Options - better TV sound
Discussion
Hi, just in the process of getting a new TV, gone for this one https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertai...
We'll use the TV mainly on streaming (Netflix, Disney, Prime etc) and also via a Humax Freesat box - we have no standard aerial connection.
I'd like some kind of system to give me better sound - this is replacing a panasonic TV which was never good sound quality. I'm no techie in this space, so I want something that upgrades the sound quality, but isn't going to be hassle to set up / sync etc. I've read some soundbars can be a pain in this department.
My thoughts on options
1) Really simple which I did before, plug in a standard two channel amp and get some speakers
2) Soundbar / Sub - the problem is I don't really like the look of a soundbar under the TV (we'll have it on a TV cabinet not wall)
3) A home cinema set up - this is where my knowledge where's thin and a quick skim on various hi-fi sites baffles me.
I don't want wires all over the place i.e. to rear speakers
And, this may be a basic question, but if I went for home cinema, does the TV connect to the speakers...and if so, how does this work with the Humax box / recorder ?
Any views on best bet here....budget up to say £500...I already have a nice two channel Marantz Amp, so the two speaker option will be low cost.
thanks.
We'll use the TV mainly on streaming (Netflix, Disney, Prime etc) and also via a Humax Freesat box - we have no standard aerial connection.
I'd like some kind of system to give me better sound - this is replacing a panasonic TV which was never good sound quality. I'm no techie in this space, so I want something that upgrades the sound quality, but isn't going to be hassle to set up / sync etc. I've read some soundbars can be a pain in this department.
My thoughts on options
1) Really simple which I did before, plug in a standard two channel amp and get some speakers
2) Soundbar / Sub - the problem is I don't really like the look of a soundbar under the TV (we'll have it on a TV cabinet not wall)
3) A home cinema set up - this is where my knowledge where's thin and a quick skim on various hi-fi sites baffles me.
I don't want wires all over the place i.e. to rear speakers
And, this may be a basic question, but if I went for home cinema, does the TV connect to the speakers...and if so, how does this work with the Humax box / recorder ?
Any views on best bet here....budget up to say £500...I already have a nice two channel Marantz Amp, so the two speaker option will be low cost.
thanks.
We have a Humax Foxsat-hd box and I recently upgraded our TV from a non-smart Samsung to a smart Philips TV.
WORD OF WARNING: the lip synch between the Humax and the Philips is WAY OFF and currently neither Philips nor Humax are able to offer us a solution! The TV works fine if you use a direct satellite dish input and it also works ok with non-HD channels through the Humax. But almost all HD channels when watched through the Humax are not lip synched properly.
Oh and we also use a Sony soundbar which works fine with both the TV and the Humax....
Hope this helps.
WORD OF WARNING: the lip synch between the Humax and the Philips is WAY OFF and currently neither Philips nor Humax are able to offer us a solution! The TV works fine if you use a direct satellite dish input and it also works ok with non-HD channels through the Humax. But almost all HD channels when watched through the Humax are not lip synched properly.
Oh and we also use a Sony soundbar which works fine with both the TV and the Humax....
Hope this helps.
A lot of people will tell you that no soundbar will sound as good as a stereo amp and some decent speakers (decent being an appropriately vague term here). I don't necessarily disagree with them, but soundbars can sound surprisingly decent.
The other option is a soundbase - goes under the telly, but instead of being a bar format it's, erm, a box. More air inside, more space for bigger drivers, so typically a richer deeper sound. I have a Canton DM55 up in the loft - used it in the last house, but have a big Sennheiser soundbar now which is even better - and music sounded very decent through that.
Basically you need to pick a compromise between form and function, taking into account what connections your telly has. My current setup has the soundbar on HDMI 3 of my telly, which has eARC (Audio Return Channel), with the consoles going into HDMI 1 via a switcher. That way the sound from the consoles goes into the telly and back out to the soundbar; sound from the telly goes direct to the soundbar. It didn't work as well with the switcher into the soundbar, no idea why.
The other option is a soundbase - goes under the telly, but instead of being a bar format it's, erm, a box. More air inside, more space for bigger drivers, so typically a richer deeper sound. I have a Canton DM55 up in the loft - used it in the last house, but have a big Sennheiser soundbar now which is even better - and music sounded very decent through that.
Basically you need to pick a compromise between form and function, taking into account what connections your telly has. My current setup has the soundbar on HDMI 3 of my telly, which has eARC (Audio Return Channel), with the consoles going into HDMI 1 via a switcher. That way the sound from the consoles goes into the telly and back out to the soundbar; sound from the telly goes direct to the soundbar. It didn't work as well with the switcher into the soundbar, no idea why.
