most expensive one of all those I've tested, so I'm feeling a bit down about the whole thing. If this one isn't any good, am I likely to find one that fits the bill?

There are two others I'm looking at but my questions to the sellers, specifically about noise levels, have only been answered in vague terms ("it's been tested", or "perfectly functional"). Neither of them are local, or even within a half day's drive away, so I can't test before I buy.

Any thoughts apart from "30 year old kit will likely be crap".

[BritishBlitz87]

Mars said:

I've been buying up old Linn amps from the early 1990s. Back then I couldn't afford them but they're such great value on eBay now that I couldn't resist.

The power amps I bought - LK100s - have been utterly successful. I have three now, although I have bought more than that and sent a few back because they were electrically noisy (despite my checking first with the sellers whether they were "quiet"). I kept three because they were so good it seemed a shame to let them go.

I bought a Karik CD player too - again a perfectly-sounding example.

But I'm struggling to find a "quiet" Kairn pre-amp. I borrowed and tested a friend's Kairn which was utterly silent when introduced into my system, but three that I have bought off eBay have all had to go back because of various hisses, hums and buzzes. The Kairn is claimed to be a "passive" pre-amp, which I assume means that the signal paths are in no way further amplified, and that the volume is only attenuated. This claim usually means the signal doesn't become "tainted" by any filtration or other noise, however there's certainly induced noise in the ones I've bought and tried.

What's my question?.. well, I guess I would like to know if my expectations are likely to be met? The last Kairn I bought (and I'm sending back this afternoon) has a very high/late serial number, and it was the most expensive one of all those I've tested, so I'm feeling a bit down about the whole thing. If this one isn't any good, am I likely to find one that fits the bill?

There are two others I'm looking at but my questions to the sellers, specifically about noise levels, have only been answered in vague terms ("it's been tested", or "perfectly functional"). Neither of them are local, or even within a half day's drive away, so I can't test before I buy.

Any thoughts apart from "30 year old kit will likely be crap".

It is unlikely, 30 years tends to be the average service life of well-built consumer electronics before things like capacitors start to go
. Just take one to be serviced and you'll be good for the next 30 years.

[gifdy]

Mars said:

I've been buying up old Linn amps from the early 1990s. Back then I couldn't afford them but they're such great value on eBay now that I couldn't resist.

The power amps I bought - LK100s - have been utterly successful. I have three now, although I have bought more than that and sent a few back because they were electrically noisy (despite my checking first with the sellers whether they were "quiet"). I kept three because they were so good it seemed a shame to let them go.

I bought a Karik CD player too - again a perfectly-sounding example.

But I'm struggling to find a "quiet" Kairn pre-amp. I borrowed and tested a friend's Kairn which was utterly silent when introduced into my system, but three that I have bought off eBay have all had to go back because of various hisses, hums and buzzes. The Kairn is claimed to be a "passive" pre-amp, which I assume means that the signal paths are in no way further amplified, and that the volume is only attenuated. This claim usually means the signal doesn't become "tainted" by any filtration or other noise, however there's certainly induced noise in the ones I've bought and tried.

What's my question?.. well, I guess I would like to know if my expectations are likely to be met? The last Kairn I bought (and I'm sending back this afternoon) has a very high/late serial number, and it was the most expensive one of all those I've tested, so I'm feeling a bit down about the whole thing. If this one isn't any good, am I likely to find one that fits the bill?

There are two others I'm looking at but my questions to the sellers, specifically about noise levels, have only been answered in vague terms ("it's been tested", or "perfectly functional"). Neither of them are local, or even within a half day's drive away, so I can't test before I buy.

Any thoughts apart from "30 year old kit will likely be crap".

I've got a bunch of LK280s in my setup - great amps. Anyway, I haven't bought a pre-amp for many years as my LK1 is still going strong however the induced noise is likely to be old electrolytic capacitors that have dried out. I've had this before on a sub-woofer and know the effect only too well from my years on the bench as a radio engineer. I doubt there is any way you can tell beforehand as it will come to the environment they've been in and how long they have been operated. If it's spent it's life sitting on top of a power amp then they will dry out quicker.

I don't know what they mean by 'passive' but if there's no active gain then it isn't a pre-amp and won't be doing very much for you. The idea of having low noise gain is so that the noise in the higher power amps or switches don't impact your signal to noise as much. I'll maybe find a circuit diagram to see what's in there. Certainly the LK1 has discrete low noise amplifiers. The large electrolytic caps on the power supply are usually the ones that go first and introduce mains hum.

