15-year old overturns ASBO
Discussion
Another collision of Human Rights legislation vs ridiculous Labour social control. The Govt must be wondering why they ever signed up to it...
And as for parents having to take time off work to look after their suspended brats, which is the daftest idea ever, why not just let the school discipline them like they used to? Bit of high-speed chalk on the head, sorted.
It's all perfectly simple - they need to be properly brought up and whacked when they misbehave. It's worked for millennia. A few years of New Labour and it's all gone pear-shaped. Reaping the whirlwind, and remarkably quickly too.
Earlier this year a 12 y/o girl kicked and fractured the leg of a friend of mine - and she cheered as she was showing off to her mates. WTF's gone wrong?
>> Edited by simpo two on Wednesday 20th July 20:04
And as for parents having to take time off work to look after their suspended brats, which is the daftest idea ever, why not just let the school discipline them like they used to? Bit of high-speed chalk on the head, sorted.
It's all perfectly simple - they need to be properly brought up and whacked when they misbehave. It's worked for millennia. A few years of New Labour and it's all gone pear-shaped. Reaping the whirlwind, and remarkably quickly too.
Earlier this year a 12 y/o girl kicked and fractured the leg of a friend of mine - and she cheered as she was showing off to her mates. WTF's gone wrong?
>> Edited by simpo two on Wednesday 20th July 20:04
simpo two said:I agree with the first bit, but not with the second, Simpo. I've never whacked mine and I'd put their manners and behaviour up for close scrutiny against any children I've ever met. However, 'properly brought up' is the key phrase. As long as 'parents
they need to be properly brought up and whacked when they misbehave.
' think it's all very funny when their little darlings do awfully grown up things like swearing and answering back, we are lost. When I see brain-dead grown ups laughing 'cos their four year old says 'F
K' it reminds me of people dressing chimps up in clothes for some reason.........Ferg said:
However, 'properly brought up' is the key phrase. As long as 'parents
Spot on Ferg, except I suspect the problem is that the poor kids have chimps dressed up in cloths for parents! My two teenage sons comment regularly on the lack of manners exhibited by many of their peers.
On a pedantic note, the kid didn't overturn an ABSO, it was CURFEW legislation.
Prof Beard
I thought there would have already been a thread on this so I didn't write one.
This ruling is ridiculous!!! Don't know what else to say now.
I was talking to the head teacher of a school next to us asking when they were going to come round and clean the graffitti (sp?). While I was talking I asked what they had said to the kids as there weren't as many skiving off as usual. She said the exams were finished so they didn't have to be at school. I mentioned that there was a group that if they passed the exams then it would be an absolute travesty as it was obvious that they weren't being educated. She flew off the handle at me saying who was I to query the way she ran her school etc. In the end she pretty much hung up on me!!!
I say bring back the cowhide and proper school discipline. Some of the neighbours are scared to even walk to the shops during school hours, and I supposedly live in a nice part of town.
This ruling is ridiculous!!! Don't know what else to say now.
I was talking to the head teacher of a school next to us asking when they were going to come round and clean the graffitti (sp?). While I was talking I asked what they had said to the kids as there weren't as many skiving off as usual. She said the exams were finished so they didn't have to be at school. I mentioned that there was a group that if they passed the exams then it would be an absolute travesty as it was obvious that they weren't being educated. She flew off the handle at me saying who was I to query the way she ran her school etc. In the end she pretty much hung up on me!!!
I say bring back the cowhide and proper school discipline. Some of the neighbours are scared to even walk to the shops during school hours, and I supposedly live in a nice part of town.
Our class hard-nut was cut down to size in a chemistry lesson one day when the teacher invited him to sniff a gas-jar of chlorine... hard-nut staggers back to his seat spluttering with tears streaming down his face.
