Move away from run flats?

[T1berious]

So I’m at the point where the tyres are a few months away from being changed on a 440i.

We’ve previously just gone with original fitment tyres but last winter and the fact summer doesn’t last that long in the UK am thinking of going for something a bit more “All Season”.

Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be anything in the RFT market that matches the Michelin Cross Climate for example.

So just move away from run flats? And accept I’ll be using a can of get you home spray?

Any advice greatly appreciated

[TheBinarySheep]

T1berious said:

So I’m at the point where the tyres are a few months away from being changed on a 440i.

We’ve previously just gone with original fitment tyres but last winter and the fact summer doesn’t last that long in the UK am thinking of going for something a bit more “All Season”.

Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be anything in the RFT market that matches the Michelin Cross Climate for example.

So just move away from run flats? And accept I’ll be using a can of get you home spray?

Any advice greatly appreciated

I'm just tagging myself in this as this is something I'd like to know as well. I'm in a similar situation. We picked up our 330i earlier in year, and while it was only spring time, I found the backend stepping out a bit in the cold/wet conditions. It's caused me to think about this winter.

[helix402]

If you read my 335d thread I tried non run flats and they were terrible. Lots of people prefer them but based on my experience if the car was designed for run flats I’d keep them. (Unless you change the whole suspension for a set up designed for non run flats such as Birds).

[d_a_n1979]

helix402 said:

If you read my 335d thread I tried non run flats and they were terrible. Lots of people prefer them but based on my experience if the car was designed for run flats I’d keep them. (Unless you change the whole suspension for a set up designed for non run flats such as Birds).

That I can't get my head around

Not doubting you; but everyone I know that's had runflats (My Dad with his X3 3.0D now on non RFTs, marked improvement and much better ride & handling on 19s); my Father in law, F10 530D, RFTs to non-RFTs and has said the same); I've been out in both cars many times and they really do drive & handle better

My pals E91 335D has gone from 19" RFTs to non RFTs (PS4s) and the car is just so much better; smoother, quieter and handles better too

Do you think it could be differing compounds in the tyres and firmness of sidewalls that affected your experience?

[TheBinarySheep]

d_a_n1979 said:

That I can't get my head around

Not doubting you; but everyone I know that's had runflats (My Dad with his X3 3.0D now on non RFTs, marked improvement and much better ride & handling on 19s); my Father in law, F10 530D, RFTs to non-RFTs and has said the same); I've been out in both cars many times and they really do drive & handle better

My pals E91 335D has gone from 19" RFTs to non RFTs (PS4s) and the car is just so much better; smoother, quieter and handles better too

Do you think it could be differing compounds in the tyres and firmness of sidewalls that affected your experience?

One thing I've noticed, and maybe this is because of having RFT's. When driving down B roads I can feel the front of the car pulling me all over the place, and I wonder now if that is because of the stiffer sidewalls of the RFT's? If so, I think I'd be happy to get rid of them as to me it makes the car feel unstable.

[d_a_n1979]

TheBinarySheep said:

d_a_n1979 said:

That I can't get my head around

Not doubting you; but everyone I know that's had runflats (My Dad with his X3 3.0D now on non RFTs, marked improvement and much better ride & handling on 19s); my Father in law, F10 530D, RFTs to non-RFTs and has said the same); I've been out in both cars many times and they really do drive & handle better

My pals E91 335D has gone from 19" RFTs to non RFTs (PS4s) and the car is just so much better; smoother, quieter and handles better too

Do you think it could be differing compounds in the tyres and firmness of sidewalls that affected your experience?

One thing I've noticed, and maybe this is because of having RFT's. When driving down B roads I can feel the front of the car pulling me all over the place, and I wonder now if that is because of the stiffer sidewalls of the RFT's? If so, I think I'd be happy to get rid of them as to me it makes the car feel unstable.

Exactly what my pal and FIL stated; we've a lot of rough country roads local to us here just outside of Preston, Lancs and some of them have weird camber.

