Anyone had a 2011 Kendo 2 litre?
Discussion
Hi folks,
We've had our NB Icon for a while now and fancy a change to a bit newer and have seen ads for a few NC 2011 Kendos with PRHT (only 2 litre I believe). Has anyone had one long term - perhaps even after moving from NB 1.8? The Kendo ticks all the boxes in either colour, mainly because of the light interior leather - except for the Ford engine. Seem to be fair value for money - even lowish mileage ones are sub £10k.
Any really awful bits to be wary of?
Ian
We've had our NB Icon for a while now and fancy a change to a bit newer and have seen ads for a few NC 2011 Kendos with PRHT (only 2 litre I believe). Has anyone had one long term - perhaps even after moving from NB 1.8? The Kendo ticks all the boxes in either colour, mainly because of the light interior leather - except for the Ford engine. Seem to be fair value for money - even lowish mileage ones are sub £10k.
Any really awful bits to be wary of?
Ian
We bought a 1.8 Arctic new in 2004. By 2013 it had got to the stage where we needed to spend some money on it as the rear arches were starting to rust, we also had a 2 year old daughter so instead decided to upgrade to a 2011 kendo 2.0 roadster coupe.
The NC felt better screwed together and quicker than the NB, but not as classic. It was much more refined with the hard roof and felt more of a daily driver although could still provoke the tail if you wanted. We replaced it with a new 2.0 ND in 2019, by then the NC was starting to get MOT advisories for general corrosion underneath. I had a look under it and it appeared to only be on the subframes, although we did have a patch of rust on the front slam pane from when it was only 3 years old, as it hadn’t perforated Mazda wouldn’t do anything about it. It was otherwise reliable and only had routine servicing, although my wife only did minuscule mileage in it, I think it only had 12k on it when we part exchanged it.
The NC felt better screwed together and quicker than the NB, but not as classic. It was much more refined with the hard roof and felt more of a daily driver although could still provoke the tail if you wanted. We replaced it with a new 2.0 ND in 2019, by then the NC was starting to get MOT advisories for general corrosion underneath. I had a look under it and it appeared to only be on the subframes, although we did have a patch of rust on the front slam pane from when it was only 3 years old, as it hadn’t perforated Mazda wouldn’t do anything about it. It was otherwise reliable and only had routine servicing, although my wife only did minuscule mileage in it, I think it only had 12k on it when we part exchanged it.
Thanks Fatco,
That's great info - just what we needed and more or less the same route as we are contemplating. Although our NB Icon (6 speed and LSD) is still great fun and we have a hardtop if needed, it's probably only worth 2 balloons and a windmill on a stick, being 21 years old, so we could throw some money at it and enjoy it for a few more years, or splash out 8 or 9 grand on a 10 year old Kendo. We'll have to wait until we can travel from Orkney to view some further South anyway. The Ford engine still troubles me though - I wouldn't expect you to have had any problems though, given the mileage.
Thanks again,
Ian
That's great info - just what we needed and more or less the same route as we are contemplating. Although our NB Icon (6 speed and LSD) is still great fun and we have a hardtop if needed, it's probably only worth 2 balloons and a windmill on a stick, being 21 years old, so we could throw some money at it and enjoy it for a few more years, or splash out 8 or 9 grand on a 10 year old Kendo. We'll have to wait until we can travel from Orkney to view some further South anyway. The Ford engine still troubles me though - I wouldn't expect you to have had any problems though, given the mileage.
Thanks again,
Ian
Edited by Orcadian on Saturday 10th April 18:36
It isn't a Ford engine, it's a Mazda engine.
General and usual problems, what to look out for here: http://www.duratecnc.co.uk/?p=52
General and usual problems, what to look out for here: http://www.duratecnc.co.uk/?p=52
That's a great link, which I hadn't come across before. I knew that Mazda and Ford have had connections for years and although not really a Ford fan, I'm not completely against them either. I know from past experience that that engine has been problematical for both companies and perceived wisdom says to walk away from a car for sale with low oil level. More unscrupulous vendors would top the oil up before selling unless they were completely stupid.