Agree with the above. Option 1. 500 notes at Richersounds will get you a very good sounding mid range 2.0 stereo setup. It'll not give any surround sound / cinematic experience for movies, but for everyday tv (a lot of which is stereo anyway) will sound a lot better than a standalone TV.
Connectivity, simple stereo phono out from the back of your tv into the amp, this will cover all connected devices, check the back of your tv has phono audio outs. Other methods of connectivity may work (hdmi, optical, coax) but I'd suggest discussing with richersounds to check compatibility with the new amp. Phono may be quickest/cheapest/simplest.
Connectivity, simple stereo phono out from the back of your tv into the amp, this will cover all connected devices, check the back of your tv has phono audio outs. Other methods of connectivity may work (hdmi, optical, coax) but I'd suggest discussing with richersounds to check compatibility with the new amp. Phono may be quickest/cheapest/simplest.
SeanyD said:
Agree with the above. Option 1. 500 notes at Richersounds will get you a very good sounding mid range 2.0 stereo setup. It'll not give any surround sound / cinematic experience for movies, but for everyday tv (a lot of which is stereo anyway) will sound a lot better than a standalone TV.
I've never been mad-impressed with surround sound, and I've heard some very decent systems. It just doesn't add much to the experience for me, past the first impressions of breaking glass and bullets and helicopters behind you. I use a traditional set up of TV into Hifi amp and 2 floorstanders.
Amp has analogue inputs only so I use an Audiogenie B1 bluetooth DAC to connect my TV via bluetooth to the DAC, then the DAC has normal RCA outputs and straight into my analogue amp.
Works a treat. Other bluetooth connectors are available for a much lower cost but this one sounds great, which is important to me.
I notice the TV the OP is considering does not have RCA outputs but does have bluetooth connectivity.
Amp has analogue inputs only so I use an Audiogenie B1 bluetooth DAC to connect my TV via bluetooth to the DAC, then the DAC has normal RCA outputs and straight into my analogue amp.
Works a treat. Other bluetooth connectors are available for a much lower cost but this one sounds great, which is important to me.
I notice the TV the OP is considering does not have RCA outputs but does have bluetooth connectivity.
Sporky said:
I've never been mad-impressed with surround sound, and I've heard some very decent systems. It just doesn't add much to the experience for me, past the first impressions of breaking glass and bullets and helicopters behind you.
We had five minutes of fun with four speakers and a helicopter demo on my mate's 486 DX2 66MHz (£3,000!), after that it's all a bit meh.Optical output from TV into amp with built in DAC, connected to some speakers. Buy a network receiver instead of vanilla amp if you want to use internet radio and music streaming services. Will sound great. Talk to Richers or Peter Tyson, they’ll sort you out. You could just buy a cheap DAC to plug into your Marantz.
Edited by troika on Thursday 27th May 12:20
Edited by troika on Thursday 27th May 12:22
For the TV audio out connection, I would avoid Bluetooth. There are various different versions of it, and one in particular is a variant of Bluetooth 5.0 with low latency, but you have to have both the TV and the BT receiver with that variant or else you could be stuck with about 1/3rd of a second audio delay. It's just too much hassle and cost.
The simple solution for audio out if analogue stereo is required but not supported by the TV is an Optical to Stereo convertor. These are available for under £20. Prozor Optical
Some versions will take power from one of the USB sockets on the TV, but it may need to be a higher power version of USB. Other variants of the convertors come with a wall wart power supply. This is more fool-proof and worth spending a Quid or two more than the USB-powered versions.
Where the aim is just better sound than the TV, then £100-£150 will generally nail that. TV speakers don't have much space to operate in todays wafer-thin flatscreen TVs, and they're often pointing away from the listener because the screen has no space around the edges for sound to be directed forward. A sound bar or sound base changes both of those things; more space and forward-firing speakers, and so it has a big advantage immediately.
Where convenience is a priority, and the TV has an ARC or eARC enabled HDMI socket, then choose a soundbar with ARC too. (eARC won't add anything for a basic stereo or stereo-with-sub soundbar as its benefits only really kick in for full multichannel surround.) The reason is that via ARC, the TV handset will control the On/Off and volume functions for the soundbar with no additional set-up other than making sure that HDMI control is enabled on both devices. This also works of you're using any other handset such as a Sky IR remote to control the TV volume. It's easy and simple.
The other common option for a soundbar or soundbase audio connection from the TV is Optical. This will deliver exactly the same sound quality as HDMI via ARC, but it lacks the control features. In simpler terms, you need to pick up the soundbar remote to switch the thing On/Off and to change volume. Some soundbars come with a a feature where the bar can be programmed to respond to the TV remote's IR signal even though using Optical. Sonos does this, but the cost is higher. Go HDMI ARC for an easier and lower-cost solution.
