Why have TVR not been sued?
Discussion
As many of you will recall, I have in the past vigourously defended the S6 engine, but eventually mine went too. I really cant understand how TVR have got away with such a scandal as the S6 engine, why have not owners got together and sued them, clearly the engine was not fit for its purpose.
Sorry to hear that, mate!!
What went?
Is there a common fault?
Mine's OK, touch plastic...
If enough have the same problem then I think you may have a point, but the problems I've heard from other friends have all been different and niggling.
It is a contentious issue, it's a sports car not a Japanese commuter, but I concede that that argument has worn a little thin in this day and age.
Again, comiserations... Hope you get back on the road soon..
What went?
Is there a common fault?
Mine's OK, touch plastic...
If enough have the same problem then I think you may have a point, but the problems I've heard from other friends have all been different and niggling.
It is a contentious issue, it's a sports car not a Japanese commuter, but I concede that that argument has worn a little thin in this day and age.
Again, comiserations... Hope you get back on the road soon..
No chance of getting it back on the road, as I just wanted shot of the thing in the end....bought for 22K sold for 8.5K 2 years later, with a dead engine. There seems hardly a 1 S6 engine without at least 1 rebuild, ussually at low milage. Perhaps im just bitter but I think TVR should be thourouly ashamed. Having said that I still think the S6 engine is far superior to the AJP when its running.
I think the main reason is most people who by a TVR are enthusiasts for the marque.
Most generally know of the realiability issues that can come with ownership of a TVR, but for the money there really is'nt much out there that comes close to the looks, performance and individuality of them.
Most generally know of the realiability issues that can come with ownership of a TVR, but for the money there really is'nt much out there that comes close to the looks, performance and individuality of them.
zooooom said:Thats all there is too it. Lets give them time to sort the engine. Its only going to get better.
I think the main reason is most people who by a TVR are enthusiasts for the marque.
Most generally know of the realiability issues that can come with ownership of a TVR, but for the money there really is'nt much out there that comes close to the looks, performance and individuality of them.
ocean1 said:
No chance of getting it back on the road, as I just wanted shot of the thing in the end....bought for 22K sold for 8.5K 2 years later, with a dead engine.
At a risk of being seen to be advocating throwing good money after bad (as the saying goes), would it not have been economic to have had it rebuilt and sold it as a runner, or did the sums not add up?
Alternatively, you could have considered a different engine. I believe the Corvette engines (LS1 ... LS6) have been fitted successfully, as has the Rover V8. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong).
>> Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 5th July 18:26
JonRB said:
No chance of getting it back on the road, as I just wanted shot of the thing in the end....bought for 22K sold for 8.5K 2 years later, with a dead engine.
At a risk of being seen to be advocating throwing good money after bad (as the saying goes), would it not have been economic to have had it rebuilt and sold it as a runner, or did the sums not add up?
Alternatively, you could have considered a different engine. I believe the Corvette engines (LS1 ... LS6) have been fitted successfully, as has the Rover V8. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong).
>> Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 5th July 18:26
I too thought that, but didn't like to say!
Those were my thoughts exactly on Ocean's original thread right after his engine mishap.
Put another way, if £8.5K is the going rate for an S6 with a broken engine, it makes more sense to buy that and have a brand new 2005-spec engine installed than pay £16-20K for a 'good' one and hope the engine won't break right after you get it c.q. the warranty expires.
Tell you what - I'd rather get a Speed 6 Cerbie this way (it is the most accomplished and enjoyable on a day to day basis according to many sources, and on top of that I'd get the benefit of the latest spec engine) than an earlier AJP-engined one for the same kind of cash and suffer the associated build quality and clutch issues...
Hmmm, I feel a plan coming together. Time to start replenishing the savings account...
Put another way, if £8.5K is the going rate for an S6 with a broken engine, it makes more sense to buy that and have a brand new 2005-spec engine installed than pay £16-20K for a 'good' one and hope the engine won't break right after you get it c.q. the warranty expires.
Tell you what - I'd rather get a Speed 6 Cerbie this way (it is the most accomplished and enjoyable on a day to day basis according to many sources, and on top of that I'd get the benefit of the latest spec engine) than an earlier AJP-engined one for the same kind of cash and suffer the associated build quality and clutch issues... Hmmm, I feel a plan coming together. Time to start replenishing the savings account... chris watton said:
ocean1 said:
No chance of getting it back on the road, as I just wanted shot of the thing in the end....bought for 22K sold for 8.5K 2 years later, with a dead engine.