If you're handy with a soldering iron, one approach would be to negotiate the price down and spend some time replacing the main electrolytic capacitors. It's not a major job if you've a bit of experience - clearing out the holes for the cap pins is usually the hardest bit but very manegeable with some solder wick or a solder sucker. Also worth going round and touching up some of the other solder joints as you can sometimes get dry joints after temperature cycling over the 30 years.

Anyway - good luck !

[Mars]

Thanks. I might see if I can find one at a knock-down price with the expectation that I need to replace a load of caps. I can manage that very easily.

I have paid good money for those I've tried so far though, which is why they've all gone back.

I'm less interested in any amplification as I am interested in source-switching capabilities from a pre-amp. Having bought the LK100s and the Karik, I thought a Kairn would match that lot quite nicely but to be honest, if it doesn't perform, I'd rather buy something else for that purpose. I have a fair bit of other "non-Linn" kit too including a Nakamichi RX505 (needs servicing) and a Pioneer RT-909 reel-to-reel, so it doesn't all have to match.

Cheers.

[LP12]

My Kairn III is uterly silent.

I suggest you get in touch with Darren at Class A in Sheffield: 0114 2726466

http://www.hifi-repairs.com/

Darran serviced my LK1 / Dirak a few years ago (and which is still going strong having given it to my niece.)

Edited by LP12 on Tuesday 21st September 21:15

[Mars]

LP12 said:

My Kairn III is uterly silent.

I suggest you get in touch with Darren at Class A in Sheffield: 0114 2726466

http://www.hifi-repairs.com/

Darran serviced my LK1 / Dirak a few years ago (and which is still going strong hving given it to my niece.

Has your Kairn been serviced/repaired or is it untouched from new?

[LP12]

I bought my Kairn some 10 years ago off Ebay. So far it is untouched.

Edited by LP12 on Tuesday 21st September 21:18

[Mars]

LP12 said:

I bought my Kairn some 10 years ago off Ebay. So far it is untouched.

Edited by LP12 on Tuesday 21st September 21:18

OK, that gives me hope of finding a good one then. Thanks.

[LP12]

YW

[Jenny Tailor]

Capacitor replacement is very very simple.


Just treat them as consumables.

[Pistom]

I've got a Karik, Kairn and LK100s in my loft. I'm tempted to get them out reading this.

I wonder what they sound like these days?

[LP12]

If you have a Karik, a Numerik is a worthwhile upgrade.

Edited by LP12 on Sunday 26th September 18:38

[Pistom]

LP12 said:

If you have a Karik, a Nuerik is a worthwhile upgrade.

Good idea http://www.hi-fi-insight.com/linn-numerik-dac.html

[theboss]

I'm in a couple of Linn owners Facebook groups which are good for finding S/H gear without negotiating ebay.

Some of the more modern amps like the 5105 and 5125 are also trading inexpensively and are very good.

[Pistom]

What speakers are people using with the LK100?

[Mars]

Pistom said:

What speakers are people using with the LK100?

Mission 751s in my case. Three pairs in fact.

[Mars]

Jenny Tailor said:

Capacitor replacement is very very simple.


Just treat them as consumables.

Yes if I already owned a Kairn but I'm not paying £600 for one and then performing surgery on it.

[Mars]

Finally found one. It turned up today and is nearly silent in operation.

Well, no hisses or buzzes but there are little clicks heard when you change the volume, and a quiet squeal when you turn it off. But even my friend's Kairn does this, as did the other two I bought and returned. I might have a look at the caps one day. Feels like a Christmas holiday project.

Anyway, it's good. I'm pleased.

Any thoughts on the phase inversion? Can you really tell the difference? I did reverse the polarity of my speaker cables while testing one of those I previously bought but I'm fairly sure I couldn't tell the difference. Some people on other forums claim you notice a loss of bass-drum impact so I put some Police on (Copeland's style involves a lot of very dynamic sounds) and I thought it sounds as good as always.

[Pistom]

Mars said:

Finally found one. It turned up today and is nearly silent in operation.

Well, no hisses or buzzes but there are little clicks heard when you change the volume, and a quiet squeal when you turn it off. But even my friend's Kairn does this, as did the other two I bought and returned. I might have a look at the caps one day. Feels like a Christmas holiday project.

Anyway, it's good. I'm pleased.

Any thoughts on the phase inversion? Can you really tell the difference? I did reverse the polarity of my speaker cables while testing one of those I previously bought but I'm fairly sure I couldn't tell the difference. Some people on other forums claim you notice a loss of bass-drum impact so I put some Police on (Copeland's style involves a lot of very dynamic sounds) and I thought it sounds as good as always.

I've not messed with phase inversion for years but back when I did, it was very noticeable.

[theboss]

When I had a Kairn I had to correct the phase inversion by wiring the speakers out of phase and remember it making a fair difference. Amazing what you can remember from 20 years ago!