The Wharfedale Vista 200 @ £120 has HDMI ARC, and so too does the Polk Audio Signa S2 with wireless sub at £220.
The idea of a stereo amp and speakers is great. It's going to sound better for TV audio and infinitely better for music so long as the speakers can be placed well enough to get a decent stereo image. Use an Optical convertor for the audio connection for the best sound quality. Set the TV audio out to PCM mode in the audio menus.
Bear in mind you'll need an amp with remote control for volume unless you want to keep getting up to change the sound level. The Optical output on the TV doesn't change level with the volume control. Forget too about trying to control the amp volume with the TV handset. There are third-party remotes that will control the TV main functions but substitute audio control of the amp when the volume buttons are pressed, but that's an additional cost as much as a basic soundbar.
Some might suggest using the headphone output on the TV to drive an external amp. That will work so long as the TV has a headphone out, but it may not be the most practical solution if to control that level rather than the TV speakers you have to dive through several menu levels to get to the control function. Check the manual for any intended TV purchase as YMMV.
The simple solution for audio out if analogue stereo is required but not supported by the TV is an Optical to Stereo convertor. These are available for under £20. Prozor Optical
Some versions will take power from one of the USB sockets on the TV, but it may need to be a higher power version of USB. Other variants of the convertors come with a wall wart power supply. This is more fool-proof and worth spending a Quid or two more than the USB-powered versions.
Where the aim is just better sound than the TV, then £100-£150 will generally nail that. TV speakers don't have much space to operate in todays wafer-thin flatscreen TVs, and they're often pointing away from the listener because the screen has no space around the edges for sound to be directed forward. A sound bar or sound base changes both of those things; more space and forward-firing speakers, and so it has a big advantage immediately.
Where convenience is a priority, and the TV has an ARC or eARC enabled HDMI socket, then choose a soundbar with ARC too. (eARC won't add anything for a basic stereo or stereo-with-sub soundbar as its benefits only really kick in for full multichannel surround.) The reason is that via ARC, the TV handset will control the On/Off and volume functions for the soundbar with no additional set-up other than making sure that HDMI control is enabled on both devices. This also works of you're using any other handset such as a Sky IR remote to control the TV volume. It's easy and simple.
The other common option for a soundbar or soundbase audio connection from the TV is Optical. This will deliver exactly the same sound quality as HDMI via ARC, but it lacks the control features. In simpler terms, you need to pick up the soundbar remote to switch the thing On/Off and to change volume. Some soundbars come with a a feature where the bar can be programmed to respond to the TV remote's IR signal even though using Optical. Sonos does this, but the cost is higher. Go HDMI ARC for an easier and lower-cost solution.
The Wharfedale Vista 200 @ £120 has HDMI ARC, and so too does the Polk Audio Signa S2 with wireless sub at £220.
The idea of a stereo amp and speakers is great. It's going to sound better for TV audio and infinitely better for music so long as the speakers can be placed well enough to get a decent stereo image. Use an Optical convertor for the audio connection for the best sound quality. Set the TV audio out to PCM mode in the audio menus.
Bear in mind you'll need an amp with remote control for volume unless you want to keep getting up to change the sound level. The Optical output on the TV doesn't change level with the volume control. Forget too about trying to control the amp volume with the TV handset. There are third-party remotes that will control the TV main functions but substitute audio control of the amp when the volume buttons are pressed, but that's an additional cost as much as a basic soundbar.
Some might suggest using the headphone output on the TV to drive an external amp. That will work so long as the TV has a headphone out, but it may not be the most practical solution if to control that level rather than the TV speakers you have to dive through several menu levels to get to the control function. Check the manual for any intended TV purchase as YMMV.
Good point about Bluetooth and latency. For some reason, I don't experience this with my combination but have with others.
For optical to RCA (TV to amp) you could avoid Bluetooth and use one of these : CYP AU-D3-192. Digital Audio to Stereo Audio Converter (DAC) (£60).
What works for you also depends on your circumstances. When I moved into my house, 2 x HDMI cables, 1 x power cable, were plastered into the walls next to the TV wall mount. This means that there are no 'hanging' cables from the TV - quite neat. Adding an optical cable would've meant messing up the clean lines, so checking out Bluetooth, in this example was worth the hassle.
I don't use my Humax box anymore which has now 'freed up' one of the countersunk HDMI cables, so I could now use and HDMI to RCA converter without additional hanging cables.
For optical to RCA (TV to amp) you could avoid Bluetooth and use one of these : CYP AU-D3-192. Digital Audio to Stereo Audio Converter (DAC) (£60).