At a risk of being seen to be advocating throwing good money after bad (as the saying goes), would it not have been economic to have had it rebuilt and sold it as a runner, or did the sums not add up? (...)
I too thought that, but didn't like to say!
900T-R said:
Those were my thoughts exactly on Ocean's original thread right after his engine mishap.
Put another way, if £8.5K is the going rate for an S6 with a broken engine, it makes more sense to buy that and have a brand new 2005-spec engine installed than pay £16-20K for a 'good' one and hope the engine won't break right after you get it c.q. the warranty expires.
chris watton said:
JonRB said:
ocean1 said:
No chance of getting it back on the road, as I just wanted shot of the thing in the end....bought for 22K sold for 8.5K 2 years later, with a dead engine.
At a risk of being seen to be advocating throwing good money after bad (as the saying goes), would it not have been economic to have had it rebuilt and sold it as a runner, or did the sums not add up? (...)
I too thought that, but didn't like to say!
Yes it would have made more sense, but I had already waited a looooong time trying to sell it as a runner, when the engine went that was just the last straw, wanted to get rid of it as soon as poss. Incidentally my engine seized completely, although the oil pressure showed ok just before, I believe most S6 engine problems are topend, perhaps it was my fault, I did leave it unused for sometime. Its only now that I can talk about it, to be honest I was financially ruined by it, guess i was living beyond my means.
JonRB said:
I believe the Corvette engines (LS1 ... LS6) have been fitted successfully, as has the Rover V8. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong).
I don't think so. There is one with an RV8 but that required a chassis mod. shpub is trying the LS route - good luck Steve! Like you HTBCIIW.
It's been a real shame seeing the fortunes of TVR decline over the past few years, and it seems to me that the problems with their new engines, and the perceived inabilty of TVR to do anything about it, is largely responsible. Until the chocolate engines came out, there seemed to be a core of owners who would routinely buy new TVRs every year or so, and strong residual values that made this economical. I've lost count of the number of hard core TVR enthusiasts who have had problem after problem and eventually given up. And when the new models cease to be an attractive upgrade from the old ones, where are the sales coming from? There was a time when almost any owner you talked to aspired to owning one of the newer models. TBH I wouldn't even consider any of the TVR powered cars unless I was rich enough to throw it away, and if you *gave* me any of the TVR powered cars I would immediately sell it and hope nothing blew up before I got shot of it. Shame, because I really want them to do well and it's hard to imagine anything but another TVR replacing the V8S.
GreenV8S said:I totally agree Pete. TVR made such a fundamental shift away from the classics like the V8S, Griffith and Chimaera that the owners of those cars have few options for trade-up. I don't like the Tamora, don't like the Tuscan, the T350 is nice but I don't trust the engine (like you say). The Cerbera is a possible but is a totally different car to my Chimaera.
It's been a real shame seeing the fortunes of TVR decline over the past few years, and it seems to me that the problems with their new engines, and the perceived inabilty of TVR to do anything about it, is largely responsible. Until the chocolate engines came out, there seemed to be a core of owners who would routinely buy new TVRs every year or so, and strong residual values that made this economical. I've lost count of the number of hard core TVR enthusiasts who have had problem after problem and eventually given up. And when the new models cease to be an attractive upgrade from the old ones, where are the sales coming from? There was a time when almost any owner you talked to aspired to owning one of the newer models. TBH I wouldn't even consider any of the TVR powered cars unless I was rich enough to throw it away, and if you *gave* me any of the TVR powered cars I would immediately sell it and hope nothing blew up before I got shot of it. Shame, because I really want them to do well and it's hard to imagine anything but another TVR replacing the V8S.
The only other TVR is the Sagaris, which to be fair has grown on me to the point of being of interest, but it hasn't been around long enough for me to form an opinion on its reliablity. Don't forget the old maxim of never to buy a TVR model until it has been in production for several years and the bugs have been ironed out (sad but true).
Right now I don't know what I'd replace my 8 year-old Chimaera 500 with and surely, as you say, that is not a good position for a marque to be in.
I'm really sad about the whole situation. I only exist because of TVR, my mum being immediately attracted to the idea of a lift home because my dad had a grantura .... now what's really left ..