Except that today the teacher would be charged with assault and suspended, the class would get no chemistry lessons, thus failing their GCSEs, and the thug would get £5,000 compensation
Except that today the teacher would be charged with assault and suspended, the class would get no chemistry lessons, thus failing their GCSEs, and the thug would get £5,000 compensation
Prof Beard said:
Sorry folks - you are copping out by blaming the teaching profession here
No, it's the prevailing socialist/permissive thought of 'children know best' that's doing the damage. As standards fall, parents pass lower standards on to their children etc, so with each generation it becomes worse. It is fuelled by Govt legislation that refuses to address the problem but puts one leaky patch upon another.
Extended licensing hours - why?
Tax-free gambling - why?
To keep the masses happy?
simpo two said:
Sorry folks - you are copping out by blaming the teaching profession here
No, it's the prevailing socialist/permissive thought of 'children know best' that's doing the damage. As standards fall, parents pass lower standards on to their children etc, so with each generation it becomes worse.
Apart from the fact that it's nothing to do with socialism (I don't think children know best and never have, and doubt other socialist do), I agree with you Simpo Two - just make me happy - call it soggy liberal/permissive!
BUT I would point out that the parents of most of these dreadful scrotes are the product of the Thatcher years and exhibit the "f**k you, I'm looking out for number one" attitude inculcated in the population by the lady in question.
Prof Beard
Ahhh..corporal punishment. Discipline is the responsibility of parents and teachers, both. But a good bit of parenting takes place before they ever get to school, and if they haven't been taught how to behave by the time they interact with other kids, it will be a hard road ahead. There needs to be real consequences when kids misbehave, and parents need to get on it when they start acting up, not try to reason with them or wait to see if they calm down on their own. My sister and her husband have actually had to spank their kids when they are really, really bad, but mostly they try to avoid it. On the other hand, they tend to allow things to degrade a bit before they get on their kids' cases. My feeling is that when little Johnny or Susie is starting on a tantrum, nip it in the bud. Don't wait until full blown hysteria while you try a half hour of pointless coaxing. Tell them what's allowed, what their choices are, and don't let them think for a second that there's a chance they will get what they want by wearing you down with screaming and crying. There has to be some follow-through when they choose to behave badly. Like, loss of privileges.
My feeling is that kids need to know that they can think/feel whatever they want, but you can certainly get in big trouble for what you say and do about it. That's the point of sending kids to their rooms, etc: to teach them what is and isn't appropriate and how to handle their feelings. I don't know what these parents who don't bother with discipline are thinking. You aren't crushing your child's personal development by enforcing some rules. Kids don't know how to act or cope with anything, that's why they have parents to teach them, not placate them.
I swear, it seems like some people have kids like they would add a pool to their house--some kind of status symbol. Raising kids is hard and requires dedication, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for these half-ass parents who wonder what happened when their kid is in juvenile detention after years of letting them do whatever they want. It's a real shame. It's like people thinking of being parents should register, take classes, and get a license like you would to be able to drive a car. People don't know anything when they decide to have kids.
My feeling is that kids need to know that they can think/feel whatever they want, but you can certainly get in big trouble for what you say and do about it. That's the point of sending kids to their rooms, etc: to teach them what is and isn't appropriate and how to handle their feelings. I don't know what these parents who don't bother with discipline are thinking. You aren't crushing your child's personal development by enforcing some rules. Kids don't know how to act or cope with anything, that's why they have parents to teach them, not placate them.
I swear, it seems like some people have kids like they would add a pool to their house--some kind of status symbol. Raising kids is hard and requires dedication, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for these half-ass parents who wonder what happened when their kid is in juvenile detention after years of letting them do whatever they want. It's a real shame. It's like people thinking of being parents should register, take classes, and get a license like you would to be able to drive a car. People don't know anything when they decide to have kids.
Prof Beard said:
BUT I would point out that the parents of most of these dreadful scrotes are the product of the Thatcher years and exhibit the "f**k you, I'm looking out for number one" attitude inculcated in the population by the lady in question.
