Noise limits - are we going to have a real problem?
Discussion
Hi all
This side of PH is always very quiet ... but I thought there is a current topic in the press and TV regarding excessive noise and the wish to legislate which should be of interest to most of the local PH community.
Here are some links
http://www.laerm.ch/fr/gestion-du-bruit/sources-de...
https://www.bafu.admin.ch/bafu/fr/home/themes/brui...
Only in local languages DE/FR/IT - google translate otherwise ...
An English language article about Austria which banned some routes from motorcycles
https://motorcycles.news/en/driving-ban-for-too-lo...
Whilst the will is there now in Switzerland to do something, the main questions to me are :
How quickly can something be formulated and put into law ?
Is there an ability to put rules like 92 db in certain areas in effect forbidding most motorbikes and a lot of (interesting) cars ? This despite the vehicles being in conformity at the time of sale with regulations ?
Will there be grandfathering provisions, thereby allowing existing cars/bikes to continue ?
Looking forward to your views and additional insight you might have !
Cheers
Eric
This side of PH is always very quiet ... but I thought there is a current topic in the press and TV regarding excessive noise and the wish to legislate which should be of interest to most of the local PH community.
Here are some links
http://www.laerm.ch/fr/gestion-du-bruit/sources-de...
https://www.bafu.admin.ch/bafu/fr/home/themes/brui...
Only in local languages DE/FR/IT - google translate otherwise ...
An English language article about Austria which banned some routes from motorcycles
https://motorcycles.news/en/driving-ban-for-too-lo...
Whilst the will is there now in Switzerland to do something, the main questions to me are :
How quickly can something be formulated and put into law ?
Is there an ability to put rules like 92 db in certain areas in effect forbidding most motorbikes and a lot of (interesting) cars ? This despite the vehicles being in conformity at the time of sale with regulations ?
Will there be grandfathering provisions, thereby allowing existing cars/bikes to continue ?
Looking forward to your views and additional insight you might have !
Cheers
Eric
Hey Eric
We discussed this on biker banter a few months back. It wasn’t Switzerland specific though.
Here you go…
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Ciao
We discussed this on biker banter a few months back. It wasn’t Switzerland specific though.
Here you go…
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Ciao
Edited by Kawasicki on Thursday 10th June 20:27
Hi Kawasicki
Not quite sure why you wrote this?
Did you follow the links I provided? Are you aware of the CURRENT SWISS situation?
Linking to any discussion that is a year ago and concerns Austria just gives the impression the topic is not worth a discussion and stops contributions on a board that is already lacking in interaction.
So please, everyone else, do contribute your topical knowledge or reactions.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
Not quite sure why you wrote this?
Did you follow the links I provided? Are you aware of the CURRENT SWISS situation?
Linking to any discussion that is a year ago and concerns Austria just gives the impression the topic is not worth a discussion and stops contributions on a board that is already lacking in interaction.
So please, everyone else, do contribute your topical knowledge or reactions.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
speedfr0g said:
Hi Kawasicki
Not quite sure why you wrote this?
Did you follow the links I provided? Are you aware of the CURRENT SWISS situation?
Linking to any discussion that is a year ago and concerns Austria just gives the impression the topic is not worth a discussion and stops contributions on a board that is already lacking in interaction.
So please, everyone else, do contribute your topical knowledge or reactions.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
I wrote my post because a lot of the posters were of the opinion that “who cares what happens in Austria“. So I’d imagine your post about Switzerland will get a similar response.Not quite sure why you wrote this?
Did you follow the links I provided? Are you aware of the CURRENT SWISS situation?
Linking to any discussion that is a year ago and concerns Austria just gives the impression the topic is not worth a discussion and stops contributions on a board that is already lacking in interaction.
So please, everyone else, do contribute your topical knowledge or reactions.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
There are HUGE problems here in the southern Black Forest with bike noise...
The tight valleys and twisty roads make it very interesting/great fun for bikers, but a minority are spoiling it for others.
I'm also a biker, but only ride a small quiet one nowadays, and also hike a lot here, so we hear bike noise often when hiking, especially at the weekend...
A recent police check on a weekend showed that usually the bikers stopped (for noise) had illegal exhausts (usually race pots), and the majority were French and Swiss, who seemed to think that F + CH bikes do not have to conform to German law.
NOT the case! They can have their bikes impounded and get huge fines.... IIRR there were 30 bikes taken off the road earlier this year at 1 checkpoint!
The problem is that the villages in the valleys are now up in arms against bikers in general, not just the illegal pot ones!!!
So you guys are spoiling it for everyone else.... Roads can be closed for bikes as already has been done on the Schauinsland... so beware guys...
The tight valleys and twisty roads make it very interesting/great fun for bikers, but a minority are spoiling it for others.
I'm also a biker, but only ride a small quiet one nowadays, and also hike a lot here, so we hear bike noise often when hiking, especially at the weekend...
A recent police check on a weekend showed that usually the bikers stopped (for noise) had illegal exhausts (usually race pots), and the majority were French and Swiss, who seemed to think that F + CH bikes do not have to conform to German law.
