Buying from a trader with no warranty
Discussion
Hi all
I have purchased a car from a trader. No known faults etc, I was offered a 3 month warranty, I didn’t go ahead with this as the car wouldn’t have been used much at all in those 3 months.
There we no know faults with the car but on the invoice from the retailer it says:
Trade sale declaration, this vehicle is sold with faults and must be put in a roadworthy condition before being used on a public highway.
It was put through an mot before sale with no advisors also. Also got written confirmation in email from them that there are know known faults.
I took the car out for a proper drive yesterday and the 4wd system isn’t working so effectively only working in 2wd, possible haldex pump failure, booked in with a local specialist.
Ideally I’d like to keep the car but what rights do I have with repair costs or potential refund if it turns out to be expensive?
I have purchased a car from a trader. No known faults etc, I was offered a 3 month warranty, I didn’t go ahead with this as the car wouldn’t have been used much at all in those 3 months.
There we no know faults with the car but on the invoice from the retailer it says:
Trade sale declaration, this vehicle is sold with faults and must be put in a roadworthy condition before being used on a public highway.
It was put through an mot before sale with no advisors also. Also got written confirmation in email from them that there are know known faults.
I took the car out for a proper drive yesterday and the 4wd system isn’t working so effectively only working in 2wd, possible haldex pump failure, booked in with a local specialist.
Ideally I’d like to keep the car but what rights do I have with repair costs or potential refund if it turns out to be expensive?
Edited by lee1610 on Monday 26th July 17:04
lee1610 said:
Hi all
I have purchased a car from a trader. No known faults etc, I was offered a 3 month warranty, I didn’t go ahead with this as the car wouldn’t have been used much at all in those 3 months.
There we no know faults with the car but on the invoice from the retailer it says:
Trade sale declaration, this vehicle is sold with faults and must be put in a roadworthy condition before being used on a public highway.
It was put through an mot before sale with no advisors also. Also got written confirmation in email from them that there are know known faults.
I took the car out for a proper drive yesterday and the 4wd system isn’t working so effectively only working in 2wd, possible haldex pump failure, booked in with a local specialist.
Ideally I’d like to keep the car but what rights do I have with repair costs or potential refund if it turns out to be expensive?
I could be wrong but it sounds like he has sold the car as a 'trade' car, i.e. sold it as if you the buyer were in the trade and therefore a warranty doesn't apply.I have purchased a car from a trader. No known faults etc, I was offered a 3 month warranty, I didn’t go ahead with this as the car wouldn’t have been used much at all in those 3 months.
There we no know faults with the car but on the invoice from the retailer it says:
Trade sale declaration, this vehicle is sold with faults and must be put in a roadworthy condition before being used on a public highway.
It was put through an mot before sale with no advisors also. Also got written confirmation in email from them that there are know known faults.
I took the car out for a proper drive yesterday and the 4wd system isn’t working so effectively only working in 2wd, possible haldex pump failure, booked in with a local specialist.
Ideally I’d like to keep the car but what rights do I have with repair costs or potential refund if it turns out to be expensive?
Did you not question what was written on the invoice or even ask about a warranty before sale?
Wagonwheel555 said:
I could be wrong but it sounds like he has sold the car as a 'trade' car, i.e. sold it as if you the buyer were in the trade and therefore a warranty doesn't apply.
Did you not question what was written on the invoice or even ask about a warranty before sale?
"I was offered a 3 month warranty" .....in the OP .Did you not question what was written on the invoice or even ask about a warranty before sale?
If you've bought the car 'as trade' with a declaration that states it comes 'with fault's then without an exhaustive list of the faults I would imagine you don't have a leg to stand on.
Surely the risk of buying as trade is that you have to do your own due diligence to ascertain the condition of the car, so long as there isn't any blatent lieing then I'm struggling to see how you think you have a leg to stand on. You got the car for trade price, use some of that saving to get it sorted.
Surely the risk of buying as trade is that you have to do your own due diligence to ascertain the condition of the car, so long as there isn't any blatent lieing then I'm struggling to see how you think you have a leg to stand on. You got the car for trade price, use some of that saving to get it sorted.
Wagonwheel555 said:
I could be wrong but it sounds like he has sold the car as a 'trade' car, i.e. sold it as if you the buyer were in the trade and therefore a warranty doesn't apply.
Nope. A trader can’t just wash their hands of their obligations under the SOGA (or whatever it’s called now) by writing that on the invoice. It’s a sharp practice done by shyster dealers. OP, you have rights to have the car repaired by the dealer, although given the experience you’ve had so far I suspect they’ll tell you to do one and you’ll have a battle on your hands. Brace up and prepare for a Small Claims case.
What car, age and price? Gives some perspective.
Audi s3, 17.5k. 2014. Was advertised as a retail car originally. I’ve got emails stating that there were know known faults etc.
I want to keep the car ideally but if a 3k bill comes in for something I was not told about or they were aware of then that’s where consumer rights come in I believe?
If it’s just the haldex pump then I can deal with that, he may of been unaware of this, it did have the haldex oil changed at Audi 1000 miles ago with invoice.