I knew about some of the rust areas (we have an NB after all) - but that link is very thorough. I will, of course get down and dirty with any possible purchase - preferably on a lift as I get older!
Almost all other problems on any car we get are not insurmountable - brakes, suspension, electrics and the like but I'm too old now to bother welding in patches upside down or pulling an engine down for a full rebuild - we want something we can improve cosmetically and enjoy.
Ian
I knew about some of the rust areas (we have an NB after all) - but that link is very thorough. I will, of course get down and dirty with any possible purchase - preferably on a lift as I get older!
Almost all other problems on any car we get are not insurmountable - brakes, suspension, electrics and the like but I'm too old now to bother welding in patches upside down or pulling an engine down for a full rebuild - we want something we can improve cosmetically and enjoy.
Ian
Ian,
From memory it was the earlier NCs that had issues with oil starvation. I think they were updated in 2009 and later ones were less susceptible. Not sure whether it’s an issue for you but kendo is a 5 speed box, although still as sharp as the 5 we had in the Arctic. I think that corrosion is a far bigger issue than engine/ drive train problems.
From memory it was the earlier NCs that had issues with oil starvation. I think they were updated in 2009 and later ones were less susceptible. Not sure whether it’s an issue for you but kendo is a 5 speed box, although still as sharp as the 5 we had in the Arctic. I think that corrosion is a far bigger issue than engine/ drive train problems.
Hello again and thanks for the reply,
The 5 speed in the Kendo wouldn't be an issue, we have a 6 speeder in the NB as I said and also one in our everyday Jazz with a 1.3 engine - a bit pointless really but perhaps more necessary with such a narrow power band (power, what power?)
As you rightly say, corrosion is the real issue and I would rather see one 'as is' with a few places with a little surface rust, than one which has recently been daubed with hastily applied gloop to hide what was there.
Probably a long shot to find such a beast. We quite like gradually improving cars and bikes over time - as we have with the NB - not to make trailer queens that you are scared to use though.
Ian
The 5 speed in the Kendo wouldn't be an issue, we have a 6 speeder in the NB as I said and also one in our everyday Jazz with a 1.3 engine - a bit pointless really but perhaps more necessary with such a narrow power band (power, what power?)
As you rightly say, corrosion is the real issue and I would rather see one 'as is' with a few places with a little surface rust, than one which has recently been daubed with hastily applied gloop to hide what was there.
Probably a long shot to find such a beast. We quite like gradually improving cars and bikes over time - as we have with the NB - not to make trailer queens that you are scared to use though.
Ian
FATCO said:
Ian,
From memory it was the earlier NCs that had issues with oil starvation. I think they were updated in 2009 and later ones were less susceptible. Not sure whether it’s an issue for you but kendo is a 5 speed box, although still as sharp as the 5 we had in the Arctic. I think that corrosion is a far bigger issue than engine/ drive train problems.
This is mostly all incorrect. Instead of saying 'I think' or 'from memory' read the links provided and fill your head with factual information.From memory it was the earlier NCs that had issues with oil starvation. I think they were updated in 2009 and later ones were less susceptible. Not sure whether it’s an issue for you but kendo is a 5 speed box, although still as sharp as the 5 we had in the Arctic. I think that corrosion is a far bigger issue than engine/ drive train problems.
All MZR/Duratec engines can suffer from sticking oil control rings, it doesn't matter which size or model.
You can see corrosion, you will not know at what stage the piston rings are at and an engine re-build is more expensive than some underbody rust to cure.
Edited by Evoluzione on Sunday 11th April 19:33
Evoluzione said:
You can see corrosion, you will not know at what stage the piston rings are at and an engine re-build is more expensive than some underbody rust to cure.
