I'm in favour of truancy
Discussion
I was chatting to my neighbour last night, whose kid goes to a local comprehensive school. Apparently this school had a bit of a truancy problem so the staff (and local authorities) have had a blitz on targeting the truants an forcing them back to school – which has been reasonably successful.
The problem now is, these trouble-makers are making life hell in the class room. Bullying has increased, teachers morale is down and the ‘hard working environment’ is collapsing. So now, the chavs are trying to bring down the school their level – which none of the well disciplined kids (the majority) are happy about.
Surely, if a child is bunking off school there are bigger issues in his life than simply “attendance”. By just dealing with the attendance issue, you’re simply creating more problems. I prefer the Darwinian approach. If a kid is raised in a family where the parents don’t give a monkey’s, then let them do what they like. Eventually, the cream will rise to the top and the dross will sink. The answer is not to shake the bottle, whereby everyone is affected.
The problem now is, these trouble-makers are making life hell in the class room. Bullying has increased, teachers morale is down and the ‘hard working environment’ is collapsing. So now, the chavs are trying to bring down the school their level – which none of the well disciplined kids (the majority) are happy about.
Surely, if a child is bunking off school there are bigger issues in his life than simply “attendance”. By just dealing with the attendance issue, you’re simply creating more problems. I prefer the Darwinian approach. If a kid is raised in a family where the parents don’t give a monkey’s, then let them do what they like. Eventually, the cream will rise to the top and the dross will sink. The answer is not to shake the bottle, whereby everyone is affected.
A meritous argument.
Trouble is, the caring sharing element of society think everyone is equal (plainly incorrect) so everyone suffers at the hands of the incapable.
If people died through poverty in the UK I bet we would have practially no one unemployed (and thats proper jobs rather than civil service figure massaging non jobs)
Trouble is, the caring sharing element of society think everyone is equal (plainly incorrect) so everyone suffers at the hands of the incapable.
If people died through poverty in the UK I bet we would have practially no one unemployed (and thats proper jobs rather than civil service figure massaging non jobs)
The "darwinian" approach breaks down when these scrotes grow up to become adult members of our society, some of us will suffer, be it through subsidising their living through taxes or simply getting mugged by them. We should try to teach some sense into them before they become life long benefit recipients or career criminals.
I wonder if we should have schools setup for people like these, i think there called 'boot camps' in the USA
>> Edited by scorp on Wednesday 20th July 12:05
I wonder if we should have schools setup for people like these, i think there called 'boot camps' in the USA
>> Edited by scorp on Wednesday 20th July 12:05
Interesting.
Another example of measuring the wrong thing and then acting upon it perhaps?
Things is though, if they have been able to bring enough pressure to bear to get them back to school why can they not apply similar pressure to enforrce standards?
Two solutions.
1. Summer Hols starting so maybe the new year will uncover a solution - whatever it may be.
2. Having got the measurement of truancy figure right to satisfy the numbers - expel them, thus making the trauncy official.
I assume there are flaws in my suggestions.
Another example of measuring the wrong thing and then acting upon it perhaps?
Things is though, if they have been able to bring enough pressure to bear to get them back to school why can they not apply similar pressure to enforrce standards?
Two solutions.
1. Summer Hols starting so maybe the new year will uncover a solution - whatever it may be.
2. Having got the measurement of truancy figure right to satisfy the numbers - expel them, thus making the trauncy official.
I assume there are flaws in my suggestions.
srebbe64 said:
I was chatting to my neighbour last night, whose kid goes to a local comprehensive school. Apparently this school had a bit of a truancy problem so the staff (and local authorities) have had a blitz on targeting the truants an forcing them back to school – which has been reasonably successful.
The problem now is, these trouble-makers are making life hell in the class room. Bullying has increased, teachers morale is down and the ‘hard working environment’ is collapsing. So now, the chavs are trying to bring down the school their level – which none of the well disciplined kids (the majority) are happy about.
The solution is 'special' schools for troublemakers. There they will get as much schooling as at the normal comprehensive-ie not much and the majority of students are free to learn.
Labour's policy has been the opposite, under their 'inclusive' agenda schools are restricted in their powers to expel troublemakers, and 'special' schools are closed down.
LongQ said:
2. Having got the measurement of truancy figure right to satisfy the numbers - expel them, thus making the trauncy official.
That hits on my last post in that society will still have to deal with these people when they become adults.
>> Edited by scorp on Wednesday 20th July 12:11
Why can't these do-gooders quit meddling and let the natural order of things continue?
If some kids would rather go round kicking-in bus stops and smoking weed all day instead of getting educated then why stop them?
We need these bums to carry out their bum jobs in the future. If every kid in school gets to degree level then who'll serve our burgers or pick up our bins?
If some kids would rather go round kicking-in bus stops and smoking weed all day instead of getting educated then why stop them?
We need these bums to carry out their bum jobs in the future. If every kid in school gets to degree level then who'll serve our burgers or pick up our bins?
LongQ said:
2. Having got the measurement of truancy figure right to satisfy the numbers - expel them, thus making the truancy official.
I assume there are flaws in my suggestions.
Sorry but yes. it is almost impossible to expel a child unless they have a long history of violent conduct.
Just as it isn't allowed to put the troublemakers in a separate class room where they will not disturb those who want to get on.