The dealer has been ok and is trying to help resolve the best he can now
I want to keep the car ideally but if a 3k bill comes in for something I was not told about or they were aware of then that’s where consumer rights come in I believe?
If it’s just the haldex pump then I can deal with that, he may of been unaware of this, it did have the haldex oil changed at Audi 1000 miles ago with invoice.
The dealer has been ok and is trying to help resolve the best he can now
Edited by lee1610 on Monday 26th July 12:28
Edited by lee1610 on Monday 26th July 12:30
InitialDave said:
If you got it cheap due to being a trade sale, and knew and agreed it was a trade sale, going back and leveraging your consumer rights to override that is kind of a dick move.
What about if it was advertised as the best car available, no known faults and checked over by their mechanic?Still a dick move?
Edited by lee1610 on Monday 26th July 14:00
wiliferus said:
Nope. A trader can’t just wash their hands of their obligations under the SOGA (or whatever it’s called now) by writing that on the invoice. It’s a sharp practice done by shyster dealers.
OP, you have rights to have the car repaired by the dealer, although given the experience you’ve had so far I suspect they’ll tell you to do one and you’ll have a battle on your hands. Brace up and prepare for a Small Claims case.
What car, age and price? Gives some perspective.
Surely the trader can 'trade' out on to another individual with faults? OP, you have rights to have the car repaired by the dealer, although given the experience you’ve had so far I suspect they’ll tell you to do one and you’ll have a battle on your hands. Brace up and prepare for a Small Claims case.
What car, age and price? Gives some perspective.
The OP here is a fool for buying this way. He wanted a cheap car, got it, refused the warranty (&costs). He's gambled and lost.
Refund is not going to be easy.
lee1610 said:
What about if it was advertised as the best car available, know known faults and checked over by their mechanic?
Still a dick move?
Only if you got it at a lower price by knowingly agreeing to not have it treated as a retail sale, and then expect it to be treated as a retail sale afterwards.Still a dick move?
https://www.bromley.gov.uk/leaflet/122489/16/687/d
“ The Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not entitle you to anything if:
you were told about any faults before you bought the vehicle
the fault was obvious and it would have been reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying it
you caused any damage yourself
you made a mistake - for example, you asked for the wrong engine size
you have changed your mind about the vehicle or have seen one cheaper elsewhere”
However, I’m not sure you can sell a car as a “trade sale” to someone who’s not in the trade…
“ The Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not entitle you to anything if:
you were told about any faults before you bought the vehicle
the fault was obvious and it would have been reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying it
you caused any damage yourself
you made a mistake - for example, you asked for the wrong engine size
you have changed your mind about the vehicle or have seen one cheaper elsewhere”
However, I’m not sure you can sell a car as a “trade sale” to someone who’s not in the trade…
InitialDave said:
Only if you got it at a lower price by knowingly agreeing to not have it treated as a retail sale, and then expect it to be treated as a retail sale afterwards.
I was happy for a trade sale knowing that there were no faults.I want to keep the car, I’m just disappointed that this fault is there and they weren’t aware of it.
If I was told of the fault and price reflected that I’d understand I couldn’t do anything about it and wouldn’t expect anything to be done about it
The Road Crew said:
wiliferus said:
Nope. A trader can’t just wash their hands of their obligations under the SOGA (or whatever it’s called now) by writing that on the invoice. It’s a sharp practice done by shyster dealers.
OP, you have rights to have the car repaired by the dealer, although given the experience you’ve had so far I suspect they’ll tell you to do one and you’ll have a battle on your hands. Brace up and prepare for a Small Claims case.
What car, age and price? Gives some perspective.
Surely the trader can 'trade' out on to another individual with faults? OP, you have rights to have the car repaired by the dealer, although given the experience you’ve had so far I suspect they’ll tell you to do one and you’ll have a battle on your hands. Brace up and prepare for a Small Claims case.
What car, age and price? Gives some perspective.
The OP here is a fool for buying this way. He wanted a cheap car, got it, refused the warranty (&costs). He's gambled and lost.
Refund is not going to be easy.
Also, dealer offered a warranty. It’s either a trade sale, or it isn’t. He can’t claim trade sale to dodge SOGA yet still offer a warranty (from which he’ll earn commission).
I think it’s fairly apparent the dealer knew damn well that the car had issues so was trying to body swerve an expensive repair.
lee1610 said:
I was happy for a trade sale knowing that there were no faults.
I want to keep the car, I’m just disappointed that this fault is there and they weren’t aware of it.
If I was told of the fault and price reflected that I’d understand I couldn’t do anything about it and wouldn’t expect anything to be done about it
Then you weren't happy with a trade sale, and shouldn't have agreed to it.I want to keep the car, I’m just disappointed that this fault is there and they weren’t aware of it.
If I was told of the fault and price reflected that I’d understand I couldn’t do anything about it and wouldn’t expect anything to be done about it
The entire point of a trade sale is that you're buying the car as-is, and it may well be a pup. But you get it a bit cheaper and take that gamble.
wiliferus said:
I agree with some of that, but it was sold with no known faults.