Having read your excellent link to your web site, perhaps I missed something, how would I ever know at what stage the rings were at without a leak down test? Like you would perform on a Nikasil AJ V8 Jag/Daimler engine (yes, I've had a few of those)Not sure many vendors would do that for me - might have to stick with the NB!
Ian
Orcadian said:
Evoluzione said:
You can see corrosion, you will not know at what stage the piston rings are at and an engine re-build is more expensive than some underbody rust to cure.
Having read your excellent link to your web site, perhaps I missed something, how would I ever know at what stage the rings were at without a leak down test? Like you would perform on a Nikasil AJ V8 Jag/Daimler engine (yes, I've had a few of those)Not sure many vendors would do that for me - might have to stick with the NB!
Ian
One of the first issues is it isn't binary, it's a very gradual process. As pointed out above a good start is to check the oil level to begin with, if it's halfway down the stick then you have to ask why?
A leak down or compression test won't show anything as the second and top rings are the ones which handle that side of things and they are fine.
I don't think an emissions test will show much either, although I've never tried it.
It is a bit of a lottery i'm afraid and all you can do really is ask the vendor and hope he's honest about it or buy a low mileage example and look after it.
Thanks again,
Yes, I thought about the leakdown test afterwards - I was thinking about all rings but if it's only oil control rings, then that's not going to work.
It's starting to look like much of a lottery - and I'm now not sure about buying a ticket! There is one for sale at £9.5k with a mileage under 40k but even that would provide no guarantee - even with main dealer service history.
Ian
Yes, I thought about the leakdown test afterwards - I was thinking about all rings but if it's only oil control rings, then that's not going to work.
It's starting to look like much of a lottery - and I'm now not sure about buying a ticket! There is one for sale at £9.5k with a mileage under 40k but even that would provide no guarantee - even with main dealer service history.
Ian
Personally I would be wary of it, but it wouldn't stop me buying.
One way is check out your rights with taking a car back which is faulty and getting a refund, it's not my thing at all, but there has been plenty written about it on here, I think there are even pinned posts about it.
If you do have rights (private sale or dealer?) then buy it and put some mileage on it quite quickly whilst carefully and accurately monitoring the oil level.
I would say the odds are in your favour at that mileage, if you were looking at a non enthusiast owned 120k miles car then you would be advised to buy shares in Castrol.
The worst i've ever seen was a sub 57k '09 1.8 and it was chronically bad, the guy said he thought the previous owner had never taken it out of the town where he lived (I don't know how he knew this). It looked like it had never had an oil change too, pics here:
https://www.facebook.com/Mazda.MX5.MK3.NC.MZR.Dura...
It's a real shame they messed up with that little detail because it really is a gem of an engine, if it wasn't for that and when they are looked after well they will do some high mileages and when you take them apart they are barely worn.
One way is check out your rights with taking a car back which is faulty and getting a refund, it's not my thing at all, but there has been plenty written about it on here, I think there are even pinned posts about it.
If you do have rights (private sale or dealer?) then buy it and put some mileage on it quite quickly whilst carefully and accurately monitoring the oil level.
I would say the odds are in your favour at that mileage, if you were looking at a non enthusiast owned 120k miles car then you would be advised to buy shares in Castrol.
The worst i've ever seen was a sub 57k '09 1.8 and it was chronically bad, the guy said he thought the previous owner had never taken it out of the town where he lived (I don't know how he knew this). It looked like it had never had an oil change too, pics here:
https://www.facebook.com/Mazda.MX5.MK3.NC.MZR.Dura...
It's a real shame they messed up with that little detail because it really is a gem of an engine, if it wasn't for that and when they are looked after well they will do some high mileages and when you take them apart they are barely worn.
Hello again,
Thanks again for taking time to reply - I realise you are also trying to work, which I gave up years ago - tried it for 40 years but never really took to it!
Anyway, this one is from a reputable dealer (who you probably know) but even he can't be expected to know how it's been treated over 10 years and I'm not easy about exercising my so called rights - life's too short to fall out with folk.
