Upgrade the S1 or buy a 111r
Discussion
I'm at a car crossroads so to speak. I love my S1 (135hp) but want to go a bit faster. I'm very tempted by the offers on a new 111r at the moment (discount plus finance) but a bit of me says spend a couple of grand on a DVA 165bhp kit for the currrent beastie plus Nitons etc. rather than £15k to change.
I'm sure some will suggest a Honda transplant, but I'm concerned about resale. I'm an old git so insurance isn't a factor any more.
Anyone got views?
Rob
I'm sure some will suggest a Honda transplant, but I'm concerned about resale. I'm an old git so insurance isn't a factor any more.
Anyone got views?
Rob
Is it a daily driver or track/weekend car?
How many miles on the clock?
Have you already spent £££ on upgrades?
Do you plan on keeping it for years, or will you fancy something else in a years time?
These are things you need to consider.
I was in the same boat and went down the Honda route.
I really would have liked a Toyota engined car, but the cost to change was going to be like £20K, and Id already heavily modified my 2002 S2 with 60K miles on the clock.
So I went for the Honda engine and Im chuffed to bits with it - its like a new car again.
Theres a bit of difference though between spending £5K on a 160 kit + suspension or £10K on a Honda (+suspension, brakes etc)
The Honda makes sense if you have a high mile car, that youve invested a lot in, and intend to keep the car a long while and get youre moneys worth out of it.
Residuals are looking good on the Honda conversions - demand outstrips supply for them (long waiting lists) ...theres quite a few people out there who would snap youre hand for for a Honda car at say 70% of conversion cost over the std price of your car...I was offered £27K for mine ...without the Honda Id struggle to sell it for £15K...but it has had over £20K spent on it etc.
Its a difficult decision - do you think a 30bhp upgrade would be enough to keep you happy long term?
I dont - you'd be used to it within a week...and you would lose most of the money on it...maybe better off trading your car in for a newer, well sorted 111S in that case - a few grand to change cars, and better resale.
all IMO of course
How many miles on the clock?
Have you already spent £££ on upgrades?
Do you plan on keeping it for years, or will you fancy something else in a years time?
These are things you need to consider.
I was in the same boat and went down the Honda route.
I really would have liked a Toyota engined car, but the cost to change was going to be like £20K, and Id already heavily modified my 2002 S2 with 60K miles on the clock.
So I went for the Honda engine and Im chuffed to bits with it - its like a new car again.
Theres a bit of difference though between spending £5K on a 160 kit + suspension or £10K on a Honda (+suspension, brakes etc)
The Honda makes sense if you have a high mile car, that youve invested a lot in, and intend to keep the car a long while and get youre moneys worth out of it.
Residuals are looking good on the Honda conversions - demand outstrips supply for them (long waiting lists) ...theres quite a few people out there who would snap youre hand for for a Honda car at say 70% of conversion cost over the std price of your car...I was offered £27K for mine ...without the Honda Id struggle to sell it for £15K...but it has had over £20K spent on it etc.
Its a difficult decision - do you think a 30bhp upgrade would be enough to keep you happy long term?
I dont - you'd be used to it within a week...and you would lose most of the money on it...maybe better off trading your car in for a newer, well sorted 111S in that case - a few grand to change cars, and better resale.
all IMO of course
bogie said:
Havnt timed it yet...but it should be low 8's...of course depends on tyres and launch more than anything...the in gear times are most impressive....had 165mph on the GPS in France last month..2 up, roof off with full boot
That's seriously good performance, makes my 111R look slow!
Sorry - a little off topic...
yeah...Ive driven the Toyota cars...compared to a standard S1 or S2 Elise they are awesome, but Id been driving a 220bhp SC K series for 2 years/40K miles so I wouldnt have been happy (everything is relative to what you are used to)....but anyway Ive spent far more on my Elise than what a new 111R would cost !
its 835Kg (full tank, road trim) and 300bhp/210lb/ft - compared to a 111R with a few options must be 900Kg and 190bhp etc ...fair but of difference there...imagine what your 111R feels like at 6K rpm when it comes on cam...with the SC Honda it feels like that at about 3K revs...then just builds up to 8750...its mental...but costs a lot of dosh.
its 835Kg (full tank, road trim) and 300bhp/210lb/ft - compared to a 111R with a few options must be 900Kg and 190bhp etc ...fair but of difference there...imagine what your 111R feels like at 6K rpm when it comes on cam...with the SC Honda it feels like that at about 3K revs...then just builds up to 8750
...its mental...but costs a lot of dosh.bogie - every time I read about the Pimp Mobile I 
I really must get my arse up to an Essex meet soon to see it - will you take me out for a pax if I do?
Good point on the upgrade to 160ish route by the way. Having just gone from a mildly modded std car to a Sport 160 I can honestly say I'm now thinking "hmm, right now how do we get this frickin thing to go faster"
Honestly, if I were in your position Rob I'd sell the 135 as is (it'll hold good value with that spec I suspect), get the cheapest S1 or S2 I could find and then go Honda/Audi depending on your choice after driving one. Or if you decide to keep yours and change engines, don't forget you'll probably be able to sell your engine for a few hundred too bringing the conversion cost down. Talk to Andy at Maidstone Sportscars if you're considering it - he has S1 and S2 demonstrators and I'm sure would be happy to talk you through the options. Very nice chap and excellent customer service.