Also, dealer offered a warranty. It’s either a trade sale, or it isn’t. He can’t claim trade sale to dodge SOGA yet still offer a warranty (from which he’ll earn commission).
I think it’s fairly apparent the dealer knew damn well that the car had issues so was trying to body swerve an expensive repair.
To be honest I don’t know if he did know. It’s only when you push it the traction control light flashes and you can feel with front wheels struggling for grip and not sending power to the back wheels. Also, dealer offered a warranty. It’s either a trade sale, or it isn’t. He can’t claim trade sale to dodge SOGA yet still offer a warranty (from which he’ll earn commission).
I think it’s fairly apparent the dealer knew damn well that the car had issues so was trying to body swerve an expensive repair.
He has been ok so far and still stands by it being the best condition well maintained example. I might have just been unlucky
InitialDave said:
Then you weren't happy with a trade sale, and shouldn't have agreed to it.
The entire point of a trade sale is that you're buying the car as-is, and it may well be a pup. But you get it a bit cheaper and take that gamble.
How can it be a trade sale if the purchaser is a consumer?The entire point of a trade sale is that you're buying the car as-is, and it may well be a pup. But you get it a bit cheaper and take that gamble.
InitialDave said:
Then you weren't happy with a trade sale, and shouldn't have agreed to it.
The entire point of a trade sale is that you're buying the car as-is, and it may well be a pup. But you get it a bit cheaper and take that gamble.
Wouldn’t any faults still need to be disclosed though? If I’d have paid extra for the warranty I would have still had a faulty car The entire point of a trade sale is that you're buying the car as-is, and it may well be a pup. But you get it a bit cheaper and take that gamble.
Buying a car for £17.5k as a private buyer and treating it as a trade sale is asking for trouble.
Having said that, the seller can't just wash their hands of it if they knowlingly sold it to a member of the public and certainly not if they sold it with an email saying no faults they are aware of.
If they knew you were not a trade buyer then your consumer rights remain in place and they are likely to have to rectify the fault or refund you.
A dodgy dealer would try and use all the tricks of writing trade sale on the paperwork, saying you declared yourself a trade buyer or pushing it through the small claims court in the hope you don't pursue it.
Can be a lot of hassle that is avoidable at the point of purchase, but I hope they pay for the repair and it works out for you.
Having said that, the seller can't just wash their hands of it if they knowlingly sold it to a member of the public and certainly not if they sold it with an email saying no faults they are aware of.
If they knew you were not a trade buyer then your consumer rights remain in place and they are likely to have to rectify the fault or refund you.
A dodgy dealer would try and use all the tricks of writing trade sale on the paperwork, saying you declared yourself a trade buyer or pushing it through the small claims court in the hope you don't pursue it.
Can be a lot of hassle that is avoidable at the point of purchase, but I hope they pay for the repair and it works out for you.
lost in espace said:
How can it be a trade sale if the purchaser is a consumer?
Well, it can't, which is why the OP is able to exercise his consumer rights as if it were a retail sale.My point is I disagree with doing that.
lee1610 said:
Wouldn’t any faults still need to be disclosed though? If I’d have paid extra for the warranty I would have still had a faulty car
The three month warranty is a bit of a red herring, as a consumer you'd still have a decent level of protection for the first six months anyway, so I wouldn't have gone for the warranty either.But nor would I have agreed to it being a trade sale.
DanG355 said:
Buying a car for £17.5k as a private buyer and treating it as a trade sale is asking for trouble.
Having said that, the seller can't just wash their hands of it if they knowlingly sold it to a member of the public and certainly not if they sold it with an email saying no faults they are aware of.
If they knew you were not a trade buyer then your consumer rights remain in place and they are likely to have to rectify the fault or refund you.
A dodgy dealer would try and use all the tricks of writing trade sale on the paperwork, saying you declared yourself a trade buyer or pushing it through the small claims court in the hope you don't pursue it.
Can be a lot of hassle that is avoidable at the point of purchase, but I hope they pay for the repair and it works out for you.
Nice response, thank you.Having said that, the seller can't just wash their hands of it if they knowlingly sold it to a member of the public and certainly not if they sold it with an email saying no faults they are aware of.
If they knew you were not a trade buyer then your consumer rights remain in place and they are likely to have to rectify the fault or refund you.
A dodgy dealer would try and use all the tricks of writing trade sale on the paperwork, saying you declared yourself a trade buyer or pushing it through the small claims court in the hope you don't pursue it.
Can be a lot of hassle that is avoidable at the point of purchase, but I hope they pay for the repair and it works out for you.
He doesn’t seem dodgy, it’s a local established business for 35 years. I just think it’s an unfortunate fault which has been missed by them potentially. He has admitted in a couple of emails it’s had no know faults, it has full documented Audi history, new mot etc.
The reason for not taking out the warranty is the car wouldn’t have been used properly for 3 months, got a company car until then.
In hindsight I should have paid extra for the warranty.
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