My pals 335D touring was all over the show at times and that was with more or less all new RFTs

He's said it hardly happens now he's on non RFT PS4s

[4004]

I would be quite surprised if a particular suspension setup was "designed for runflats" and somehow got worse without them.
Runflats have come a long way, but are a still a compromise - I got a bulge on one, but it might have been the stiff sidewall that saved the wheel.

Still, I found a set of PS4/4s threw me about the ruts similarly to how RFT Eagle F1s did, especially when compared to Pilot Alpin. RFT might be worse in that regard, but it wasn't much worse with the F1s.

Don't always have to write tyres off with sealant, I've found sometimes compressor top ups were enough to get me to a garage.
If you really think the Crossclimate or some particular non RFT would be better/safer, seems like the benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks?

Edited by 4004 on Thursday 26th August 12:13

[smashy]

I do 400/500 miles a week in my f30 330d. I got rid of the Bridgestone runflats after 3 weeks awful in every way noisy crashy etc and put michelin ps3s on.


After 3 years I went back to Runflats with trepidation and massive amounts of research on forums ,reviews etc I went Goodyear Eagle F1 asymetric 3 and luckily they are very ,very good, so good I would never bother going back to normal and runflats have saved me a good few times.

[Swervin_Mervin]

9yrs on non-RFTs on my 330i. Specifically on summer tyres as well. Would never dream of going back. Cracked rims, increased wear on suspension elements, less likely to be rapairable, tramlining, increased road noise, awful handling at lower tread depths and, in particular, awful handling in colder conditions.

All offset against the slight risk of a blowout?

[T1berious]

4004 said:

I would be quite surprised if a particular suspension setup was "designed for runflats" and somehow got worse without them.
Runflats have come a long way, but are a still a compromise - I got a bulge on one, but it might have been the stiff sidewall that saved the wheel.

Don't always have to write tyres off with sealant, I've found sometimes compressor top ups were enough to get me to a garage.
If you really think the Crossclimate or some particular non RFT would be better/safer, seems like the benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks?

This is the bit I'm a bit confused about. I guess you could argue the car was developed for RFT's and its chassis was setup accordingly? But would a less wielding sidewall make that big a difference? When we ran winters on our old car they made a huge difference but that was also going to a 17" rim with a winter tyre from a 19" rim. Yes it lent more when cornering but in the wet the stopping distance felt halved.

I've gone to PS4's on the other car and in teh wet it feels way more usable.

Just doing some research on RFT all seasons

[ro250]

I'm a first-timer on RFTs on my new-to-me 440i. Of course, the whole car is new to me so I cannot compare how it would be withour RFTs but so far I don't find the ride bad at all (maybe adaptive dampers help as it is harder in Sport). It definitely tramlines though, which caught me out first time it did it. That said, cars with wide tyres often do that anyway.

My main concern is at about £170 a corner, getting a puncture is going to be costly on the Potenzas.

[T1berious]

Welcome!

Agreed, in comfort mode it isn't that bad, my issue is more the fact that the OEM rubber is great in summer but frankly, a hazard in winter. Previously we had a set of winters but the rims won't get past the brake caliper on the 440i so you kind of either have to go Pirelli WINTER SOTTOZERO™ 3 and hope conditions merit them or roll the dice ditching the runflats and going for an all season option

[ukpolak]

Had 4 x 20” RFTs on a 440i GC. Lasted 12k miles over 4 years but I blame on mis-alignment causes by pot holes locally. Uneven wear and the odd minor crack and the garage recommendation was to change all four.

£1100 for 4 RFT tyres and £50 alignment but the tyre place said non RFTs would have been around half the price so I don’t know what I’ll do next time around.

I had 2 slow punctures in an old Z4 on 19” RFTs and they got me to the nearest garage to have them replaced thankfully. My issue with the 20” is that they’re never held in store so it’s always a 24 hour turnaround. Even local BMW dealer didn’t have any 20” RFTs in their garage.

