Hi-fi network streamer

[FazerBoy]

Hi,

I’ve currently got an Audiolab 6000a amplifier and Audiolab 6000 cd player connected to Dali Opticon 6 speakers.

I’m happy with my set-up and now want to add a network streamer. I will sign up to Tidal Hi-Fi so I can stream music at the highest quality and also listen to internet radio.

I haven’t got music stored elsewhere on disc etc and I won’t be adding a turntable in the future.

I’ve been looking at the Naim NDX 2 which I expect will put out amazing sound but perhaps I’m being silly in going for such an expensive streamer when my amplifier is towards the budget end.

Should I be more sensible and go for a streamer like the much cheaper Cambridge Audio CXN v2 or splash out on the Naim and eventually upgrade my amp to match it (ie start building a better system)?

Would the Naim be noticeably better than the CXN v2 played through my 6000a if I don’t upgrade my amp, or would it simply be wasted - both in terms of sound quality and money?

I’m not very knowledgeable in this area so any advice or comments would be appreciated.

Cheers

Jack

[sociopath]

The CA unit gets a good review from Andrew Robinson (recovering audiobile on youtube), review came out this week I think.

If I hadnt bought my Nad c658 (I wanted the Dirac room correction capability) I think the CA would have been on my list.

Another alternative could perhaps be the bluos node2i

ETA you could also look at schiit gear, or some raspberry pi based solutions.if you want to dip a toe in the water.
I'm not sure I'd go the Naim route, but that's just personal antipathy

Edited by sociopath on Wednesday 10th February 22:01

[AndrewGP]

I’d recommend grabbing a brew and watching John Darko’s Back to Basics videos on streamers. Here’s the first in the series, I think there’s 3 parts.

https://youtu.be/E5rGHPYh3E0

He also reviewed the Cambridge CXN V2 very highly, although as ever, nothing anyone says on here is a real substitute for having a proper audition. I’d recommend getting down to somewhere like Audio T (when lockdown ends) and having a listen to the Naim and a BlueSound Node 2i for comparison.

[Miserablegit]

First rule of hifi club is if you want it, buy it.

Before spending that kind of money I would recommend listening to it and the Cambridge. Speak to your local hifi shop and see if they will do a covid-complying in-home demo.

My only concern with digital gear is formats change and there’s another hi-res format around the corner - I presume the Naim is upgradeable but if you aren’t putting it into a top end system now it seems a bit of a waste and risk IMHO. I have no idea about when you are considering upgrading but even if it is two years tech will have moved on for streaming. There will probably be a better £5k option in two years’ time.


The audio lab is quite a good amp- the adjustable digital filter makes a noticeable difference on my m-one and so I’d be tempted to go the raspberry pi route with a toslink output. Enjoy it whatever you choose

[FazerBoy]

Thanks all for your thoughts!

I will try and arrange for a demo, pandemic permitting...

[sociopath]

Richer sounds do 30 day return option

[theboss]

I would have thought it’s quite reasonable to get an extended home dem option - I just bought some Linn gear with the option to return no questions asked within 90 days but it was ex-dem not brand new sealed boxes / factory order. I’m keeping it though!

[ian996]

AndrewGP said:

I’d recommend grabbing a brew and watching John Darko’s Back to Basics videos on streamers. Here’s the first in the series, I think there’s 3 parts.

https://youtu.be/E5rGHPYh3E0

He also reviewed the Cambridge CXN V2 very highly, although as ever, nothing anyone says on here is a real substitute for having a proper audition. I’d recommend getting down to somewhere like Audio T (when lockdown ends) and having a listen to the Naim and a BlueSound Node 2i for comparison.

I have the Bluesound Vault 2, which is similar to the Node (I think!), but has in inbuilt CD burner, so you can burn your CDs onto its internal hard drive. One thing to consider with the Bluesounds is that they have optical and coaxial digital outputs, so you could use the DAC in the Audiolab CD player (which I think has digital inputs). which might sound better than the DAC in the Node itself (I'm surprised how good the Vault sounds through my Wadia DACS, but it's quite disappointing via its internal DAC).

