Selling cars in 2021 - The pitfalls

[maz8062]

Spurred on by the thread highlighting some of the fibs sellers tell in their for sale ads, I’ve recently had an experience as a seller that highlights the potential pitfalls out there for sellers.

My SLK is up for sale on eBay - a chap sent a first email asking if the tune on the car had “pops and bangs”. I ignored the question initially but he persisted. Turns out he is very interested in the car and wants it - a viewing almost seemed like an after thought.

The chap is based in Maidstone, I’m in west Essex, so I offered to meet half way - he preferred to come to my house and had an HPI done. Apparently the fact that he had spent £20 on an HPI check meant that he was a serious buyer. Fair enough, but I’m treading carefully because I’ve had so many attempts to scam this car off me that I’m weary of folk that show interest to buy sight unseen.

Anyway, all is going well - I have his contact number so was able to see who he is on WhatsApp so no issues there, until he throws a spanner in the works. He asks for my I.d., the full V5 showing my name, address (matching ID) and the serial number on the V5. He wants this info before viewing the car and sends me a copy of his drivers licence to somehow prove that it is fine.

I politely insist that all documents are in order but I’d prefer to show all this info at the viewing. He gets upset, claims there is a trust issue and is now no longer interested. Tit!

Onwards and upwards I guess. I’m not peeved at the appearance of a lost sale, I’m just confused why folk demand all this info upfront before even seeing a car. Weird.

[grudas]

some people are over the top when it comes to buying/selling. Just the nature when parting with big amounts of money.

others are completely unaware of even the basics. I had a guy turn up at 10pm(4hrs late) in rain, not drive it or check it etc and just ping me 4k over and left without questions.

[Jamescrs]

I get it seems over the top but I do know with the HPI checks to get the guarantees the HPI company offer against the car being cloned etc you have to provide the V5 serial number for validation.

[mellowman]

I had a seller get mightily upset when I asked for the V5 information wanted by HPI to validate their guarantee. All kinds of accusations of scams, mistrust and ill will threatened to scupper the deal. I was handing over £9k without seeing the vehicle in the flesh so I thought the request was reasonable, especially as the info is purely for HPI's purposes.

In the end I just had to do without it and tiptoe around the guy to buy the vehicle before he went off in an almighty huff.

Buyers can get in a right pickle too though. A guy bought a nearly new Ducati off me and the deal was almost abandoned because he expected to get a red key instead of a black key. I'd bought it new from a main dealer and everything was in in order, but he had it in his mind it came with a red key instead of a regular black spare key!

[Paddymcc]

mellowman said:

I had a seller get mightily upset when I asked for the V5 information wanted by HPI to validate their guarantee. All kinds of accusations of scams, mistrust and ill will threatened to scupper the deal. I was handing over £9k without seeing the vehicle in the flesh so I thought the request was reasonable, especially as the info is purely for HPI's purposes.

In the end I just had to do without it and tiptoe around the guy to buy the vehicle before he went off in an almighty huff.

Buyers can get in a right pickle too though. A guy bought a nearly new Ducati off me and the deal was almost abandoned because he expected to get a red key instead of a black key. I'd bought it new from a main dealer and everything was in in order, but he had it in his mind it came with a red key instead of a regular black spare key!

Had similar before dealing with an old couple.

They even took photocopies of my license and when it came time to test drive the car, it got interesting when they were afraid i was going to steal it. After a few minutes of back and forward i just give them an ultimatum that im not buying it without driving it.

Watching them count the money 4 times after we agreed a price was fun.

[maz8062]

Jamescrs said:

I get it seems over the top but I do know with the HPI checks to get the guarantees the HPI company offer against the car being cloned etc you have to provide the V5 serial number for validation.

This is fair enough, but why do people need this info upfront? Why can't the HPI fraud guarantee be effected on the day? The chap turns up, has a gander of the V5 documents, the serial number, ID and VIN at the same time. Job done. It's disconcerting providing all of this personal info upfront to a total stranger.

Oh well, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.

[griffter]

[quote] I offered to meet half way - he preferred to come to my house
[/quote]

He’d want to see you live where the vehicle is registered. So would I!

[Rankss]

maz8062 said:

Jamescrs said:

I get it seems over the top but I do know with the HPI checks to get the guarantees the HPI company offer against the car being cloned etc you have to provide the V5 serial number for validation.