What works for you also depends on your circumstances. When I moved into my house, 2 x HDMI cables, 1 x power cable, were plastered into the walls next to the TV wall mount. This means that there are no 'hanging' cables from the TV - quite neat. Adding an optical cable would've meant messing up the clean lines, so checking out Bluetooth, in this example was worth the hassle.
I don't use my Humax box anymore which has now 'freed up' one of the countersunk HDMI cables, so I could now use and HDMI to RCA converter without additional hanging cables.
Pitre said:
We have a Humax Foxsat-hd box and I recently upgraded our TV from a non-smart Samsung to a smart Philips TV.
WORD OF WARNING: the lip synch between the Humax and the Philips is WAY OFF and currently neither Philips nor Humax are able to offer us a solution! The TV works fine if you use a direct satellite dish input and it also works ok with non-HD channels through the Humax. But almost all HD channels when watched through the Humax are not lip synched properly.
Oh and we also use a Sony soundbar which works fine with both the TV and the Humax....
Hope this helps.
Humax never really got to grips with the advanced feature set of HDMI e.g. control and auto lip sync. You (and Humax) are not alone though in having lip sync issues with external audio products. Handling Dolby Digital seems to be a bit of a problem for 4K UHD TVs. There have been plenty of complaints from SkyQ users about lip sync issues too. WORD OF WARNING: the lip synch between the Humax and the Philips is WAY OFF and currently neither Philips nor Humax are able to offer us a solution! The TV works fine if you use a direct satellite dish input and it also works ok with non-HD channels through the Humax. But almost all HD channels when watched through the Humax are not lip synched properly.
Oh and we also use a Sony soundbar which works fine with both the TV and the Humax....
Hope this helps.
Have you tried switching from Bitstream/Dolby to simple stereo PCM? I know that it loses you the discrete multichannel surround out of HD channels, but it might save your sanity.
I am a Humax user too. What I see us that Humax software doesn't allow HDMI Control to be switched off. In my case, the lounge system has Sky as the main source, and we use HDMI Control to unify functionality between the box, the AV receiver (standby pass-through, a Firestick, a BD player and the TV.
The Humax is there for me to.play around with for customer support. But I can't justify switching off HDMI Control just to make it play nice. What I got instate was a HDMI Control isolator cable. It's a little extension cable add-on that does what it says on the tin. HDMI picture and sound passes but HDMI CEC is blocked. You'll find these on Ebay and Amazon. Worth a try and then you can set lip sync manually if the TV has it.
Sporky said:
A lot of people will tell you that no soundbar will sound as good as a stereo amp and some decent speakers (decent being an appropriately vague term here). I don't necessarily disagree with them, but soundbars can sound surprisingly decent.
The other option is a soundbase - goes under the telly, but instead of being a bar format it's, erm, a box. More air inside, more space for bigger drivers, so typically a richer deeper sound. I have a Canton DM55 up in the loft - used it in the last house, but have a big Sennheiser soundbar now which is even better - and music sounded very decent through that.
Basically you need to pick a compromise between form and function, taking into account what connections your telly has. My current setup has the soundbar on HDMI 3 of my telly, which has eARC (Audio Return Channel), with the consoles going into HDMI 1 via a switcher. That way the sound from the consoles goes into the telly and back out to the soundbar; sound from the telly goes direct to the soundbar. It didn't work as well with the switcher into the soundbar, no idea why.
I've got a Canton DM55. I like it for TV and quite decent for music.The other option is a soundbase - goes under the telly, but instead of being a bar format it's, erm, a box. More air inside, more space for bigger drivers, so typically a richer deeper sound. I have a Canton DM55 up in the loft - used it in the last house, but have a big Sennheiser soundbar now which is even better - and music sounded very decent through that.
Basically you need to pick a compromise between form and function, taking into account what connections your telly has. My current setup has the soundbar on HDMI 3 of my telly, which has eARC (Audio Return Channel), with the consoles going into HDMI 1 via a switcher. That way the sound from the consoles goes into the telly and back out to the soundbar; sound from the telly goes direct to the soundbar. It didn't work as well with the switcher into the soundbar, no idea why.
Another vote for option 1. Since you (OP) already have a perfectly adequate two channel amp, all you need is a cheap DAC as mentioned above, and whatever speakers suit your budget and domestic arrangements.
With our TV we have a tiny class D amp with a pair of good quality bookshelf/standmount speakers. Sounds great with everything.
With our TV we have a tiny class D amp with a pair of good quality bookshelf/standmount speakers. Sounds great with everything.
Zarco said:
I've got a Canton DM55. I like it for TV and quite decent for music.
Mine was a free upgrade from a DM50 which lost one channel just after the end of the warranty - they were rather nice about that. I don't think they sounded different, but the glass top on the DM55 was nice.Also, while it might sound trivial, the remote control was really nice. Very heavy, dead simple.
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