NOT the case! They can have their bikes impounded and get huge fines.... IIRR there were 30 bikes taken off the road earlier this year at 1 checkpoint!
The problem is that the villages in the valleys are now up in arms against bikers in general, not just the illegal pot ones!!!
So you guys are spoiling it for everyone else.... Roads can be closed for bikes as already has been done on the Schauinsland... so beware guys...
Hi JMGS4
I am a biker too and I have not modified my bike ... it is just noisy out-of-the-box (Panigale V4) but is as it was approved for registration.
I also have cars in road legal condition but they do make noise.
I am looking to buy a Challenge Stradale and this is a car with a beautiful noise but extremely (yet factory spec) loud. I wonder whether we will be able to enjoy those vehicles for much longer despite being in conformity with current rules.
I also agree with you that it is a few who push things too far and yet we will all end up with a bad situation.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
I am a biker too and I have not modified my bike ... it is just noisy out-of-the-box (Panigale V4) but is as it was approved for registration.
I also have cars in road legal condition but they do make noise.
I am looking to buy a Challenge Stradale and this is a car with a beautiful noise but extremely (yet factory spec) loud. I wonder whether we will be able to enjoy those vehicles for much longer despite being in conformity with current rules.
I also agree with you that it is a few who push things too far and yet we will all end up with a bad situation.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
speedfr0g said:
Hi JMGS4
I am a biker too and I have not modified my bike ... it is just noisy out-of-the-box (Panigale V4) but is as it was approved for registration.
I also have cars in road legal condition but they do make noise.
I am looking to buy a Challenge Stradale and this is a car with a beautiful noise but extremely (yet factory spec) loud. I wonder whether we will be able to enjoy those vehicles for much longer despite being in conformity with current rules.
I also agree with you that it is a few who push things too far and yet we will all end up with a bad situation.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
Nice Duke!!!I am a biker too and I have not modified my bike ... it is just noisy out-of-the-box (Panigale V4) but is as it was approved for registration.
I also have cars in road legal condition but they do make noise.
I am looking to buy a Challenge Stradale and this is a car with a beautiful noise but extremely (yet factory spec) loud. I wonder whether we will be able to enjoy those vehicles for much longer despite being in conformity with current rules.
I also agree with you that it is a few who push things too far and yet we will all end up with a bad situation.
Cheers
Speedfr0g
Certainly here in Germany the authorities are looking at noise levels on bikes/cars to see how they can be reduced.
Atm the noise levels are measured 1m from the exhaust at a 45° angle to it and only 2000 RPM.... idiocy if you really want to measure noise, as bikes can rev to 12 nay 14 thousand and are then waaaay over any limits... 110+db in some cases...
As long as the law is porous, manufacturers will get around them. Porsche sells a legal extra where you can switch your exhaust straight through, increasing to a lovely sounding level, as a driver, but annoying to pedestrians....
See the town of Singen which has just done a local ban on "posers" with loud exhausts and (mostly) illegal bolt-on plastic mods....(cars in this case)
Just to give you an idea how bike/car noise can travel... we were hiking at around 1300m enjoying the peace and quiet, no planes, Alpensicht etc, looking down on 2 valleys. What we assumed was a bike with a high note howling exhaust, 2 miles away and a thousand metres lower, joined us for a good 3-5 minutes as he/she enjoyed the valley road below us....... other bikes were heard, just in some cases, but that one was extreme...
Edited by JMGS4 on Sunday 13th June 08:45
The problem isnˋt measuring bikes and fining their riders if they are too loud. The problem is banning completely road legal/unmodified bikes because some local authority decides they want to.
I have a Ducati 999 with an official Standgeräusch of 95dB, so it is still legal...my friend has a standard Monster with an official 102. He can no longer legally ride his bike on some of his favourite routes in Austria. He is proper annoyed!
German tuning companies have already discovered a cheap work-around.
I have a Ducati 999 with an official Standgeräusch of 95dB, so it is still legal...my friend has a standard Monster with an official 102. He can no longer legally ride his bike on some of his favourite routes in Austria. He is proper annoyed!
German tuning companies have already discovered a cheap work-around.
Kawasicki said:
The problem isn?t measuring bikes and fining their riders if they are too loud. The problem is banning completely road legal/unmodified bikes because some local authority decides they want to.
I have a Ducati 999 with an official Standgeräusch of 95dB, so it is still legal...my friend has a standard Monster with an official 102. He can no longer legally ride his bike on some of his favourite routes in Austria. He is proper annoyed!
German tuning companies have already discovered a cheap work-around.
Understand your annoyance, however that's the federal system working. Every small town count is allowed to legislate locally..... It should be resolved at a national level.....I have a Ducati 999 with an official Standgeräusch of 95dB, so it is still legal...my friend has a standard Monster with an official 102. He can no longer legally ride his bike on some of his favourite routes in Austria. He is proper annoyed!
