General advice… how to spot a dud
Discussion
Hi,
First post here so go easy on me… apologies if this topic has been done to death before. I’m after some general advice as to how someone without a lot of mechanical expertise can best avoid buying a potential money pit.
A bit of background, most of my life I’ve stuck to buying new or nearly-new as I needed to rely on my car and felt this was the best way to avoid expensive mistakes, and usually it’s worked out. However having retired a couple of years ago I feel I can afford to look for something older (and cheaper) knowing that I’ve got the time to fix things that need doing. Just before COVID I dipped my toe in the water for the 1st time by buying a 2004 Audi A2 with almost 150k on the clock for £2k as a runaround. It’s worked out quite well since though it’s needed quite a lot of maintenance work the A2 has a very loyal and supportive owners club that has been an invaluable resource, and it tends not to be the kind of car that people thrash. I also bought the car from an established owners club member so felt reasonably confident I wasn’t being taken for a ride. But now I’d like to spend a bit more on something more exciting and have my heart set on a Golf GTI Mk5 or 6. Having done a fair bit of homework (and joined the golf GTI forum) I know my budget should get me an exceptional Mk5 with change to spare or a decent Mk6.
So for sometime I’ve been trawling the online ads, and started viewing cars too. Naturally I always look for the obvious things like full service history, not too many owners, a tidy MOT history, and glean what I can from how well the ad is written and how well the car is presented, a bulging book of invoices is rare but a nice bonus. I also try to do a bit of homework on the dealer’s reputation however online reviews can often be misleading, though I’d never rule out a private sale either. The trouble is that there are a lot of bad Golf GTIs around that have been abused and spotting a really good one amongst these isn’t so easy. A couple of weeks ago I thought I’d found myself a good Mk6. £11k, 2 owners, low mileage, FSH (though last service was at the selling dealer), decent MOT history, dealer had pretty good reviews. I went to see it and test drove it and decided to put down a deposit, subject to an RAC inspection. To my dismay the inspection uncovered a number of issues that would have required expensive work and investigations, so with a heavy heart I pulled out of the sale. I got my deposit back but was still £300 lighter after the inspection, but at least I feel I dodged a bullet.
So my question for the forum is, how best can I avoid this happening again? I can’t realistically afford to blow that amount on every possible car I look at until I find a good one, so what suggestions do you have from your own car buying experience? Unfortunately I don’t have a good mate who’s a mechanic who I could take with me who’d spot the things I’d miss. Would it generally better value to try and get the car inspected at a local garage (VAG specialist preferably) prior to purchase? For sure I know that a car of this age will cost more to maintain but would like to try and avoid one that’s about to have a lot of very expensive failures if possible!
First post here so go easy on me… apologies if this topic has been done to death before. I’m after some general advice as to how someone without a lot of mechanical expertise can best avoid buying a potential money pit.
A bit of background, most of my life I’ve stuck to buying new or nearly-new as I needed to rely on my car and felt this was the best way to avoid expensive mistakes, and usually it’s worked out. However having retired a couple of years ago I feel I can afford to look for something older (and cheaper) knowing that I’ve got the time to fix things that need doing. Just before COVID I dipped my toe in the water for the 1st time by buying a 2004 Audi A2 with almost 150k on the clock for £2k as a runaround. It’s worked out quite well since though it’s needed quite a lot of maintenance work the A2 has a very loyal and supportive owners club that has been an invaluable resource, and it tends not to be the kind of car that people thrash. I also bought the car from an established owners club member so felt reasonably confident I wasn’t being taken for a ride. But now I’d like to spend a bit more on something more exciting and have my heart set on a Golf GTI Mk5 or 6. Having done a fair bit of homework (and joined the golf GTI forum) I know my budget should get me an exceptional Mk5 with change to spare or a decent Mk6.