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with it, the only downside for me is that I'd hoped to archive all my CDs onto the Bluesound hard disc, then migrate that to a higher end streamer at some point in the future. Unfortunately, they seem to be stored in a special NAD format, but that wouldn't be an issue if you weren't looking at CD archiving as part of the solution.

Ultimately, as per other replies, if you can take a listen before buying, that's ideal

[toasty]

FWIW I have a Naim Uniti Atom which IMHO is fabulous as an all in one plus speakers (Kef LS50 and REL T5i) running only Tidal and internet radio. The Naim app and connectivity is very good but occasionally requires a reboot.

If you're considering changing the Audiolabs, you might be interested in demoing the Uniti Star which has a CD player as well as the Amp/Streamer.

[TorqueDirty]

AndrewGP said:

I’d recommend grabbing a brew and watching John Darko’s Back to Basics videos on streamers. Here’s the first in the series, I think there’s 3 parts.

https://youtu.be/E5rGHPYh3E0

He also reviewed the Cambridge CXN V2 very highly, although as ever, nothing anyone says on here is a real substitute for having a proper audition. I’d recommend getting down to somewhere like Audio T (when lockdown ends) and having a listen to the Naim and a BlueSound Node 2i for comparison.

I bought a BlueSound Node 2i last year as my first foray in to streaming. It sits alongside my Musical Fidelity A308 CD player and feeds in to a Musical Fidelity A308 pre and power set up which in turn feeds my Kef Reference 205/2 speakers.

The Node 2i is very good, and very convenient - but is not a patch on the CD player sound quality wise.

In retrospect I should have gone for the Cambridge Audio Azure 851N. I have not heard it in person but I'm told (on here) that it really is a big step up.

My plan was to be able to replace the A308 CD player with something that was more convenient (streamer) but still produced the same sound quality. I only got half of that right with the Node 2i. Very good, but not good enough to replace the CD player.

I still use it a lot due to the much greater convenience but I know I'm not hearing the music at its best which takes the shine off it if I am honest.

[tonyg58]

Naim NDX 2 is well overspecified for your system.
I don't know the Cambridge Audio player, so can't comment.
You have a current CD player, are you going to abandon CDs?
IMHO the Innuos players are great and the Zen Mini -

https://www.mackenziehifi.com/innuos-zenmini-mk3-m...

(I've linked to a dealer site as the Innuos website appears to be down).

Will allow you to rip all your discs and also play Tidal and other services and they are all great sounding units.

It's also about the same price as the CA streamer.

Edited by tonyg58 on Thursday 11th February 16:06

[TonyRPH]

Miserablegit said:

<snip>

My only concern with digital gear is formats change and there’s another hi-res format around the corner

<snip>

Another hi-res format around the corner? What will that be then?

[AndrewGP]

TorqueDirty said:

AndrewGP said:

I’d recommend grabbing a brew and watching John Darko’s Back to Basics videos on streamers. Here’s the first in the series, I think there’s 3 parts.

https://youtu.be/E5rGHPYh3E0

He also reviewed the Cambridge CXN V2 very highly, although as ever, nothing anyone says on here is a real substitute for having a proper audition. I’d recommend getting down to somewhere like Audio T (when lockdown ends) and having a listen to the Naim and a BlueSound Node 2i for comparison.

I bought a BlueSound Node 2i last year as my first foray in to streaming. It sits alongside my Musical Fidelity A308 CD player and feeds in to a Musical Fidelity A308 pre and power set up which in turn feeds my Kef Reference 205/2 speakers.

The Node 2i is very good, and very convenient - but is not a patch on the CD player sound quality wise.

In retrospect I should have gone for the Cambridge Audio Azure 851N. I have not heard it in person but I'm told (on here) that it really is a big step up.