German tuning companies have already discovered a cheap work-around.
JMGS4 said:
Kawasicki said:
The problem isn?t measuring bikes and fining their riders if they are too loud. The problem is banning completely road legal/unmodified bikes because some local authority decides they want to.
I have a Ducati 999 with an official Standgeräusch of 95dB, so it is still legal...my friend has a standard Monster with an official 102. He can no longer legally ride his bike on some of his favourite routes in Austria. He is proper annoyed!
German tuning companies have already discovered a cheap work-around.
Understand your annoyance, however that's the federal system working. Every small town count is allowed to legislate locally..... It should be resolved at a national level.....I have a Ducati 999 with an official Standgeräusch of 95dB, so it is still legal...my friend has a standard Monster with an official 102. He can no longer legally ride his bike on some of his favourite routes in Austria. He is proper annoyed!
German tuning companies have already discovered a cheap work-around.
Kawasicki said:
So they've shot themselves in the foot methinks!?!?!? I bet the Austrian Government is wondering why they've become federal when a local potentate/Ortvorsteher/Burgermeister/useless elected idiot can overrule the Police... Ha Ha Ha!!
Hi
Here is the link to the national council giving the go ahead to look into the matter
https://www.parlament.ch/en/ratsbetrieb/suche-curi...
Cheers
Eric
Here is the link to the national council giving the go ahead to look into the matter
https://www.parlament.ch/en/ratsbetrieb/suche-curi...
Cheers
Eric
speedfr0g said:
Hi
Here is the link to the national council giving the go ahead to look into the matter
https://www.parlament.ch/en/ratsbetrieb/suche-curi...
Cheers
Eric
Love the mention of the "anti-noise radar", must be something special that the Bernese have invented!!!Here is the link to the national council giving the go ahead to look into the matter
https://www.parlament.ch/en/ratsbetrieb/suche-curi...
Cheers
Eric
What’s the situation like in CH for noisy non-CH cars. A mate has a very noisy mid-80s 911 and we’re thinking of a week’s driving in the Swiss/Austrian/Italian alps - wondering if he will have a problem? No idea what it measures but the silencer is silly small and LOUD. Pops and bangs on the overrun as well.
Hi AW10
Roads around here can be amazing ... so it is very tempting to come over.
The main thing to look for is SPEED as the law here is very strict and you can risk having your car impounded and have to pay larges fines / could be banned from coming back to Switzerland ....
Here is a quick link to something about it :
https://en.comparis.ch/autoversicherung/recht-gese...
Now to your question of noise, the attitude is very much : does the car correspond to what it was coming out the factory / what noise in standard spec does it make.
If baffles have been taken out or straight pipes ... then you are more likely to have issues ...
... having said that, I would think you are unlikely to be caught for that if you go to deserted mountain passes ... quite different to going into a big city center and revving your engines and popping/banging the exhaust.
But if you are stopped for speeding ... then maybe they will look at noise, bald tyres, ....
Hope this helps
Cheers
Eric
Roads around here can be amazing ... so it is very tempting to come over.
The main thing to look for is SPEED as the law here is very strict and you can risk having your car impounded and have to pay larges fines / could be banned from coming back to Switzerland ....
Here is a quick link to something about it :
https://en.comparis.ch/autoversicherung/recht-gese...
Now to your question of noise, the attitude is very much : does the car correspond to what it was coming out the factory / what noise in standard spec does it make.
If baffles have been taken out or straight pipes ... then you are more likely to have issues ...
... having said that, I would think you are unlikely to be caught for that if you go to deserted mountain passes ... quite different to going into a big city center and revving your engines and popping/banging the exhaust.
But if you are stopped for speeding ... then maybe they will look at noise, bald tyres, ....
Hope this helps
Cheers
Eric
Thanks for the link on the speeding fines - v useful to know. I expect we will be fairly obedient trundling through 30 and 50 zones but there might be some over exuberance in the 80 zones, especially when the road is twisty. Otherwise we’ll be fairly well behaved; blatant disregard for traffic rules has fairly inevitable consequences.
I recall a drive in my Caterham in the late 90s coming up the valley towards the Maloja. I caught up to a marked police car and was just about to pull over to wait to get a clear run when he pulled over and both officers almost frantically waved me past shouting out something in Italian. It would have been rude to not hurry off into the distance so I did just that.
Noise is probably the biggest issue - his rear silencer is perhaps 1/3 the size of the factory silencer and the packing is almost certainly long gone. Am trying to convince him to quieten down the car as I don't fancy a grumpy passenger.
I recall a drive in my Caterham in the late 90s coming up the valley towards the Maloja. I caught up to a marked police car and was just about to pull over to wait to get a clear run when he pulled over and both officers almost frantically waved me past shouting out something in Italian. It would have been rude to not hurry off into the distance so I did just that.
Noise is probably the biggest issue - his rear silencer is perhaps 1/3 the size of the factory silencer and the packing is almost certainly long gone. Am trying to convince him to quieten down the car as I don't fancy a grumpy passenger.
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