So for sometime I’ve been trawling the online ads, and started viewing cars too. Naturally I always look for the obvious things like full service history, not too many owners, a tidy MOT history, and glean what I can from how well the ad is written and how well the car is presented, a bulging book of invoices is rare but a nice bonus. I also try to do a bit of homework on the dealer’s reputation however online reviews can often be misleading, though I’d never rule out a private sale either. The trouble is that there are a lot of bad Golf GTIs around that have been abused and spotting a really good one amongst these isn’t so easy. A couple of weeks ago I thought I’d found myself a good Mk6. £11k, 2 owners, low mileage, FSH (though last service was at the selling dealer), decent MOT history, dealer had pretty good reviews. I went to see it and test drove it and decided to put down a deposit, subject to an RAC inspection. To my dismay the inspection uncovered a number of issues that would have required expensive work and investigations, so with a heavy heart I pulled out of the sale. I got my deposit back but was still £300 lighter after the inspection, but at least I feel I dodged a bullet.
So my question for the forum is, how best can I avoid this happening again? I can’t realistically afford to blow that amount on every possible car I look at until I find a good one, so what suggestions do you have from your own car buying experience? Unfortunately I don’t have a good mate who’s a mechanic who I could take with me who’d spot the things I’d miss. Would it generally better value to try and get the car inspected at a local garage (VAG specialist preferably) prior to purchase? For sure I know that a car of this age will cost more to maintain but would like to try and avoid one that’s about to have a lot of very expensive failures if possible!
Check everything works. E.g air con can be a big cost if it needs a new compressor etc. so don't just take somebody's word that it 'just needs a regas'.
Take a fault code reader with you and scan for faults.
Check all paperwork thoroughly. Something that has been serviced meticulously and had all the major works done and hopefully some preventative maintenance is less likely to go wrong.
If you are looking at mk5's have you considered an edition 30? Reason I say it is they seem to be holding value very well. Also edition 35 if budget allows.
On mk5 gti's if you buy dsg the gearbox should have been serviced every 40k. PCV valve and diverter valve can go wrong but both are pretty cheap (about £40 and can DIY). Cam follower (also cheap and DIY) can go and cause major problems and also the oil pick up can need cleaning also causing big issues.
Saying that I bought a mk5 gti with full VW service history and all the parts mentioned above recently replaced and in the first 4k miles I've had to do 2x thermostats (inline and main) which is a few hundred quid as you have to remove the alternator, ignition switch, MAF sensor, lambda sensor and some other small bits so it's luck of the draw aswell.
Edit: On the Mk6 I think they had timing chain issues which weren't resolved until late 2011 so I'd look for a later model if it hasn't had the revised chain and tensioner.
Take a fault code reader with you and scan for faults.
Check all paperwork thoroughly. Something that has been serviced meticulously and had all the major works done and hopefully some preventative maintenance is less likely to go wrong.
If you are looking at mk5's have you considered an edition 30? Reason I say it is they seem to be holding value very well. Also edition 35 if budget allows.
On mk5 gti's if you buy dsg the gearbox should have been serviced every 40k. PCV valve and diverter valve can go wrong but both are pretty cheap (about £40 and can DIY). Cam follower (also cheap and DIY) can go and cause major problems and also the oil pick up can need cleaning also causing big issues.
Saying that I bought a mk5 gti with full VW service history and all the parts mentioned above recently replaced and in the first 4k miles I've had to do 2x thermostats (inline and main) which is a few hundred quid as you have to remove the alternator, ignition switch, MAF sensor, lambda sensor and some other small bits so it's luck of the draw aswell.
Edit: On the Mk6 I think they had timing chain issues which weren't resolved until late 2011 so I'd look for a later model if it hasn't had the revised chain and tensioner.
Edited by scoey1001 on Monday 12th July 11:11
Thanks some good advice. I’d learned some of this from the golf gti forum and some of the better YouTube vids. Don’t think I’d ever be able to spot PCV, diverter valve or cam follower problems myself though. Not seriously considered getting the kit to do a scan myself but might look into that. Yeah I know about the chain tensioner issue on early Mk6s so budgeting on replacing that and the chain etc to be on the safe side if I end up with one of them.
I haven’t seriously considered edition 30 or 35 cars. An edition 30 would probably be in my budget, however I’d be happy enough with the performance of a standard Mk5, while a decent 35 edition would be too expensive.
As your experience shows, it’s always going to be a bit of a lottery, however I at least want to stack the odds in my favour.
I haven’t seriously considered edition 30 or 35 cars. An edition 30 would probably be in my budget, however I’d be happy enough with the performance of a standard Mk5, while a decent 35 edition would be too expensive.
