Headlights, yes the same old questions but with a twist
Discussion
The problem with the internet, and not having my car at home, is I'm daydreaming about the next 'improvement'
I have a MK1 Chimaera and have bought some MK3 light pods, but not the headlights. In an ideal world I would love a pair of Raven S headlights from 9Eleven
https://9elevenheadlights.com/product/raven-s-chro...
I like the clean and simple design and the built in turn signal, especially how it only illuminates the bottom half of the headlight cowl.
I'm thinking of a number of options for the headlights, all are LED based and the first is very much informed by this month Sprint magazine.
The options;
1 - A cheap 7" sealed unit similar to this
up to £50),
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2PCS-7-Inch-Hi-Lo-HALO-...
2 - Morimoto sealed 7" £280 + shipping
https://www.morimotohid.com/morimoto-7in-sealed7-2...
3 - Morimoto super 7" £430 plus shipping
https://www.morimotohid.com/morimoto-super-7-7in-h...
Fully customisable, the shroud can be sprayed to blend in or stand out. This kit plus a halo (turn signal)
4 - Morimoto Bi-LED 2.0 plus shroud plus halo plus black halo sleeve £250 plus shipping
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/bi-led-morimoto-...
Would require something making to act as a light 'bowl' doesn't need to be reflective. I think this gives the cleanest look.
Has anyone gone down the project route with MK3 cowls and what do the masses think??
I have a MK1 Chimaera and have bought some MK3 light pods, but not the headlights. In an ideal world I would love a pair of Raven S headlights from 9Eleven
https://9elevenheadlights.com/product/raven-s-chro...
I like the clean and simple design and the built in turn signal, especially how it only illuminates the bottom half of the headlight cowl.
I'm thinking of a number of options for the headlights, all are LED based and the first is very much informed by this month Sprint magazine.
The options;
1 - A cheap 7" sealed unit similar to this
up to £50),https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2PCS-7-Inch-Hi-Lo-HALO-...
2 - Morimoto sealed 7" £280 + shipping
https://www.morimotohid.com/morimoto-7in-sealed7-2...
3 - Morimoto super 7" £430 plus shipping
https://www.morimotohid.com/morimoto-super-7-7in-h...
Fully customisable, the shroud can be sprayed to blend in or stand out. This kit plus a halo (turn signal)
4 - Morimoto Bi-LED 2.0 plus shroud plus halo plus black halo sleeve £250 plus shipping
https://www.theretrofitsource.com/bi-led-morimoto-...
Would require something making to act as a light 'bowl' doesn't need to be reflective. I think this gives the cleanest look.
Has anyone gone down the project route with MK3 cowls and what do the masses think??
It's worth watching this video, a lot of these headlamp units have very poor beam pattern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFLmu2MfTg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFLmu2MfTg
Have you seen this months Sprint magazine?
A pair very similar to your option 1 are featured (on an S if I recall correctly, not got it to hand?) - so you can see how they look on our curved TVR lines...
Definitely a departure from OE, worth taking a look if you haven't seen it yet, to see if the mix of styling works for you...
Dom
A pair very similar to your option 1 are featured (on an S if I recall correctly, not got it to hand?) - so you can see how they look on our curved TVR lines...
Definitely a departure from OE, worth taking a look if you haven't seen it yet, to see if the mix of styling works for you...
Dom
That just means that you can't stick a non halogen bulb in a halogen headlight, you could never really do that anyway because it would fail on the beam pattern. It's just an automatic fail now without looking at the beam pattern, that's all that has changed.
You can still convert your headlights to non halogen, it's only the same as doing a Tuscan conversion, just that you're doing it behind a MK3 cowling.
Just as an afterthought, if you're looking for a headlight that has indicators in it try searching for motorcycle ones.
You can still convert your headlights to non halogen, it's only the same as doing a Tuscan conversion, just that you're doing it behind a MK3 cowling.
Just as an afterthought, if you're looking for a headlight that has indicators in it try searching for motorcycle ones.
Edited by s p a c e m a n on Monday 15th March 17:55
Got Truck-Lite 7" in my Mk3 pods - being reflector lights they don't stick out as much as the more Daleklike versions...
Whatever you do, make sure your new lights have E-markings on the unit/glass (loads out there just have 'ECE' on the package, which just means they may be sold in the EU, not that they're legal to use on a roadgoing vehicle...)
Whatever you do, make sure your new lights have E-markings on the unit/glass (loads out there just have 'ECE' on the package, which just means they may be sold in the EU, not that they're legal to use on a roadgoing vehicle...)
As the OP titled this, same old question, though it's clearly a moving feast with the legislation.
TLDR? I'm asking if anyone has found lights that are both legal and decent but don't cost £500 for a pair?
ETA: I have a Mk1 '95 nose, and I don't want to do the fared in headlights or any glassing adaptations, just keep the original body shape.
I took a punt at putting some quality LED bulbs into the refurbished original reflectors to see how they would work (knowing that it isn't MOT legal), and a couple of things became clear. The beam pattern is patchy on dip, main beam is too centrally focussed without much width. Another nuance is that the previous owner who did the refurb had rotated the O/S reflector which I can only assume is to direct the kick-up with halogen bulbs to the left side of centre. He had got the lights in good shape for halogens, but with LED bulbs in, I'm illuminating the sky on one side.
Anyway, I will now be putting the halogen bulbs back in until I have found a solution, and realistically if it's LED, it will be sealed units.
There seem to be very few UK spec 7" round LED units around. They are mostly USA Jeep lights, DOT certified (though the restrictions are less restrictive that European standards), and if they carry an E Mark, it is E9, which is for Spain. Also, those are both countries that drive on the other side of the road. The kick-up is either marginal or non-existent (flat).
The other ones that are readily available are motorbike lights, which have a flat cut-off, or a symmetrical pattern which makes sense for a bike with one light. These are offered as a pair, and the flat cut-off probably qualifies them to be used this way, but I can't help feeling like it's not quite right.
I saw some LED units on a nicely refurbed old Range Rover on the school run, took a photo though they're not my preferred design. I discovered them to be Hella units, but can only locate them on Hella's New Zealand website. These do bear the right E Mark, for the UK is E11.
Also dug around on the E Mark, which bears a deeper layer. I've summarised what I have found, though of course do your own research:
E Mark: E11 is for the UK : the 'E' needs to be a capital letter, as there is also a lowercase version for agricultural vehicles.
ECE R149 : this is to do with what type of light it is, R149 is an updated combination of the now removed R112 and R113 which are about dip beam and high beam, though we will see R112 and R113 in outgoing stock I'm sure.
There is another consideration around radio interference, which is to do with the transformer operating outside its normal levels (in this case I suspect much lower) but there are low cost solutions to that, a simple additional small loom that you put between the vehicle wiring and the lamp.
So I'm not butting up against a lack of clarity in the market, as eBay, Amazon and Google are littered with options but it's really murky.
Favourites so far are a compromise in some way:
Good reviews, available in silver, someone answered me to say he'd put them on his UK Jeep recently and they're good and passed MOT, just had to add and anti-flicker module (but they're around a tenner):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07TZF2YL8?ref_=cm_sw_...
Nice OEM-ish pattern in the reflector, but black:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uni-light-Headlight-Appro...
These were cited in a 2016 post on here, same photo, UK business still selling them, and has been open with communications about them being suitable for UK use:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163638011700
Has anyone found any other good options that are good for UK and don't cost a ton?
TLDR? I'm asking if anyone has found lights that are both legal and decent but don't cost £500 for a pair?
ETA: I have a Mk1 '95 nose, and I don't want to do the fared in headlights or any glassing adaptations, just keep the original body shape.
I took a punt at putting some quality LED bulbs into the refurbished original reflectors to see how they would work (knowing that it isn't MOT legal), and a couple of things became clear. The beam pattern is patchy on dip, main beam is too centrally focussed without much width. Another nuance is that the previous owner who did the refurb had rotated the O/S reflector which I can only assume is to direct the kick-up with halogen bulbs to the left side of centre. He had got the lights in good shape for halogens, but with LED bulbs in, I'm illuminating the sky on one side.
Anyway, I will now be putting the halogen bulbs back in until I have found a solution, and realistically if it's LED, it will be sealed units.
There seem to be very few UK spec 7" round LED units around. They are mostly USA Jeep lights, DOT certified (though the restrictions are less restrictive that European standards), and if they carry an E Mark, it is E9, which is for Spain. Also, those are both countries that drive on the other side of the road. The kick-up is either marginal or non-existent (flat).
The other ones that are readily available are motorbike lights, which have a flat cut-off, or a symmetrical pattern which makes sense for a bike with one light. These are offered as a pair, and the flat cut-off probably qualifies them to be used this way, but I can't help feeling like it's not quite right.
I saw some LED units on a nicely refurbed old Range Rover on the school run, took a photo though they're not my preferred design. I discovered them to be Hella units, but can only locate them on Hella's New Zealand website. These do bear the right E Mark, for the UK is E11.
Also dug around on the E Mark, which bears a deeper layer. I've summarised what I have found, though of course do your own research:
E Mark: E11 is for the UK : the 'E' needs to be a capital letter, as there is also a lowercase version for agricultural vehicles.
ECE R149 : this is to do with what type of light it is, R149 is an updated combination of the now removed R112 and R113 which are about dip beam and high beam, though we will see R112 and R113 in outgoing stock I'm sure.
There is another consideration around radio interference, which is to do with the transformer operating outside its normal levels (in this case I suspect much lower) but there are low cost solutions to that, a simple additional small loom that you put between the vehicle wiring and the lamp.
So I'm not butting up against a lack of clarity in the market, as eBay, Amazon and Google are littered with options but it's really murky.
Favourites so far are a compromise in some way:
Good reviews, available in silver, someone answered me to say he'd put them on his UK Jeep recently and they're good and passed MOT, just had to add and anti-flicker module (but they're around a tenner):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07TZF2YL8?ref_=cm_sw_...
Nice OEM-ish pattern in the reflector, but black:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uni-light-Headlight-Appro...
These were cited in a 2016 post on here, same photo, UK business still selling them, and has been open with communications about them being suitable for UK use:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163638011700
Has anyone found any other good options that are good for UK and don't cost a ton?
Also just read this interesting point on a Mini forum. Maybe LEDs are a bad idea, but I can't help feeling that if you can't beat them, join 'em?
"A LOT of bright lights (leds) are not good. Yes they make us feel that there is more light, but beyond the lit up area it becomes very dark /black. The problem with more bright light close to the front of the car, the smaller our pupils are and the area further down the road becomes black. With a conventional light your see farther down the road as your pupils are more open and you can see farther. This is why fog lamps should not be used at night went there is no fog. Your eye are pulled down close to the front of the car and you pupils close up. You might actually hit something the moment you see it."
"A LOT of bright lights (leds) are not good. Yes they make us feel that there is more light, but beyond the lit up area it becomes very dark /black. The problem with more bright light close to the front of the car, the smaller our pupils are and the area further down the road becomes black. With a conventional light your see farther down the road as your pupils are more open and you can see farther. This is why fog lamps should not be used at night went there is no fog. Your eye are pulled down close to the front of the car and you pupils close up. You might actually hit something the moment you see it."
PabloGee said:
As the OP titled this, same old question, though it's clearly a moving feast with the legislation.
TLDR? I'm asking if anyone has found lights that are both legal and decent but don't cost £500 for a pair?
ETA: I have a Mk1 '95 nose, and I don't want to do the fared in headlights or any glassing adaptations, just keep the original body shape.
I took a punt at putting some quality LED bulbs into the refurbished original reflectors to see how they would work (knowing that it isn't MOT legal), and a couple of things became clear. The beam pattern is patchy on dip, main beam is too centrally focussed without much width. Another nuance is that the previous owner who did the refurb had rotated the O/S reflector which I can only assume is to direct the kick-up with halogen bulbs to the left side of centre. He had got the lights in good shape for halogens, but with LED bulbs in, I'm illuminating the sky on one side.
Anyway, I will now be putting the halogen bulbs back in until I have found a solution, and realistically if it's LED, it will be sealed units.
There seem to be very few UK spec 7" round LED units around. They are mostly USA Jeep lights, DOT certified (though the restrictions are less restrictive that European standards), and if they carry an E Mark, it is E9, which is for Spain. Also, those are both countries that drive on the other side of the road. The kick-up is either marginal or non-existent (flat).
The other ones that are readily available are motorbike lights, which have a flat cut-off, or a symmetrical pattern which makes sense for a bike with one light. These are offered as a pair, and the flat cut-off probably qualifies them to be used this way, but I can't help feeling like it's not quite right.
I saw some LED units on a nicely refurbed old Range Rover on the school run, took a photo though they're not my preferred design. I discovered them to be Hella units, but can only locate them on Hella's New Zealand website. These do bear the right E Mark, for the UK is E11.
Also dug around on the E Mark, which bears a deeper layer. I've summarised what I have found, though of course do your own research:
E Mark: E11 is for the UK : the 'E' needs to be a capital letter, as there is also a lowercase version for agricultural vehicles.
ECE R149 : this is to do with what type of light it is, R149 is an updated combination of the now removed R112 and R113 which are about dip beam and high beam, though we will see R112 and R113 in outgoing stock I'm sure.
There is another consideration around radio interference, which is to do with the transformer operating outside its normal levels (in this case I suspect much lower) but there are low cost solutions to that, a simple additional small loom that you put between the vehicle wiring and the lamp.
So I'm not butting up against a lack of clarity in the market, as eBay, Amazon and Google are littered with options but it's really murky.
Favourites so far are a compromise in some way:
Good reviews, available in silver, someone answered me to say he'd put them on his UK Jeep recently and they're good and passed MOT, just had to add and anti-flicker module (but they're around a tenner):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07TZF2YL8?ref_=cm_sw_...
Nice OEM-ish pattern in the reflector, but black:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uni-light-Headlight-Appro...
These were cited in a 2016 post on here, same photo, UK business still selling them, and has been open with communications about them being suitable for UK use:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163638011700
Has anyone found any other good options that are good for UK and don't cost a ton?
Those lamps are directed beam units, if you fit them you won't be able to fit the original glass lens over the top. That would redirect the light beam twice. If you can find a clear cover to replace the original or convert to Mk3 lens free headlamp covers then they could be usedTLDR? I'm asking if anyone has found lights that are both legal and decent but don't cost £500 for a pair?
ETA: I have a Mk1 '95 nose, and I don't want to do the fared in headlights or any glassing adaptations, just keep the original body shape.
I took a punt at putting some quality LED bulbs into the refurbished original reflectors to see how they would work (knowing that it isn't MOT legal), and a couple of things became clear. The beam pattern is patchy on dip, main beam is too centrally focussed without much width. Another nuance is that the previous owner who did the refurb had rotated the O/S reflector which I can only assume is to direct the kick-up with halogen bulbs to the left side of centre. He had got the lights in good shape for halogens, but with LED bulbs in, I'm illuminating the sky on one side.
Anyway, I will now be putting the halogen bulbs back in until I have found a solution, and realistically if it's LED, it will be sealed units.
There seem to be very few UK spec 7" round LED units around. They are mostly USA Jeep lights, DOT certified (though the restrictions are less restrictive that European standards), and if they carry an E Mark, it is E9, which is for Spain. Also, those are both countries that drive on the other side of the road. The kick-up is either marginal or non-existent (flat).
The other ones that are readily available are motorbike lights, which have a flat cut-off, or a symmetrical pattern which makes sense for a bike with one light. These are offered as a pair, and the flat cut-off probably qualifies them to be used this way, but I can't help feeling like it's not quite right.
I saw some LED units on a nicely refurbed old Range Rover on the school run, took a photo though they're not my preferred design. I discovered them to be Hella units, but can only locate them on Hella's New Zealand website. These do bear the right E Mark, for the UK is E11.
Also dug around on the E Mark, which bears a deeper layer. I've summarised what I have found, though of course do your own research:
E Mark: E11 is for the UK : the 'E' needs to be a capital letter, as there is also a lowercase version for agricultural vehicles.
ECE R149 : this is to do with what type of light it is, R149 is an updated combination of the now removed R112 and R113 which are about dip beam and high beam, though we will see R112 and R113 in outgoing stock I'm sure.
There is another consideration around radio interference, which is to do with the transformer operating outside its normal levels (in this case I suspect much lower) but there are low cost solutions to that, a simple additional small loom that you put between the vehicle wiring and the lamp.
So I'm not butting up against a lack of clarity in the market, as eBay, Amazon and Google are littered with options but it's really murky.
Favourites so far are a compromise in some way:
Good reviews, available in silver, someone answered me to say he'd put them on his UK Jeep recently and they're good and passed MOT, just had to add and anti-flicker module (but they're around a tenner):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07TZF2YL8?ref_=cm_sw_...
Nice OEM-ish pattern in the reflector, but black:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uni-light-Headlight-Appro...
These were cited in a 2016 post on here, same photo, UK business still selling them, and has been open with communications about them being suitable for UK use:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163638011700
Has anyone found any other good options that are good for UK and don't cost a ton?
Has anyone done this recently? Our lights are pitiful as I found out for the first time on Sunday night (I think even my first car - an MG Midget had better lights). I also think the lights are so much prettier, faired in, a la Mk3.
I dropped my car off at Str8six earlier today and was admiring an early Chim that had the Mk3 conversion on it's lights. Obviously this had different lenses too..... but I am now researching the options.
I dropped my car off at Str8six earlier today and was admiring an early Chim that had the Mk3 conversion on it's lights. Obviously this had different lenses too..... but I am now researching the options.
Did you ask the helpful chaps at Str8six for their point of view?
I was thinking of calling them.
The legislation was only updated around 3 months ago, so it might need time to settle.
In the meantime I have just ordered a pair of Philips RacingVision GT200 H4 from Powerbulbs for £20, as they have been well reviewed within their category of halogens, and will continue to dig and research.
I was thinking of calling them.
The legislation was only updated around 3 months ago, so it might need time to settle.
In the meantime I have just ordered a pair of Philips RacingVision GT200 H4 from Powerbulbs for £20, as they have been well reviewed within their category of halogens, and will continue to dig and research.
PabloGee said:
Do you need to fit the original glass over the top?
Don't these unit replace the entire assembly (though need a bezel)?
The original glass lens sits at an angle so that it can rest on the inside of the cowl. If you fit these like that the beam will point way too far upwardsDon't these unit replace the entire assembly (though need a bezel)?
As the OP and update....
MK3 headlights with Morimoto Bi-Leds l, pivot DRL/turn signals and a custom shroud to bridge the gap between the lights and the 7" cowl. I can confirm they are superb. I can see and be seen. But, it's not a cheap way to go.
To this end, I have the bits that were cut out of anyone needs some spares, that's the bit of the body to fit the MK3 plexiglass and the cowls.
MK3 headlights with Morimoto Bi-Leds l, pivot DRL/turn signals and a custom shroud to bridge the gap between the lights and the 7" cowl. I can confirm they are superb. I can see and be seen. But, it's not a cheap way to go.
To this end, I have the bits that were cut out of anyone needs some spares, that's the bit of the body to fit the MK3 plexiglass and the cowls.
bobfather said:
The original glass lens sits at an angle so that it can rest on the inside of the cowl. If you fit these like that the beam will point way too far upwards
Fair point - I haven't looked at it closely enough to assess that detail. I would have discovered it fairly quickly though! Yeesh!ETA: That might be the conclusive blow, and explains the Lupo lights more adeptly.
OP - I saw your car in a different thread or on Facebook I think, looks stunning, I'm just not ready to make that level of investment.
I'm personally not that keen on the Mk3 cover, and if I drop a lump of cash on my car it will probably be a new ECU/ignition kit...
Edited by PabloGee on Tuesday 16th January 16:52
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