This is fair enough, but why do people need this info upfront? Why can't the HPI fraud guarantee be effected on the day?

It’s to reduce payouts from HPI from their point of view. So HPI don’t have to pay out after the event.

Say the car is a write off / cloned car, or whatever is a fail about it. And its £20k priced.

Buyer, does just that and buys it pays the seller £20k. Effects the HPI check on the same day, car comes bad from the check with red warning results about the history of a car already purchased.

Buyer, does the check /before/ the purchase. HPI check comes back with red flags. Buyer either doesn’t proceed, or proceeds but with eyes open. No claim against HPI, saving compared to the check after the sale, saving HPI check company £20k pay out.

Or if you had a car with bad history... sell it to an acquaintance for top dollar... buyer does a HPI check... and your friend the buyer gets all the money back which he passes back to you as didn’t want the car anyway. Top way to convert car with checkered history to top dollar courtesy of an insurance pay out from HPI.

Doing HPI checks after the event would be a massive risk and cost to HPI company. They are indemnifying that their check is accurate, not that any car you buy and then check after the event is ok. The difference between the two on timings of the check, is huge from the insurance company POV that is indemnifying risk.

[maz8062]

This is what HPI suggests:

HPI said:

Check the paperwork
Validate the VIN (Chassis number) and Logbook using HPI Fraud Guard in the box above. It's important that you check the documents and Chassis number yourself. DO NOT rely on the seller to provide these details.
Check the Chassis numbers under the bonnet of the car and on the windscreen both match the number shown on the Logbook.
Make sure the Logbook is genuine - a genuine document will have a DVLA watermark.
Is the seller the rightful owner of the vehicle? Ask to see ID and check the details against those shown on the Logbook.
Does the address you're buying the vehicle from match the address shown on the Logbook? Always try to meet the seller at the registered address. Avoid meeting in neutral locations such as carparks or laybys or allowing the seller to bring the vehicle to you address.

I still don’t understand why this cannot be done on the day, before sealing the deal and transferring funds across. If the buyer has a checklist on the day and marks them all off before agreeing to buy the car, and insisting on a receipt etc. I don’t understand why this has to be done based on a buyer expressing an interest.

[Rankss]

It can be done in person on the day, with the seller there. People are asking for the information remotely, possibly to save travel time.. but you’ve also as a buyer got to look into insuring so can drive away, bank transfer, getting shot of your old car possibly. So many don’t want to go through that.. and have sold their car and got insurance bought... only to find out on the day after a 100mile travel that the car is 🍋 lemon

With all the scams, sellers be rightly IMO wary of handing this information remotely. But if you want someone to buy your car, you would need to provide it in person face to face (again that would be my view)

When people mask their number plate on pictures... I get why... but first thing people ask is what’s the reg for MOT check... might as well put the ref in the advert!

Edited by Rankss on Friday 23 April 12:16

[maz8062]

You know, I want to get this car sold but I’ve learned to follow my gut on these things. By way of smoothing things over I even offered a spare set of wheels for the car, which I said I’d post to his house FOC, a child booster seat with a transponder to deactivate the air bag, and an OEM 6.5 ltrs oil and oil filter set to change the oil. I even gave him my full address which shows the car on my drive on street view. All I asked was for a deposit - £100 was fine - refundable if everything didn’t check out, and I asked to carry out the checks on my drive rather than on WhatsApp.

He was adamant that the info was sent beforehand, so we’re at an impasse. In the end it comes down to trust - he doesn’t trust me nor me him. Such transactions should always been conducted face to face IMO - selling cars for thousands of pounds by text and email is not what I’m used to.

[Rankss]

You're right. If the person won't come to view it to do checks then I wouldn't send over remotely

If the 'buyer' is like this now, they well be a plonker later on too. They seem like trouble. Probably would be trouble.

I'd just say, I can't do any more for you. Welcome to come and view.

[pb8g09]

maz8062 said:

You know, I want to get this car sold but I’ve learned to follow my gut on these things. By way of smoothing things over I even offered a spare set of wheels for the car, which I said I’d post to his house FOC, a child booster seat with a transponder to deactivate the air bag, and an OEM 6.5 ltrs oil and oil filter set to change the oil. I even gave him my full address which shows the car on my drive on street view. All I asked was for a deposit - £100 was fine - refundable if everything didn’t check out, and I asked to carry out the checks on my drive rather than on WhatsApp.