My plan was to be able to replace the A308 CD player with something that was more convenient (streamer) but still produced the same sound quality. I only got half of that right with the Node 2i. Very good, but not good enough to replace the CD player.

I still use it a lot due to the much greater convenience but I know I'm not hearing the music at its best which takes the shine off it if I am honest.

I've also got a node 2i and also really like it's convenience, especially with Tidal. Mine has been modded with a new 5v dc circuit board in place of the OEM 240v ac one and is powered by an 5v ultra low noise power supply. To my ears through my Cambridge CXA81 amp and Acoustic Energy AE509s, it was a tangible step up in quality and I think I'd have to spend £1500+ on a streamer to make any upgrade worthwhile. Having just bought the AE509s for £2300, Mrs GP would have my balls lopped off if I even suggested it, so for now I'm content with the system as it is

If you're not happy with the node's sound quality you could also do the same or use it with an external dac. I think it would be interesting to see what you thought of the differences.

(Sorry for the slight thread derailment!)

[TorqueDirty]

AndrewGP said:

TorqueDirty said:

AndrewGP said:

I’d recommend grabbing a brew and watching John Darko’s Back to Basics videos on streamers. Here’s the first in the series, I think there’s 3 parts.

https://youtu.be/E5rGHPYh3E0

He also reviewed the Cambridge CXN V2 very highly, although as ever, nothing anyone says on here is a real substitute for having a proper audition. I’d recommend getting down to somewhere like Audio T (when lockdown ends) and having a listen to the Naim and a BlueSound Node 2i for comparison.

I bought a BlueSound Node 2i last year as my first foray in to streaming. It sits alongside my Musical Fidelity A308 CD player and feeds in to a Musical Fidelity A308 pre and power set up which in turn feeds my Kef Reference 205/2 speakers.

The Node 2i is very good, and very convenient - but is not a patch on the CD player sound quality wise.

In retrospect I should have gone for the Cambridge Audio Azure 851N. I have not heard it in person but I'm told (on here) that it really is a big step up.

My plan was to be able to replace the A308 CD player with something that was more convenient (streamer) but still produced the same sound quality. I only got half of that right with the Node 2i. Very good, but not good enough to replace the CD player.

I still use it a lot due to the much greater convenience but I know I'm not hearing the music at its best which takes the shine off it if I am honest.

I've also got a node 2i and also really like it's convenience, especially with Tidal. Mine has been modded with a new 5v dc circuit board in place of the OEM 240v ac one and is powered by an 5v ultra low noise power supply. To my ears through my Cambridge CXA81 amp and Acoustic Energy AE509s, it was a tangible step up in quality and I think I'd have to spend £1500+ on a streamer to make any upgrade worthwhile. Having just bought the AE509s for £2300, Mrs GP would have my balls lopped off if I even suggested it, so for now I'm content with the system as it is

If you're not happy with the node's sound quality you could also do the same or use it with an external dac. I think it would be interesting to see what you thought of the differences.

(Sorry for the slight thread derailment!)

Just re-read my post and it comes across as a bit harsh on the Node 2i. The sound is actually extremely good, especially for the cost, it is just the a A308 is pretty special.

I did look in to the power supply upgrades but the "balls lopped off" scenarios was also a very real threat so decided against it at the time (the Kef Reference speakers were also a recent purchase)!

[FazerBoy]

tonyg58 said:

Naim NDX 2 is well overspecified for your system.
I don't know the Cambridge Audio player, so can't comment.
You have a current CD player, are you going to abandon CDs?
IMHO the Innuos players are great and the Zen Mini -

https://www.mackenziehifi.com/innuos-zenmini-mk3-m...

(I've linked to a dealer site as the Innuos website appears to be down).

Will allow you to rip all your discs and also play Tidal and other services and they are all great sounding units.

It's also about the same price as the CA streamer.

Edited by tonyg58 on Thursday 11th February 16:06

Thanks Tony.

