Chemistry Lessons
Discussion
It seems that the bombs last week were not "military" grade plastic as previously assumed. It has been revealed today that the bombs were most likely home made with the sort of stuff you can buy at the chemist :yikes: .....who runs all the chemist now?
For obvious reason I am not going to advetise what the bombs were made from or how you make them, but it is scary stuff and highly volatile.........
For obvious reason I am not going to advetise what the bombs were made from or how you make them, but it is scary stuff and highly volatile.........
There are so many ways to make things blow up it's impossible to control access to the ingredients.
One of my mates still has some glass in his back from when he was showing us his explosives prowess
and blew his greenhouse up. At least he is doing it in relative safety now courtesy of HM Armed Forces 
One of my mates still has some glass in his back from when he was showing us his explosives prowess
and blew his greenhouse up. At least he is doing it in relative safety now courtesy of HM Armed Forces Guess this explains why plod have been so very careful when approaching the houses where these people were operating. There are plenty of homemade explosive recipes that can easily leave you with something highly unstable. Clearing up after one of these bastard's home cookery experiments would be pretty near the top of my list of least favourite ways to spend the day.
turbobloke said:
Just replied to this thread - hopefully it will appear when GCHQ and MI5 have finished reading it...
six minute delay
>> Edited by turbobloke on Friday 15th July 11:14
I think you're getting paranoid , I had the same thing on Ferrari , Lambo & Mazz earlier
mind you that could have been the Mafia
In general its pretty easy to make anything go "bang" with a reasonable ferocity. Personally I made fertiliser explosives as a child and they can be quite destructive. But you have to experiment to get the right mixture and even then its not that explosive in the end - makes mincemeat of model cars and stuff, but hardly enough to blow the doors of a real car, never mind a suicide bomb.... What you really need is commercial grade fertiliser and some pretty serious accelerants to start the whole chemical reaction to start....
Access to the pukka stuff is controlled and monitored. Commercial / farm grade fertiliser is only available from certain outlets and you have to apply for a license / approval in advance. You also have to show you have stored it correctly and are subject to audit if necessary. But lets be honest, if Mr Smith of High Farm goes in to buy some then he has to fill-in a load of forms. But Mr Bin Laden is going to trigger a few alarm bells.... not to say that its not possible to get access to it, but its quite hard...
Also, do note that lots of stuff goes bang. Some of it quite spectularily. But what you need is a really high rate of explosivity (cant remember the correct term for it). Fireworks and home made stuff has a low speed of explosivity and hence it nasty if you hold it, or are stood right next to it. But its rarely fatal and causes superficial damage only. Its where the speed at which the explosive turns to gas is high (commercial grade explosives / military grade) - this is where the real damage is done. Access to the materials to do this is extremely limited and hard.
So its easy to make a "bomb". It could even do a bit of damage, but kill and destroy explosives are hard to obtain or make. Dont necessarily believe the papers and the scare stories.... and trust me, fertiliser bombs are actually quite hard to make. It took weeks of experimentation to get a mix that actually did anything, nevermind actually blow up....
Access to the pukka stuff is controlled and monitored. Commercial / farm grade fertiliser is only available from certain outlets and you have to apply for a license / approval in advance. You also have to show you have stored it correctly and are subject to audit if necessary. But lets be honest, if Mr Smith of High Farm goes in to buy some then he has to fill-in a load of forms. But Mr Bin Laden is going to trigger a few alarm bells.... not to say that its not possible to get access to it, but its quite hard...
Also, do note that lots of stuff goes bang. Some of it quite spectularily. But what you need is a really high rate of explosivity (cant remember the correct term for it). Fireworks and home made stuff has a low speed of explosivity and hence it nasty if you hold it, or are stood right next to it. But its rarely fatal and causes superficial damage only. Its where the speed at which the explosive turns to gas is high (commercial grade explosives / military grade) - this is where the real damage is done. Access to the materials to do this is extremely limited and hard.
So its easy to make a "bomb". It could even do a bit of damage, but kill and destroy explosives are hard to obtain or make. Dont necessarily believe the papers and the scare stories.... and trust me, fertiliser bombs are actually quite hard to make. It took weeks of experimentation to get a mix that actually did anything, nevermind actually blow up....
It seems odd that any sort of effort would have been put into making a decent explosive by terrorists - their goal is not to take out destroy trains / buses etc, its to create fear.
You could do that much more easily with something that creates nasty injuries - molotov cocktail in a bag full of rusty nails anyone?
You could do that much more easily with something that creates nasty injuries - molotov cocktail in a bag full of rusty nails anyone?
When I was in school 2 guys in the 2nd year made a huge weedkiller bomb and blew it up in one of the toilets.
The toilets never opened for 3 years.
The 2 guys involved received a 2 week suspension !
Now they would be sent off to Gitmo.