He was adamant that the info was sent beforehand, so we’re at an impasse. In the end it comes down to trust - he doesn’t trust me nor me him. Such transactions should always been conducted face to face IMO - selling cars for thousands of pounds by text and email is not what I’m used to.

I probably wouldn't have bothered with the deposit and just given him a time window to arrive at yours and that it's still up for sale until money is in your account.

Maybe the prospect of handing over money to a stranger was the real reason he got spooked.

[Roger Irrelevant]

Rankss said:

maz8062 said:

Jamescrs said:

I get it seems over the top but I do know with the HPI checks to get the guarantees the HPI company offer against the car being cloned etc you have to provide the V5 serial number for validation.

This is fair enough, but why do people need this info upfront? Why can't the HPI fraud guarantee be effected on the day?

It’s to reduce payouts from HPI from their point of view. So HPI don’t have to pay out after the event.

Say the car is a write off / cloned car, or whatever is a fail about it. And its £20k priced.

Buyer, does just that and buys it pays the seller £20k. Effects the HPI check on the same day, car comes bad from the check with red warning results about the history of a car already purchased.

Buyer, does the check /before/ the purchase. HPI check comes back with red flags. Buyer either doesn’t proceed, or proceeds but with eyes open. No claim against HPI, saving compared to the check after the sale, saving HPI check company £20k pay out.

Or if you had a car with bad history... sell it to an acquaintance for top dollar... buyer does a HPI check... and your friend the buyer gets all the money back which he passes back to you as didn’t want the car anyway. Top way to convert car with checkered history to top dollar courtesy of an insurance pay out from HPI.

Doing HPI checks after the event would be a massive risk and cost to HPI company. They are indemnifying that their check is accurate, not that any car you buy and then check after the event is ok. The difference between the two on timings of the check, is huge from the insurance company POV that is indemnifying risk.

But... nobody's suggesting that you should be able to do an HPI check after you've bought the car. As you say that would be pretty pointless as you clearly haven't relied on it when buying the car so your comeback against HPI would be zero no matter what they said. They're suggesting you do it just before you buy, after you've seen the car isn't a dog by viewing it in flesh but before you hand over the readies. Or have I fundamentally misunderstood something here?!

[irocfan]

I suspect that is why places like we buy any car, motorway etc are becoming more popular.... just does away with the ahole quotient, for a price

[ChrisH72]

Most of these issues either way are down to distance selling.

I have learned never to buy a car which is over an hours drive away. I’d rather wait until something more local comes up. Similarly, I’d rather sell to someone local who is able to easily come and view the car in person. When selling my last car I did get a couple of enquiries from people who lived hundreds of miles away. I told them they were welcome to come and look at it but I didn’t want to get into deposits or endless amount of info by text and email. In the end a local guy bought it.

[Lamborghini Doors]

This is the main reason I don't tell my cars privately. Just too much stress. Better off in my opinion losing a few Bob but selling it to a dealer or we buy any cRt.

[irocfan]

ChrisH72 said:

Most of these issues either way are down to distance selling.

I have learned never to buy a car which is over an hours drive away. I’d rather wait until something more local comes up. Similarly, I’d rather sell to someone local who is able to easily come and view the car in person. When selling my last car I did get a couple of enquiries from people who lived hundreds of miles away. I told them they were welcome to come and look at it but I didn’t want to get into deposits or endless amount of info by text and email. In the end a local guy bought it.

which is fine if you want a 'normal' car but anything even slightly out of the ordinary, you're stuffed.

[ChrisH72]

irocfan said:

which is fine if you want a 'normal' car but anything even slightly out of the ordinary, you're stuffed.

Maybe, but then specialist cars are often owned by enthusiasts in the first place so there’s a much greater chance that they are genuine. You can usually tell just by speaking to the seller over the phone.

In any case, the onus is on the buyer to do the appropriate checks and make sure they look over the car thoroughly before buying. It’s no concern of the seller how far someone has to travel.

[irocfan]

ChrisH72 said:

In any case, the onus is on the buyer to do the appropriate checks and make sure they look over the car thoroughly before buying. It’s no concern of the seller how far someone has to travel.

no question whatsoever