My plan is to retain my CD player as I do have hundreds of CDs. I probably wouldn’t buy any more CDs though, as streaming is so easy and convenient - and Tidal Hi-fi will give me virtually the same sound quality.

[Riff Raff]

FazerBoy said:

tonyg58 said:

Naim NDX 2 is well overspecified for your system.
I don't know the Cambridge Audio player, so can't comment.
You have a current CD player, are you going to abandon CDs?
IMHO the Innuos players are great and the Zen Mini -

https://www.mackenziehifi.com/innuos-zenmini-mk3-m...

(I've linked to a dealer site as the Innuos website appears to be down).

Will allow you to rip all your discs and also play Tidal and other services and they are all great sounding units.

It's also about the same price as the CA streamer.

Edited by tonyg58 on Thursday 11th February 16:06

Thanks Tony.

My plan is to retain my CD player as I do have hundreds of CDs. I probably wouldn’t buy any more CDs though, as streaming is so easy and convenient - and Tidal Hi-fi will give me virtually the same sound quality.

Just to add to Tony's post. I bought an ex demo Innuos ZENith a couple of months ago to replace an ailing and failing Naim HDX. it's an amazing sounding bit of kit. A distinct improvement on the Naim. Mine is hooked up to a Teddy Pardo TeddyDac using the asynchronous USB input.

For anyone looking for a top quality one box store/streamer, I'd recommend a listen.

[FazerBoy]

toasty said:

FWIW I have a Naim Uniti Atom which IMHO is fabulous as an all in one plus speakers (Kef LS50 and REL T5i) running only Tidal and internet radio. The Naim app and connectivity is very good but occasionally requires a reboot.

If you're considering changing the Audiolabs, you might be interested in demoing the Uniti Star which has a CD player as well as the Amp/Streamer.

Thanks Toasty. The Unity Star does look very good indeed!

[rednotdead]

I've got a gen1 naimuniti and have the upgrade itch. I recently demo'd audiolab 6000a/6000n/6000cdt, Arcam SA20/CDS50, Quad Artera Solus Play and the newer naim unitis (the atom and the star). The audiolab gear was a definite step down from my naimuniti, the arcam stuff comparable (didn't like the app to control streaming), the Quad was better but the atom and star were a huge improvement and the best of the bunch. A naimuniti star is coming my way sometime in the next few months.

[tonyg58]

Riff Raff said:

Just to add to Tony's post. I bought an ex demo Innuos ZENith a couple of months ago to replace an ailing and failing Naim HDX. it's an amazing sounding bit of kit. A distinct improvement on the Naim. Mine is hooked up to a Teddy Pardo TeddyDac using the asynchronous USB input.

For anyone looking for a top quality one box store/streamer, I'd recommend a listen.

Glad you like it.
I've always been an Innuos fan, makes ripping CDs so easy and sounds excellent.
I've got a Zenith plugged into an Anthem STR.

[FazerBoy]

rednotdead said:

I've got a gen1 naimuniti and have the upgrade itch. I recently demo'd audiolab 6000a/6000n/6000cdt, Arcam SA20/CDS50, Quad Artera Solus Play and the newer naim unitis (the atom and the star). The audiolab gear was a definite step down from my naimuniti, the arcam stuff comparable (didn't like the app to control streaming), the Quad was better but the atom and star were a huge improvement and the best of the bunch. A naimuniti star is coming my way sometime in the next few months.

Yeah, looking at the reviews the Naim Unity stuff looks really good and would seem to be a neat, simple and compact all-round solution which sounds amazing, so I am now thinking of moving on my Audiolab stuff and going for the Naim one-box solution (pending a demo etc).

I guess in my case though my speakers will then let the side down, won’t they? They are Dali Opticon 6 - so not total rubbish but definitely towards the lower end of the speaker spectrum when I see the cost of the speakers that people are linking up to the Naim stuff.

It seems that with hi-fi (as with many things!) the more you spend on one component, the more you have to spend on others to gain the benefit!

Edited by FazerBoy on Thursday 11th February 21:45