The Honda conversions are just such excellent VFM if you ask me - compare doing that (fully specced, with suspension upgrade and interior tat if you like) to buying a new 111R and taking the depreciation into account over 2 or 3 years and I bet you'll be coming to about the same amount for what I consider to be the better engine.
Having been driven in a Supercharged Honda conversion (S1 Exige on-track at Brands by a semi-pro racing driver) and driven the S2 Exige, the former trounced the latter comprehensively. I suspect that a car as sorted as Bogie's vs. a 111r would do exactly the same.
You pays yer money, you takes yer choice.
>> Edited by S Works on Thursday 21st July 10:25
I really must get my arse up to an Essex meet soon to see it - will you take me out for a pax if I do?
Good point on the upgrade to 160ish route by the way. Having just gone from a mildly modded std car to a Sport 160 I can honestly say I'm now thinking "hmm, right now how do we get this frickin thing to go faster"
Honestly, if I were in your position Rob I'd sell the 135 as is (it'll hold good value with that spec I suspect), get the cheapest S1 or S2 I could find and then go Honda/Audi depending on your choice after driving one. Or if you decide to keep yours and change engines, don't forget you'll probably be able to sell your engine for a few hundred too bringing the conversion cost down. Talk to Andy at Maidstone Sportscars if you're considering it - he has S1 and S2 demonstrators and I'm sure would be happy to talk you through the options. Very nice chap and excellent customer service.
The Honda conversions are just such excellent VFM if you ask me - compare doing that (fully specced, with suspension upgrade and interior tat if you like) to buying a new 111R and taking the depreciation into account over 2 or 3 years and I bet you'll be coming to about the same amount for what I consider to be the better engine.
Having been driven in a Supercharged Honda conversion (S1 Exige on-track at Brands by a semi-pro racing driver) and driven the S2 Exige, the former trounced the latter comprehensively. I suspect that a car as sorted as Bogie's vs. a 111r would do exactly the same.
You pays yer money, you takes yer choice.
>> Edited by S Works on Thursday 21st July 10:25
If your driving is principally road based then go for the 111R if you can afford it. It's a better car, better made, better comfort, more stable, has ABS....the list goes on. But, it's not a new world order in Elise ownership. That yota motoa isn't all it's cracked up to be. Below the 6000rpm second cam it's no better (if not worse) than a stock S1. I was really disapointed 1st time I tried on. Since then I've used the 111R and S2 Exige on track and remain convinced the yota is the WRONG engine for the car.
I'd stick with the S1 if you do trackdays/use the car occassionally/can think of better stuff to spend the balance on.
Or go for the only powerful stock Elise availiable............
.....A VX Turbo! can be had for IRO half the price of a 111R, has all the benifits in terms of comfort/stability, is very tunable, and if you like it is arguably a more exclusive better looking car (personal view- I think the S2 Elise is aging badly at the moment).
Nice decisions to be making!
I'd stick with the S1 if you do trackdays/use the car occassionally/can think of better stuff to spend the balance on.
Or go for the only powerful stock Elise availiable............
.....A VX Turbo! can be had for IRO half the price of a 111R, has all the benifits in terms of comfort/stability, is very tunable, and if you like it is arguably a more exclusive better looking car (personal view- I think the S2 Elise is aging badly at the moment).
Nice decisions to be making!
The current car is lowish miles and A1 condition. The new deal is free touring pack and the cheap finance plus an above book trade in. I'll keep the car for 3 years max mainly weekend road use with the odd track day. I'm tempted not least because I suspect the Exige 240 supercharger will be an upgrade for next year.
I'm going to do a back to back test drive 111r versus 111s and my own next week to decide.
Thanks for the input
Rob
I'm going to do a back to back test drive 111r versus 111s and my own next week to decide.
Thanks for the input
Rob
Having looked at buying a 111R you can get £2k off new price from a main dealer and that was without any serious negotiating. Try www.drivethedeal.com for a quick check, if you fancy yourself as a negotiator you can normally beat these prices.
Don't assume you can fit the s/c to a 111r.
Take a look at the position of the s/c on the Exige 240R: it's sat on TOP of the engine - fits within Exige engine cover but would be ABOVE the flat deck of the Elise. Can't see them completely re-engineering it to fit lower down - if they'd had it in mind as an aftermarket conversion for BOTH cars, surely they'd have packaged it differently in the first place?
Graeme
Take a look at the position of the s/c on the Exige 240R: it's sat on TOP of the engine - fits within Exige engine cover but would be ABOVE the flat deck of the Elise. Can't see them completely re-engineering it to fit lower down - if they'd had it in mind as an aftermarket conversion for BOTH cars, surely they'd have packaged it differently in the first place?
Graeme
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