Mind you the guy who tried to kidnap the headmaster with a shotgun was expelled. Think he's now got free board at The Broadmoor Hotel.
The toilets never opened for 3 years.
The 2 guys involved received a 2 week suspension !
Now they would be sent off to Gitmo.
Mind you the guy who tried to kidnap the headmaster with a shotgun was expelled. Think he's now got free board at The Broadmoor Hotel.
lanciachris said:
It seems odd that any sort of effort would have been put into making a decent explosive by terrorists - their goal is not to take out destroy trains / buses etc, its to create fear.
You could do that much more easily with something that creates nasty injuries - molotov cocktail in a bag full of rusty nails anyone?
Actually, you are right. If you really wanted to have a sustained campaign of terror against a nation then real low-level activities should be commenced. Not wishing to write the book on terrorism, you could start with a couple of train de-railings, block a few roads with burning cars then move on to firebombing the underground. Then look at small polluting explosives at water treatment works and wreck the sewerage systems.... How about a few bomb scares and fake 999 calls and then a couple of bombs at electricity sub-stations to cut power to offices and even essential services.... the list goes on. Most of this can be carried out in darkness and doesnt involve loss of life necessarily. A sustained campaign can bring a country to its knees if given long enough.
BUT, the issue is you need people - lots of people to do this. Suicide bombers are few and far between and as a result the biggest single impact that you can make is to blow yourself and a few others up. As a result its the weapon of choice in these situations. Its clear that there are people here in the UK who are willing and able to do this, but thankfully they are very small in number. Its one thing to talk about doing it, its a different thing to actually do it.....
Weedkiller and sugar bombs are relatively easy to make the quantities and the preperation of the materials are key. Alledgedly in my youth I was quite good at it and I could make remote detonated one with shrapnel landing 50yards away on a two storey barn roof and that was the size of half a coke can.
It I imagine would be alot harder to make a rucksack sized weapon work effectively on the mixtures I played with. The important part is the burn speed of the explosive the volume of gas generated and the sealed container it is held in.
It I imagine would be alot harder to make a rucksack sized weapon work effectively on the mixtures I played with. The important part is the burn speed of the explosive the volume of gas generated and the sealed container it is held in.
z1000 said:Nope, not 'getting', always have been
I think you're getting paranoid , I had the same thing on Ferrari , Lambo & Mazz earlier mind you that could have been the Mafia
Ex worked for GCHQ as a cryptanalyst and when she was around you had to fart in code lanciachris said:Potential death isn't enough to generate fear?! Then there's the other dimension, if the terrorist bomber doesn't die they won't go staight to paradise and spend eternity shagging 75 virgins or whatever. If they're going, they'll take others along.
It seems odd that any sort of effort would have been put into making a decent explosive by terrorists - their goal is not to take out destroy trains / buses etc, its to create fear.
I'm a chemist as well as a nutter and I'm fully versed in what can go bang. The modern textbooks aren't so good on making bombs and drugs but the old ones you find in bookshops are great. Here is the snag...Although you can easily get hold of the reactants and purify them (to get rid of the anti-explosive nasties) detonators are a problem. Making your own detonators is relatively easy but involves considerable risk. You aren't dealing with stuff which goes bang, you're dealing with stuff which destroys buildings, as what you will have made your detonator with is reactive, how can you be sure it will not react with oxygen, make explosive peroxides which go off while you're setting it up, perhaps there would be a reaction with impurities in your stuff, some easily home made detonators are light sensitive and also go off when they touch anything organic (your fingers!). I could go down to my shed now and make a pretty big bomb but I could never be sure that it wouldn't go off before I wanted it to. That's the risk and even as an expert (inorganic chemist) I would have serious reservations, even if I had to do it legally.
These people are blatant nutters with no respect for themselves either. The old Ammonium Nitrate/Diesel combo is well known and safe to handle and make BUT again, if your detonator screws up, you'll lose a lot more than your fingers. I suppose there is a risk of people reading a few old books and making a very bad decision, some of the old detonators which at a push you could make in your shed (lead azide, mercury fulminate) are SERIOUSLY dangerous and if you as much snap a crystal (they are like micro needles) the whole lot goes up, cue flying glass and lost fingers.
I wouldn't even attempt making any explosives, allthough I have removed a tree stump using chemical methods (black powder)
These people are blatant nutters with no respect for themselves either. The old Ammonium Nitrate/Diesel combo is well known and safe to handle and make BUT again, if your detonator screws up, you'll lose a lot more than your fingers. I suppose there is a risk of people reading a few old books and making a very bad decision, some of the old detonators which at a push you could make in your shed (lead azide, mercury fulminate) are SERIOUSLY dangerous and if you as much snap a crystal (they are like micro needles) the whole lot goes up, cue flying glass and lost fingers.
I wouldn't even attempt making any explosives, allthough I have removed a tree stump using chemical methods
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