I would say it actually started with Wilson in the 1960s. I was a student in the 'Thatcher years' and got a grant to study for my degree, which is more than you can say for this lot. But A-levels were actually hard then so not many made the grade. Now that every moron gets a degree, naturally there's not enough loot to go round.
its kind of funny that labour combine this control freakery like asbos and stopping us looking at websites yet they caused the problems they are trying to solve in the first place. they let in human rights legislation and lots of leftie ideas without thinking what the results would be. sooner or later there will be a reaction from the silent majority.
Jane Fletcher said:
sooner or later there will be a reaction from the silent majority.
Hope so. Mrs Ed22 is a teacher and believe me, her and her colleagues have little truck with the attitudes of either the kids or some of the parents. Some parents shout and physically assault teachers if they tell them something they don't want to hear.
Problem is, teachers are ruled by DofES; ruled by 'New labour, new laws'; they aren't allowed to do anything to discipline the kids and hence the bright ones who want to learn are held back
I'm glad that I was scared of the teachers (cane etc) when I was young. I'd not have learned much if I could have done as I pleased.
So you could argue that its actually abuse to have such a permissive environment; the kids will surely pay for it if they leave school with no quals or social skills. Who'd employ them??
A woman at work was telling me about her little girl being assaulted by some brat at school. This kid wrapped his hands around the little girls throat. The teacher had to 'reason' with the kid to remove his hands. Apparently, they daren't even touch the kids.
When my colleague complained to the school she was told 'he's had a hard life'. Something to do with abuse by parents.
In a strange twist of irony it later transpired that her dad is actually employed by us!!
When my colleague complained to the school she was told 'he's had a hard life'. Something to do with abuse by parents.
In a strange twist of irony it later transpired that her dad is actually employed by us!!
simpo two said:
Another collision of Human Rights legislation vs ridiculous Labour social control. The Govt must be wondering why they ever signed up to it...
ABSO ban troublemakers from the areas they cause trouble in, what is your alternative to them?.
Please no cr*p about how they should receive a damn good thrashing. In the world we live in that is no longer possible.
We cannot lock them all up either at present because there is not sufficient prison space-so in the short term please-what is a viable alternative?
Alternative is bring back the stocks and pummel with wrotten veggies 
Nothing like good old "name and shame" in the community.
If people had that done to them, they couldn't bare to show their face again.
The fact is people don't show themselves to the community anymore. The effect it hugely, but the punishment is so dis-associated with what they have done.
A good public humiliation from the people who they live with in the community and the people they effect would do wonders I bet.
Might sound harsh, but you'd have no "litte tw4ts" within 6 months that way.
But BLiars lovely little world of silly "bills" to try solve every little problem under the sun just keeps getting better doesn't it
Need a government that isn't spineless, not a bunch of popularity chasing retards who think they are doing a "spiffing" job.
Dave
Nothing like good old "name and shame" in the community.
If people had that done to them, they couldn't bare to show their face again.
The fact is people don't show themselves to the community anymore. The effect it hugely, but the punishment is so dis-associated with what they have done.
A good public humiliation from the people who they live with in the community and the people they effect would do wonders I bet.
Might sound harsh, but you'd have no "litte tw4ts" within 6 months that way.
But BLiars lovely little world of silly "bills" to try solve every little problem under the sun just keeps getting better doesn't it
Need a government that isn't spineless, not a bunch of popularity chasing retards who think they are doing a "spiffing" job.
Dave
JagLover said:
Please no cr*p about how they should receive a damn good thrashing. In the world we live in that is no longer possible.
We cannot lock them all up either at present because there is not sufficient prison space-so in the short term please-what is a viable alternative?
I think a lot of the posts here suggest that this is the reason for the trouble - we can no longer use any meaningful sanction because of ridiculous nanny state interfering legislation that makes criminals victims - the attitude of New Labour to law-abiding citizens proves the point IMHO - Tony's cronies see decent people as a herd of cows to be milked when required, but otherwise ignored and left to their own devices. That way they get to concentrate on simply staying in power.