As your experience shows, it’s always going to be a bit of a lottery, however I at least want to stack the odds in my favour.
Do a Vcheck as well as the usual checks it'll tell you if the car has had any insurance work carried out (not that that's a reason not to buy a car) which is handy.
A paint meter is also handy as is a scanner, check everything works & if it doesn't find out how much it'll cost to fix, condition is everything & make sure all the paperwork tally's up.
Then get your inspection done.
Have you looked at the Leon?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107074...
A paint meter is also handy as is a scanner, check everything works & if it doesn't find out how much it'll cost to fix, condition is everything & make sure all the paperwork tally's up.
Then get your inspection done.
Have you looked at the Leon?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107074...
The problem is a lot of cars will have had a hard life and you will be buying it at the wrong time so to speak, ie the suspension etc will be tired.
That said keep an eye out on the owners groups on Facebook etc as a good well looked after car will come up from time to time, although they are few and far between.
I’d personally look at a newer Cupra as above.
That said keep an eye out on the owners groups on Facebook etc as a good well looked after car will come up from time to time, although they are few and far between.
I’d personally look at a newer Cupra as above.
ZX10R NIN said:
Do a Vcheck as well as the usual checks it'll tell you if the car has had any insurance work carried out (not that that's a reason not to buy a car) which is handy.
A paint meter is also handy as is a scanner, check everything works & if it doesn't find out how much it'll cost to fix, condition is everything & make sure all the paperwork tally's up.
Then get your inspection done.
Have you looked at the Leon?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107074...
The paint meter seems like a good idea, looks like they don’t cost a fortune. I’ve considered the Leon, however I test drove a “cooking” one that age some years ago and was a bit underwhelmed by it, felt like a poor relation of a golf the same age to me. Might look at a Cupra though if I can find one within my budget, would have to be 5 door.A paint meter is also handy as is a scanner, check everything works & if it doesn't find out how much it'll cost to fix, condition is everything & make sure all the paperwork tally's up.
Then get your inspection done.
Have you looked at the Leon?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107074...
felix64 said:
The paint meter seems like a good idea, looks like they don’t cost a fortune. I’ve considered the Leon, however I test drove a “cooking” one that age some years ago and was a bit underwhelmed by it, felt like a poor relation of a golf the same age to me. Might look at a Cupra though if I can find one within my budget, would have to be 5 door.
There are a fair few 5 doors out there it just depends on what Gen you want, I'd find one local to you & test drive one.280
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106294...
R
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106013...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105152...
ZX10R NIN said:
There are a fair few 5 doors out there it just depends on what Gen you want, I'd find one local to you & test drive one.
280
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106294...
R
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106013...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105152...
I don’t want to touch a remapped or modified one thanks. For me that’s a bit of a red flag that it’s likely to have been thrashed. I’m not so keen on the older Leon’s….I actually bought a new 1st gen one in 2001 which turned out to be one of the most disappointing cars I ever owned, lots of coil pack failures, water leaks and developed the most terrible squeaks and rattles.280
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106294...
R
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106013...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105152...
One newer car I am thinking about as a possible alternative, if I can’t find a decent golf, is the Mk5 polo GTI (not the twincharger one), however I have to go and have a look and see if it will be big enough for my needs.
What I look for:
- Tyres. If it has a matching set of top end premium tyres that is a huge indicator that the owner was fastidious. If it has Chinese crap or a mishmash of different types that tells the opposite story.
- The owner themselves. There are some people that I'm just not comfortable buying from and others who you just know are someone you want to buy from. The same is true for traders, trust your gut.
- Whether it 'just needs' something or if everything is spot on. If it 'just needs' one thing it will need a load of more things you haven't spotted yet.
- Test drives: I insist on a decent drive up to at least motorway speed including full bore acceleration and a hard stop. If the seller won't agree to this just move on.
felix64 said:
I don’t want to touch a remapped or modified one thanks. For me that’s a bit of a red flag that it’s likely to have been thrashed. I’m not so keen on the older Leon’s….I actually bought a new 1st gen one in 2001 which turned out to be one of the most disappointing cars I ever owned, lots of coil pack failures, water leaks and developed the most terrible squeaks and rattles.