I have one of the last RV8 cars made, and that's where my TVR career will remain for the foreseeable.
I am not flush enough to buy new, need to buy a house really, therefore the future is even more bleak for me.
I can't see a TVR being properly made and sorted in the next 2 years .... then I need a couple of years depreciation on it ... and it has to look good as well. So at least 4yrs away.
I met a guy with a Tuscan in France recently and he almost pleaded with me to keep the Griffith maintaining that it had never been worth swapping his for a Tuscan.
I don't like the Sagaris, I don't like the new 'makeover' Tuscan, the Tamora continues to grow on me, the T350 is stunning, BUT ...
Chocolate engine built without motivation, pride or a real sense of workmanship.
I've had the pleasure of seeing one in pieces and there are parts that are being made in a jig on a bench by the YTS boy, chain tensioner for example. It looked like a mock up, but no, it's the actual part !!
What I get from TVR at the moment is that there are no standards (basic leadership quality) being set, no faith or investment in people, no listening to the feedback of affluent owners and increasingly sliding behind standards set ages ago.
By standards these are not just the centimetres and metres etc of production. This is off behaviour, sacking people for managing their own time, sacking people for having an opinion, allegedly. This is such poor, low level, unintellectual and downright appalling management that I really fear for the futute.
Who would really want to work for the wonderkid with no apparent management or lifeskills.
3yr warranty, well I hope the company I feel very passionate about is not sunk by this. I would love to have the opportunity to help turn TVR around, it needs a strong leader, who understand both sets of people. Those who make them, and those who buy them. I'm not that person, but by christ I would try !!!
I'm afraid that Smolenski has yet to demonstrate a single thing to me that said he can or does either.
I hear they got different shirts for the supervisors .... people said it was good ... it's so antiquated it's untrue !!!
Long live TVR, I will forever be a fan, as a family Dad's on his 4th, thinking of 5th over 35yrs, I'm just junior on my 2nd, over 5yrs ..... but I don't want to change marquea particularly ... I want them to be around as long as I am and grow into the business I believe they could be ... great.
Back to the question, I'd have done a Clarkson with a new TVR had it done what some on here have experienced.
I have one of the last RV8 cars made, and that's where my TVR career will remain for the foreseeable.
I am not flush enough to buy new, need to buy a house really, therefore the future is even more bleak for me.
I can't see a TVR being properly made and sorted in the next 2 years .... then I need a couple of years depreciation on it ... and it has to look good as well. So at least 4yrs away.
I met a guy with a Tuscan in France recently and he almost pleaded with me to keep the Griffith maintaining that it had never been worth swapping his for a Tuscan.
I don't like the Sagaris, I don't like the new 'makeover' Tuscan, the Tamora continues to grow on me, the T350 is stunning, BUT ...
Chocolate engine built without motivation, pride or a real sense of workmanship.
I've had the pleasure of seeing one in pieces and there are parts that are being made in a jig on a bench by the YTS boy, chain tensioner for example. It looked like a mock up, but no, it's the actual part !!
What I get from TVR at the moment is that there are no standards (basic leadership quality) being set, no faith or investment in people, no listening to the feedback of affluent owners and increasingly sliding behind standards set ages ago.
By standards these are not just the centimetres and metres etc of production. This is off behaviour, sacking people for managing their own time, sacking people for having an opinion, allegedly. This is such poor, low level, unintellectual and downright appalling management that I really fear for the futute.
Who would really want to work for the wonderkid with no apparent management or lifeskills.
3yr warranty, well I hope the company I feel very passionate about is not sunk by this. I would love to have the opportunity to help turn TVR around, it needs a strong leader, who understand both sets of people. Those who make them, and those who buy them. I'm not that person, but by christ I would try !!!
I'm afraid that Smolenski has yet to demonstrate a single thing to me that said he can or does either.
I hear they got different shirts for the supervisors .... people said it was good ... it's so antiquated it's untrue !!!
Long live TVR, I will forever be a fan, as a family Dad's on his 4th, thinking of 5th over 35yrs, I'm just junior on my 2nd, over 5yrs ..... but I don't want to change marquea particularly ... I want them to be around as long as I am and grow into the business I believe they could be ... great.
Back to the question, I'd have done a Clarkson with a new TVR had it done what some on here have experienced.
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