I think I must just be used to the ride and it doesn’t bother me that much. I would agree that the chances of a blow out are minimal but I know if you move away from RFTs then it is recommended that you carry a spare somewhere on board so something else to consider.

[Waynester]

I have just had new 19” Bridgestone Taranzo RFTs fitted to my 630i. The guy at the tyre place said ideally i need to stay with RFTs as that was what the car was designed to run with. I wanted to fit non-RFTs. Hmm..I thought.
Anyway, I am fitting new 20” aftermarket alloys and Eibach suspension with non-RFTs. Booked in with a BM specialist for Sept 9th. So I am genuinely curious to see how it drives after.

[ro250]

I know it's often dismissed but I cannot help but think that if a car is designed to run with RFTs then that's a reason to keep them. I don't think the 440i came in anything but RFTs?

I've no doubt non-RFT will give a smoother ride but that's a different point as to whether the handling characteristics will remain as the manufacturer intended.

[ukpolak]

Whilst I can’t comment on other 4 or 3 series models, checking out X3s on the BMW configurator has all sorts of options as well as the AUC site.

2.0i with 19” non RFTs but a spare wheel included under the description field, M40i (3.0L) with 20” or 21” RFTs and some M40is with non RFTs. These are in AUCs which don’t appear to have been modified from factory, ie what was supplied with the car.

All I can say when I baulked at the £1100 for 4 x RFT tyres, the tyre shop said that with a rear wheel 3.0L straight-six, having expensive tyres and changing reasonably frequently is par for the course.

My wife has a 1.4L Q3 doing 10k miles / year up and down the motorway, non RFT 18”, and she got 45k miles out of a full set (£450!).

[ac13]

In my F30 330D the change from RF to Eagle F1 NRF really changed the behaviour of the car. The feel was much softer as the tyre sidewalls are softer. So the car rolled a bit more but was also more comfortable over bumps.

Having then moved to a Birds Auto setup the suspension was transformed again. Now the car is still soft over imperfections but it rolls less.

The difference in feel is huge. In the old RF setup going into a corner the car would lurch into the corner and then settle. With the NRF and Birds Auto setup the car flows much more into a corner and I have much more confidence in how it will behave.

Hope this helps

[T1berious]

ac13 said:

In my F30 330D the change from RF to Eagle F1 NRF really changed the behaviour of the car. The feel was much softer as the tyre sidewalls are softer. So the car rolled a bit more but was also more comfortable over bumps.

Having then moved to a Birds Auto setup the suspension was transformed again. Now the car is still soft over imperfections but it rolls less.

The difference in feel is huge. In the old RF setup going into a corner the car would lurch into the corner and then settle. With the NRF and Birds Auto setup the car flows much more into a corner and I have much more confidence in how it will behave.

Hope this helps

That does help, a lot as it goes.

So really, you're looking at:

1. get some non run flats
2. get the suspension sorted to accommodate NRF's
3. enjoy the car

I guess that kind of makes sense and I'm liking the fact you used a phased approach and got to a point you're happy with it.

Are you using the original rims?

[smashy]

I think "the suspension set up is for runflats therefore..." is an urban myth,in europe you could by bmw's with normal tyres as an option where we in tbe uk were stuck with runflats

[Swervin_Mervin]

ro250 said:

I'm a first-timer on RFTs on my new-to-me 440i. Of course, the whole car is new to me so I cannot compare how it would be withour RFTs but so far I don't find the ride bad at all (maybe adaptive dampers help as it is harder in Sport). It definitely tramlines though, which caught me out first time it did it. That said, cars with wide tyres often do that anyway.

My main concern is at about £170 a corner, getting a puncture is going to be costly on the Potenzas.

A puncture doesn't mean the tyre is dead. Non-rft are typically easier to get repaired than RFT thereby meaning you may end up shelling out less with a non-rft.

RFT only come into their own in the event of a significant puncture or blowout and how often does that actually happen?