One newer car I am thinking about as a possible alternative, if I can’t find a decent golf, is the Mk5 polo GTI (not the twincharger one), however I have to go and have a look and see if it will be big enough for my needs.
They were just pointers I didn't read the adverts, those failures you list were common across VAG cars.One newer car I am thinking about as a possible alternative, if I can’t find a decent golf, is the Mk5 polo GTI (not the twincharger one), however I have to go and have a look and see if it will be big enough for my needs.
You do like a VW
with your budget you should be able to find a nice Golf/Leon just take your time.ZX10R NIN said:
They were just pointers I didn't read the adverts, those failures you list were common across VAG cars.
You do like a VW with your budget you should be able to find a nice Golf/Leon just take your time.
Yeah I guess I have a (not completely rational) preference for VW over its VAG stablemates. But I’ll consider the 3rd gen Cupra if a decent looking one comes along in my budget, just been searching and most are too expensive so I wonder if only cheap (potentially dodgy?) ones are within my budget. Still, I’m not in a desperate hurry, the A2 will chunter along for a while longer yet…You do like a VW
with your budget you should be able to find a nice Golf/Leon just take your time.Be prepared to kiss a few frogs before finding your prince !
You're on the right lines, low owners, proven SH, well written advert with a clean car and decent pics etc. There are some rough ones about with tints and baked bean exhausts.
I like to think nice people sell nice cars. I rang a Golf V5 a few years ago and the bloke wouldn't give me his address, just wanted me to drive to a road and ring then he''ll come down from his flat (somewhere inner London) i bottled it lol , texted him with some excuse.
good luck
You're on the right lines, low owners, proven SH, well written advert with a clean car and decent pics etc. There are some rough ones about with tints and baked bean exhausts.
I like to think nice people sell nice cars. I rang a Golf V5 a few years ago and the bloke wouldn't give me his address, just wanted me to drive to a road and ring then he''ll come down from his flat (somewhere inner London) i bottled it lol , texted him with some excuse.
good luck
bearman68 said:
Pfft.
Check the radio.
Button 2 = Radio 2.
Button 4 = Radio 4
Any Nation FM, sunshine, capital b
ks, reject, and shoot the owner.
(OK, that maybe a bit harsh)
Button 1 = Classic FMCheck the radio.
Button 2 = Radio 2.
Button 4 = Radio 4
Any Nation FM, sunshine, capital b
ks, reject, and shoot the owner. (OK, that maybe a bit harsh)
Button 3 = Radio 3
Now those mark out a car you want to buy.
More serious, I personally allow a 10-20% budget when buying anything over around 5 years old.
felix64 said:
Would it generally better value to try and get the car inspected at a local garage (VAG specialist preferably) prior to purchase?
Yes, in my experience. When I test drove a Merc and then got a local specialist garage to inspect it, it only cost me £85 to be told not to touch the car with a bargepole, rather than £200+ I think you're on the right lines. Personally I like private sales and if you can see the seller's history on an owners forum, that can give some insight.
I think generally, a car that has lots of things you can see wrong with it, probably has lots more things you can't see too, and vice-versa.
I suspect things differ depending on the type of car.
I've always seemed to buy dull, sensible, cars (SAABs, Volvos, Lexus, etc) which all seem to be owned by dull, sensible, people - so cars come with lots of service history, expensive tyres, my current Lexus even has hand written notes in the owner's manual.
If you are buying hot hatches they are more likely to be driven with verve (
) or a small MPV will have an uninterested driver and messy kids wrecking the interior.
Just looking at the service history tells a massive story of the car, was it done at a main dealer in a nice area or some fast-fit establishment who bid lowest on the lease company's website. Are the same items appearing on the MoT advisories each year (lots of worn tyres etc).
I've always seemed to buy dull, sensible, cars (SAABs, Volvos, Lexus, etc) which all seem to be owned by dull, sensible, people - so cars come with lots of service history, expensive tyres, my current Lexus even has hand written notes in the owner's manual.
If you are buying hot hatches they are more likely to be driven with verve (
) or a small MPV will have an uninterested driver and messy kids wrecking the interior.Just looking at the service history tells a massive story of the car, was it done at a main dealer in a nice area or some fast-fit establishment who bid lowest on the lease company's website. Are the same items appearing on the MoT advisories each year (lots of worn tyres etc).
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