It's all about inclusion don't you know
scorp said:
I wonder if we should have schools setup for people like these, i think there called 'boot camps' in the USA
I think you are thinking of the channel 4 series called Brat Camp where unruly kids get sent to Turnabout Ranch www.turnaboutranch.com/
Cotty said:
I wonder if we should have schools setup for people like these, i think there called 'boot camps' in the USA
I think you are thinking of the channel 4 series called Brat Camp where unruly kids get sent to Turnabout Ranch www.turnaboutranch.com/
I was thinking more of a school like the boot camp in "full metal jacket"..
Ive heard many stories of how the army has sorted out the attitudes of some unruly types, i wonder if that fact can be turned into something of practical use.
randlemarcus said:
If every kid in school gets to degree level then who'll serve our burgers or pick up our bins?
Arts Graduates?
Marcus (BSc)
Perhaps you'd like your bin contents rearranged into some 'artwork' all over your front garden and your burger served where the sun doesn't shine?
All in the name of art ofcourse
Iain (BAhons)
For some reason the factory I work in as a manufacturing engineer seems to employ these people as a matter of course.
So I'm currently being measured on the productivity of a new line, which stops for 8 hours a day in an average of 8 minite stops. The less these people produce the more we reward them by 'giving' them more weekend rate overtime.
Can they read ? Sometimes. Can they work through a problem starting with step one first ? Not normally.
What are their aspirations for their own children? The sooner they leave home the better !!
They have an excuse for everything, expect everything on a plate. For some reason the lazy one's get promoted !!!
So I'm currently being measured on the productivity of a new line, which stops for 8 hours a day in an average of 8 minite stops. The less these people produce the more we reward them by 'giving' them more weekend rate overtime.
Can they read ? Sometimes. Can they work through a problem starting with step one first ? Not normally.
What are their aspirations for their own children? The sooner they leave home the better !!
They have an excuse for everything, expect everything on a plate. For some reason the lazy one's get promoted !!!
I used to think in a Darwinian manner, having a science background makes me neglect the humanist aspect and just leave them to rot. I was on my nice little journey from living with my victorian parents in the lovely little village where there are no council houses, every child has a dad, through university with people like me and then into a job. So, I'd read a few books about the underclass and figured they were "just scum". I had the privilage of a year to kill with no money, I made the decision that I would work on building sites, as the money was good, and it was outdoors, plus I'd learn something. What I didn't bank on learning was insight into people rather than building walls/etc. I have met some of the most misunderstood, intelligent, talented people on sites, the sort which were failed by the system, as a prospective teacher, this was a slap around the face for me.
It's so easy to write off these people through ignorance, they have no taste, their values are different but they have the potential in certain cases to be very useful people. I do think a lot of these smallminded politicians, teachers and civil servants could do with a year on building sites. It brings you back down to earth with a bang. The amount of prejudice I've heard in staff rooms makes me sick, of course, us teachers are all frightfully liberal...bollox.
The whole system needs a shake up, entry to college needs to be a test of required abilities, rather than a production of a load of bits of paper, which are no proof of intelligence or ability. A lot of these people get the skills later in life and can-do but are limited because they couldn't keep it together at pre 16. It needs to change, without doubt, the most intelligent, knowledgable people I know have got virtually no bits of paper, whereas all the single mummy chavettes in my area all did what they were told and got straight A's.
If you ask me, very few people have significant personality issues, the ones which are beyond help are the ones which should be shot (see, I'm no liberal!) but most of them can be helped, it's just a whinging, bleating self-victimisation of incompetent teachers who can't provide the relevant programme. They do have the resources. Even though I am going into teaching full time, I can say that the stereotype of my peer is generally a lazy, liberal, small minded
wit who says all of the right things and does very little...."Did I tell you that I'm so dedicated to my job, I give my whole life to the little dears" "Yeah right, your plans are shit, your results speak for themselves and you're in it like the rest of us, for big holidays".......
Tangent police!
It's so easy to write off these people through ignorance, they have no taste, their values are different but they have the potential in certain cases to be very useful people. I do think a lot of these smallminded politicians, teachers and civil servants could do with a year on building sites. It brings you back down to earth with a bang. The amount of prejudice I've heard in staff rooms makes me sick, of course, us teachers are all frightfully liberal...bollox.
The whole system needs a shake up, entry to college needs to be a test of required abilities, rather than a production of a load of bits of paper, which are no proof of intelligence or ability. A lot of these people get the skills later in life and can-do but are limited because they couldn't keep it together at pre 16. It needs to change, without doubt, the most intelligent, knowledgable people I know have got virtually no bits of paper, whereas all the single mummy chavettes in my area all did what they were told and got straight A's.
If you ask me, very few people have significant personality issues, the ones which are beyond help are the ones which should be shot (see, I'm no liberal!) but most of them can be helped, it's just a whinging, bleating self-victimisation of incompetent teachers who can't provide the relevant programme. They do have the resources. Even though I am going into teaching full time, I can say that the stereotype of my peer is generally a lazy, liberal, small minded
wit who says all of the right things and does very little...."Did I tell you that I'm so dedicated to my job, I give my whole life to the little dears" "Yeah right, your plans are shit, your results speak for themselves and you're in it like the rest of us, for big holidays"....... Tangent police!Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff