The British & Irish Lions
Discussion
Oh dear.... they were hanging on quite well but with no penetration, however I fear the worst in the second half after the Umaga try 
OMG
.... they just penalised Collins for a late challenge, about bloody time!!!!!
>> Edited by foster3jd on Saturday 9th July 09:25
C'mon.... just 12 mins to go, two converted tries and we get back some pride!
>> Edited by foster3jd on Saturday 9th July 09:45
OMG
.... they just penalised Collins for a late challenge, about bloody time!!!!! >> Edited by foster3jd on Saturday 9th July 09:25
C'mon.... just 12 mins to go, two converted tries and we get back some pride!
>> Edited by foster3jd on Saturday 9th July 09:45
Forwards who think they are centres.
Pedestrian, obvious, unimaginative backs.
Backs who cannot make a first up tackle.
I think we are doing pretty well considering.........
ps, why do Wilkinson/Jones kick the restarts so deep ?
Basic, basic deficiencies in so-called professional players.
Pedestrian, obvious, unimaginative backs.
Backs who cannot make a first up tackle.
I think we are doing pretty well considering.........
ps, why do Wilkinson/Jones kick the restarts so deep ?
Basic, basic deficiencies in so-called professional players.
Lions played well but the Kiwis are just so much better!!! quicker, more alert, mbetter positioning etc..... the Lions looked jaded in comparison although they played to the best of their abilities. Probably because it's the end of season for nortehr hemisphere and the Kiwis are just starting?
To be fair, they showed a lot of character and some of the players individually had pretty good games, but they were too static going forward, lacked co-ordination and had no answer to the NZ defence.
Nice to see the officials finally evening things up a bit... just a shame that they didn't pick up on things from the off in the first test!
Nice to see the officials finally evening things up a bit... just a shame that they didn't pick up on things from the off in the first test!
Mmm, I thought the lions were pretty pathetic as a whole actually.
A couple of players had OK games in difficult circumstances, but the Lions were completely outplayed by a far better side. As for showing grit and determination, I'd have to say that 'they played a match for 80 mins' - no more, no less. I wouldn't expect them to do anything other than play as hard as they could for the whole 80. What does everybody expect? Nothing made me sit up and think - jeez, these guys are fighting a lost cause and showing real mettle here- good on them! They were passengers in the game, waiting for the final whistle to put them out of their misery.
I thought there was very little pride actually. Have never seen so many missed tackles - Stephen Jones anyone? 2 missed tackles (both very weak, U9's type efforts from a highly paid professional player - go on, stick an arm out and slap him - it's bound to put the guy on his *rse), resulting in 2 tries from Umaga. Murphy made a completely inept challenge that led directly to a try too.
I know club players over here who would have been more effective than those 2, and I would have tried a hell of a lot harder to take him down. Clearly, I wouldn't have been able to, but what's all this about 'putting your body on the line for the team', 'take one for the team' etc etc - I've been hearing that since I was a nipper, and it didn't look as though some of the Lions players really wanted to be there.
As my (ex-Int'l) father said, "half of them were already thinking about their holiday". I have to agree.
The whole tour was massively disappointing. Not sure what the cause was. Woody was the obvious choice for coach, he assembled an OK squad, and some decent coaches - agree with his 45-strong team of backroom staff. You need every posisble advantage you can get to beat people at this level.
Reasons for us losing?
* Woodward made some questionable team selections / tactics.
* Lions missed Dallaglio, Grewcock, Johnson and some other thugs up front, O'Driscoll would have added something (anything!) to the appalling back line, and Wilkinson wasn't on top form.
* Unbelievably cr*p defence throughout the whole tour. Tackling in the backs clearly wasn't part of their match strategy.
* Er...the All Blacks were a far better team at all times, and in all areas of the pitch. I think Lewsey and some of the front row would be the only Lions players to get into the All Black squad, but probably not the 1st team.
We can whinge as much as we want - I think we lost to a brilliant team who should cream the Tri-Nations. All the other factors just compound the misery, and made the Lions' job harder.
Well played the All Blacks. Victory was thoroughly deserved. Thank God it wasn't really dry and perfect running rugby conditions. Just imagine how many poiints they would have put on us...
A couple of players had OK games in difficult circumstances, but the Lions were completely outplayed by a far better side. As for showing grit and determination, I'd have to say that 'they played a match for 80 mins' - no more, no less. I wouldn't expect them to do anything other than play as hard as they could for the whole 80. What does everybody expect? Nothing made me sit up and think - jeez, these guys are fighting a lost cause and showing real mettle here- good on them! They were passengers in the game, waiting for the final whistle to put them out of their misery.
I thought there was very little pride actually. Have never seen so many missed tackles - Stephen Jones anyone? 2 missed tackles (both very weak, U9's type efforts from a highly paid professional player - go on, stick an arm out and slap him - it's bound to put the guy on his *rse), resulting in 2 tries from Umaga. Murphy made a completely inept challenge that led directly to a try too.
I know club players over here who would have been more effective than those 2, and I would have tried a hell of a lot harder to take him down. Clearly, I wouldn't have been able to, but what's all this about 'putting your body on the line for the team', 'take one for the team' etc etc - I've been hearing that since I was a nipper, and it didn't look as though some of the Lions players really wanted to be there.
As my (ex-Int'l) father said, "half of them were already thinking about their holiday". I have to agree.
The whole tour was massively disappointing. Not sure what the cause was. Woody was the obvious choice for coach, he assembled an OK squad, and some decent coaches - agree with his 45-strong team of backroom staff. You need every posisble advantage you can get to beat people at this level.
Reasons for us losing?
* Woodward made some questionable team selections / tactics.
* Lions missed Dallaglio, Grewcock, Johnson and some other thugs up front, O'Driscoll would have added something (anything!) to the appalling back line, and Wilkinson wasn't on top form.
* Unbelievably cr*p defence throughout the whole tour. Tackling in the backs clearly wasn't part of their match strategy.
* Er...the All Blacks were a far better team at all times, and in all areas of the pitch. I think Lewsey and some of the front row would be the only Lions players to get into the All Black squad, but probably not the 1st team.
We can whinge as much as we want - I think we lost to a brilliant team who should cream the Tri-Nations. All the other factors just compound the misery, and made the Lions' job harder.
Well played the All Blacks. Victory was thoroughly deserved. Thank God it wasn't really dry and perfect running rugby conditions. Just imagine how many poiints they would have put on us...
I think the main problem for the Lions was that it was / is effectively a scratch side playing a side that has focused on this tour for the last 18 months. Even playing well the Lions would not have won as you simply can't throw a side together and expect them to compete with a professional international side.
That said there were definate mistakes.
SCW not playing the test side in a few of the early matches meant there was no time to gel the side.
Andy Robinson changing the line out calls on the day of the 1st test!!!! That is madness, apparently Byrne was learning them an hour before the match.
I didn't understand the first test selection, why play people out of position when you apparently have the best people in the squad.
And, finally for a few players this was a tour to far...
I don't actually think on an individual basis the AB players are all better than the Lions players, some are but some are not. There skills are a bit better and they are playing a different type of game.
Josh Lewsey got it right, the ABs are playing like England did 3 years ago and how Wales are playing now - moving the ball very quickly and spreading the play. But S Africa have showed how to defend against them, there needs to be a hard first up defence and the defenders have to go a bit higher and try to attack the ball in the tackle. Its more high risk but it does slow the movement down...
That said there were definate mistakes.
SCW not playing the test side in a few of the early matches meant there was no time to gel the side.
Andy Robinson changing the line out calls on the day of the 1st test!!!! That is madness, apparently Byrne was learning them an hour before the match.
I didn't understand the first test selection, why play people out of position when you apparently have the best people in the squad.
And, finally for a few players this was a tour to far...
I don't actually think on an individual basis the AB players are all better than the Lions players, some are but some are not. There skills are a bit better and they are playing a different type of game.
Josh Lewsey got it right, the ABs are playing like England did 3 years ago and how Wales are playing now - moving the ball very quickly and spreading the play. But S Africa have showed how to defend against them, there needs to be a hard first up defence and the defenders have to go a bit higher and try to attack the ball in the tackle. Its more high risk but it does slow the movement down...
European rugby appears to be going backwards - the back play particularly is disastrous - the AB's now have the side that would have won the 2003 WRC, but it wasn't functioning then and England peaked at the right time, and won it.
From an England perspective, the Churchill Cup was great to watch - Brian Ashton coached the backs, and it really showed in some great, confident free-running play, and lots of offloading out of contact, and the forwards matched up well to Argentina's great scrum. It also showed that there are some European backs who can actually pass teh ball properly!!
Why oh why can they not bring Ashton back into the full England sest up? Andy Robinson is a forwards coach, and there's enough work needed there to keep him fully occupied.
The Lions were shown up in several basic areas -
1) Passsing - poor quality
2) Attitude - no passion, no grit, and little leadership from anyone.
3) Ball retention at the breakdown - appalling
4) Line outs - dreadful
5) Defence - poor quality drift defence which any second rate team could get outside
6) Tackling - pathetic.
7) Team spirit - non-existent - the cornerstone of a succesful Lions team. This squad looked like it needed a big hug from Martin johnson to inject a bit of fire. I never thougt they's miss that one person so much!
They were very unlucky with injuries, and that disrupted a lot of plans. But, back to the drawing board for the Six Nations (Wales excepted - they are playing with confidence, brio and flare)
From an England perspective, the Churchill Cup was great to watch - Brian Ashton coached the backs, and it really showed in some great, confident free-running play, and lots of offloading out of contact, and the forwards matched up well to Argentina's great scrum. It also showed that there are some European backs who can actually pass teh ball properly!!
Why oh why can they not bring Ashton back into the full England sest up? Andy Robinson is a forwards coach, and there's enough work needed there to keep him fully occupied.
The Lions were shown up in several basic areas -
1) Passsing - poor quality
2) Attitude - no passion, no grit, and little leadership from anyone.
3) Ball retention at the breakdown - appalling
4) Line outs - dreadful
5) Defence - poor quality drift defence which any second rate team could get outside
6) Tackling - pathetic.
7) Team spirit - non-existent - the cornerstone of a succesful Lions team. This squad looked like it needed a big hug from Martin johnson to inject a bit of fire. I never thougt they's miss that one person so much!
They were very unlucky with injuries, and that disrupted a lot of plans. But, back to the drawing board for the Six Nations (Wales excepted - they are playing with confidence, brio and flare)
nubbin said:
They were very unlucky with injuries,
B
ks. O'Driscoll was targeted again. Woodward and his selections lost us the Lions in that way. I don't know if another coach could have helped us win, but I honestly believe we would not have lost by that much. The All Blacks are on form that has no equal at the moment.
Bring on the AB's. Lansdown Road, November. You're in our back yard now sonny
up-the-dubs said:
They were very unlucky with injuries,
B
Woodward and his selections lost us the Lions in that way. I don't know if another coach could have helped us win, but I honestly believe we would not have lost by that much. The All Blacks are on form that has no equal at the moment.
Bring on the AB's. Lansdown Road, November. You're in our back yard now sonny
Oh, sure I agree with that
That was only one of several injuries - Dallaglio, Hill were crucial looses that would have possibly made a diference. Woodward was awful, and it is time to realise that his era is past. Don't be offended Dubs, but I don't think BOD was a good choice as captain - he's a truly great player, but doesn't have the fire to ignite others around him - he admits that he likes his playing to do the talking, but that's not enough on Lions tours. They needed a solid, "stand-with-me-boys" type leader, and there wasn't one. Neither was there an effective pack leader, nor a decent enforcer.
It should be another interesting and exciting championship this year though! (Psst...Got any tickets for England-Ireland?
)nubbin said:
(Psst...Got any tickets for England-Ireland?
Is that a taunt???? Do you have some, or are you just fishing?
Don't have any yet, but will be getting on the case for home matches. No point going to Eng-Ire as we'll just hammer you, and you'll all get blousey and use your own ball, and stand on the wrong spot, and then all your best players will be forced into retirement, much like the last time?
running awaaayyyyy......
There was no-one in the Lions team who could influence the way the game was played. The Lions ended up playing the AB's game & there was only going to be one result. The backs looked knackered & the pack played badly. If they should have dominated anywhere it should have been up front but no-one really wanted it.
Aside from their excellent flair in the backs the AB's did what they have always done - got the ball out of the tackle
Aside from their excellent flair in the backs the AB's did what they have always done - got the ball out of the tackle
up-the-dubs said:
(Psst...Got any tickets for England-Ireland?
Is that a taunt???? Do you have some, or are you just fishing?
Don't have any yet, but will be getting on the case for home matches. No point going to Eng-Ire as we'll just hammer you, and you'll all get blousey and use your own ball, and stand on the wrong spot, and then all your best players will be forced into retirement, much like the last time?
running awaaayyyyy......
Not fishing - I haven't been to Dublin for a match for years - I used to go with a mate for the Scotland-Ireland games 'cos it was more fun than England matches - everyone took it too seriously when England were playing!
You never know - there might be some miracle renaissance in English ranks, and we might just stop that elusive Irish Grand Slam dream again, like 2003 when we gave an excellent Irish team a right stuffing!
nubbin said:
You never know - there might be some miracle renaissance in English ranks, and we might just stop that elusive Irish Grand Slam dream again, like 2003 when we gave an excellent Irish team a right stuffing!
Whadda whatnow? Sorry I was dreaming there for a second.
Aw well, back to reality.
Thats my boy
up-the-dubs said:
You never know - there might be some miracle renaissance in English ranks, and we might just stop that elusive Irish Grand Slam dream again, like 2003 when we gave an excellent Irish team a right stuffing!
Thats my boy
Shame you got the quote box wrong:- up-the-dubs said:
Whadda whatnow? Sorry I was dreaming there for a second.
Aw well, back to reality.
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