Taking a car for long mileages is no no at the moment - we are still more or less locked down here so it might have to wait a while.
If the worst came to pass, what would be a ball park figure for a re-worked but standard spec 2litre unit fitted by you? If you would rather not answer that on a public forum you can contact me through the system.
Ian
Thanks again for taking time to reply - I realise you are also trying to work, which I gave up years ago - tried it for 40 years but never really took to it!
Anyway, this one is from a reputable dealer (who you probably know) but even he can't be expected to know how it's been treated over 10 years and I'm not easy about exercising my so called rights - life's too short to fall out with folk.
Taking a car for long mileages is no no at the moment - we are still more or less locked down here so it might have to wait a while.
If the worst came to pass, what would be a ball park figure for a re-worked but standard spec 2litre unit fitted by you? If you would rather not answer that on a public forum you can contact me through the system.
Ian
Hi,
Thanks, I had a look at your car when you sent the link - certainly a very desirable car for very little money, considering what you have put into it. It's scary to note that your car was a candidate for an engine rebuild at such a low mileage - or perhaps it was 'because I can!'
However, we specifically want PRHT and light leather - the latter could be changed but the roof, not worth the effort and expense, even if the shells are the same.
We'll keep searching - especially now that we will very soon be able to travel.
Thanks again
Ian
Thanks, I had a look at your car when you sent the link - certainly a very desirable car for very little money, considering what you have put into it. It's scary to note that your car was a candidate for an engine rebuild at such a low mileage - or perhaps it was 'because I can!'
However, we specifically want PRHT and light leather - the latter could be changed but the roof, not worth the effort and expense, even if the shells are the same.
We'll keep searching - especially now that we will very soon be able to travel.
Thanks again
Ian
Orcadian said:
Hi,
Thanks, I had a look at your car when you sent the link - certainly a very desirable car for very little money, considering what you have put into it. It's scary to note that your car was a candidate for an engine rebuild at such a low mileage - or perhaps it was 'because I can!'
However, we specifically want PRHT and light leather - the latter could be changed but the roof, not worth the effort and expense, even if the shells are the same.
We'll keep searching - especially now that we will very soon be able to travel.
Thanks again
Ian
My own personal car is the Sportech, that hasn't had an engine build, all the others for sale have though.Thanks, I had a look at your car when you sent the link - certainly a very desirable car for very little money, considering what you have put into it. It's scary to note that your car was a candidate for an engine rebuild at such a low mileage - or perhaps it was 'because I can!'
However, we specifically want PRHT and light leather - the latter could be changed but the roof, not worth the effort and expense, even if the shells are the same.
We'll keep searching - especially now that we will very soon be able to travel.
Thanks again
Ian
Good luck with the search, it's not like they're rare so you'll get what you want eventually
Apologies for mixing up posts from two different sources - I was convinced that I had read about rods and pistons and assumed (wrongly) that it was yours that had been re-worked - sorry!
One crumb of comfort that I hope I've discovered from re-reading more carefully, your very thorough post and this is the important bit:
"As you may know these later models have an improved engine map (more low down torque and no flat spot), improved engine internals (pistons, forged rods and crank, stronger valve springs) meaning it doesn’t suffer from the oil problems of the earlier models and revs 500 rpm higher."
As the 2 Litre Kendo was only produced in 2011, does this mean it too has the 'improved' engine, or was that just for the Sport?
Ian
One crumb of comfort that I hope I've discovered from re-reading more carefully, your very thorough post and this is the important bit:
"As you may know these later models have an improved engine map (more low down torque and no flat spot), improved engine internals (pistons, forged rods and crank, stronger valve springs) meaning it doesn’t suffer from the oil problems of the earlier models and revs 500 rpm higher."
As the 2 Litre Kendo was only produced in 2011, does this mean it too has the 'improved' engine, or was that just for the Sport?
Ian
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