The solution? Reverse all the namby-pamby pampering to the minorities legislation, stop society becoming a feather bed for the unruly, ignorant and criminal elements. Make life a rewarding experience for those that behave and work hard, and put soacial sanctions on those that don't.
So, in practical terms, for example - a chav is caught for driving an uninsured car etc - lose licence, make him do proper community services (i.e clean up his own graffiti, help old ladies with their shopping etc, clean out public toilets, sweep the streets etc) and crush his car. If he buys another one and doesn't insure it, take it off him and crush that too.
And parents? Compulsory parenting classes, including getting them into schools to be taught basic reading/writing skills and manners, and to allow them to see what their little darlings get up to.
Essentially, stop the institutionalised protection and pereferential treatment of what are simply badly behaved people.
Oh, and make benefits means tested. If scumbags can afford to buy
-off sized TVs, and smoke 40/day and go to the pub most nights, then why should the hard-working taxpayer line their pockets? if they step out of line, benefits are frozen to pay for any damage they have caused. Make them suffer for their actions - not excuse them, 'cos they've had a hard life. I've had a hard lfe and poor upbringing - I'm not a layabout criminal dosser.
>> Edited by nubbin on Thursday 21st July 10:17
JAGLOVER SAYS...
I agree that there is a great deal that can be done to tackle the problem. Top of my list would be building far more prisons and young offenders institutions and restoring discipline to schools.
ABSO's are merely a short term stop gap measure, but that does not make them harmful, merely short term and not terrible effective.
Whoops - sorry Jaglover - this should be your psot but i edited it to add some of my afterthoughts and it looks like I did it wrong. Sorry!
>> Edited by nubbin on Thursday 21st July 10:21
nubbin said:
I think a lot of the posts here suggest that this is the reason for the trouble - we can no longer use any meaningful sanction because of ridiculous nanny state interfering legislation that makes criminals victims - the attitude of New Labour to law-abiding citizens proves the point IMHO - Tony's cronies see decent people as a herd of cows to be milked when required, but otherwise ignored and left to their own devices. That way they get to concentrate on simply staying in power.
The solution? Reverse all the namby-pamby pampering to the minorities legislation, stop society becoming a feather bed for the unruly, ignorant and criminal elements. Make life a rewarding experience for those that behave and work hard, and put soacial sanctions on those that don't.
So, in practical terms, for example - a chav is caught for driving an uninsured car etc - lose licence, make him do proper community services (i.e clean up his own graffiti, help old ladies with their shopping etc, clean out public toilets, sweep the streets etc) and crush his car. If he buys another one and doesn't insure it, take it off him and crush that too.
And parents? Compulsory parenting classes, including getting them into schools to be taught basic reading/writing skills and manners, and to allow them to see what their little darlings get up to.
Essentially, stop the institutionalised protection and pereferential treatment of what are simply badly behaved people.
Oh, and make benefits means tested. If scumbags can afford to buy -off sized TVs, and smoke 40/day and go to the pub most nights, then why should the hard-working taxpayer line their pockets? if they step out of line, benefits are frozen to pay for any damage they have caused.
Make them suffer for their actions - not excuse them, 'cos they've had a hard life. I've had a hard lfe and poor upbringing - I'm not a layabout criminal dosser.
I agree that there is a great deal that can be done to tackle the problem. Top of my list would be building far more prisons and young offenders institutions and restoring discipline to schools.
ABSO's are merely a short term stop gap measure, but that does not make them harmful, merely short term and not terrible effective.
Whoops - sorry Jaglover - this should be your psot but i edited it to add some of my afterthoughts and it looks like I did it wrong. Sorry!
>> Edited by nubbin on Thursday 21st July 10:21
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