Different volumes for CDs vs vinyl - how to equalise?
Discussion
First world problem I know, but it bugs me regardless,,,
CDs and radio always play at a higher volume than vinyl or bluetooth on my hi-fi set up.
So I might play vinyl at (say) 25 volume, but I'd then need to turn CDs down to around 15 for the same volume output.
Hardly life-shattering I know, but is there any solution to this? A search would suggest a pre-amp could be used to adjust inputs, but my turntable already has a pre-amp, so not sure that would work.
I have a Denon RCD-M41, with a Sony PS-LX300 turntable.
Denon say (I am paraphrasing) "it is what it is, and external inputs may be quieter, you need to adjust the volume accordingly", but just in case anyone has any pearls of wisdom or workarounds I would be grateful. (but please treat me as a hi-fi numpty in any responses, otherwise you may confuse me! Thanks).
CDs and radio always play at a higher volume than vinyl or bluetooth on my hi-fi set up.
So I might play vinyl at (say) 25 volume, but I'd then need to turn CDs down to around 15 for the same volume output.
Hardly life-shattering I know, but is there any solution to this? A search would suggest a pre-amp could be used to adjust inputs, but my turntable already has a pre-amp, so not sure that would work.
I have a Denon RCD-M41, with a Sony PS-LX300 turntable.
Denon say (I am paraphrasing) "it is what it is, and external inputs may be quieter, you need to adjust the volume accordingly", but just in case anyone has any pearls of wisdom or workarounds I would be grateful. (but please treat me as a hi-fi numpty in any responses, otherwise you may confuse me! Thanks).
Thanks Andy. So I can still use an external pre-amp, even though the turntable already has its own pre-amp?
I guess I was hoping for a cheaper solution if possible. Is that a particular high-end one, or more expensive as you can vary the input level, etc? Sorry, don't know much re pre-amps!
(and it doesn't solve the bluetooth being low too, but i guess there's not a lot I can do re that!).
I guess I was hoping for a cheaper solution if possible. Is that a particular high-end one, or more expensive as you can vary the input level, etc? Sorry, don't know much re pre-amps!
(and it doesn't solve the bluetooth being low too, but i guess there's not a lot I can do re that!).
bungle said:
First world problem I know, but it bugs me regardless,,,
CDs and radio always play at a higher volume than vinyl or bluetooth on my hi-fi set up.
So I might play vinyl at (say) 25 volume, but I'd then need to turn CDs down to around 15 for the same volume output.
Hardly life-shattering I know, but is there any solution to this? A search would suggest a pre-amp could be used to adjust inputs, but my turntable already has a pre-amp, so not sure that would work.
I have a Denon RCD-M41, with a Sony PS-LX300 turntable.
Denon say (I am paraphrasing) "it is what it is, and external inputs may be quieter, you need to adjust the volume accordingly", but just in case anyone has any pearls of wisdom or workarounds I would be grateful. (but please treat me as a hi-fi numpty in any responses, otherwise you may confuse me! Thanks).
Might not be on yours, not sure of the model but FIL had a Sony turntable with inbuilt phono stage and it was quiet and he was complaining a bit about it, pulled it out to have a look and there was a little switch at the rear which was set incorrectly, flicked it over and instant volume increase, just see if you have a line level volume switch on the back before buying anything elseCDs and radio always play at a higher volume than vinyl or bluetooth on my hi-fi set up.
So I might play vinyl at (say) 25 volume, but I'd then need to turn CDs down to around 15 for the same volume output.
Hardly life-shattering I know, but is there any solution to this? A search would suggest a pre-amp could be used to adjust inputs, but my turntable already has a pre-amp, so not sure that would work.
I have a Denon RCD-M41, with a Sony PS-LX300 turntable.
Denon say (I am paraphrasing) "it is what it is, and external inputs may be quieter, you need to adjust the volume accordingly", but just in case anyone has any pearls of wisdom or workarounds I would be grateful. (but please treat me as a hi-fi numpty in any responses, otherwise you may confuse me! Thanks).
I think that switch is for using the inbuilt pre-amp to amplify the phono signal to line level and filter it as well (phono signal is recorded in a certain way with frequencies that need to be removed) or output the original phono signal that requires an external phono pre-amp to process it before connecting to an amp without a phono input.
Turn it to phono and then connect to the phono preamp recommended above - there are less expensive phono pre-amps but I’ve not seen them with a variable output which is what you need.
Turn it to phono and then connect to the phono preamp recommended above - there are less expensive phono pre-amps but I’ve not seen them with a variable output which is what you need.
Here’s the page from the user guide
And here’s a wiki link on the RIAA equalisation if you are interested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization
And here’s a wiki link on the RIAA equalisation if you are interested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization
bungle said:
Thanks Andy. So I can still use an external pre-amp, even though the turntable already has its own pre-amp?
I guess I was hoping for a cheaper solution if possible. Is that a particular high-end one, or more expensive as you can vary the input level, etc? Sorry, don't know much re pre-amps!
(and it doesn't solve the bluetooth being low too, but i guess there's not a lot I can do re that!).
You can, just connect the pre-amp between the deck and the amp and switch the turntable from line to phono. The Rega has good reviews and can be found for around £80. You may get a noticeable improvement in sound quality as well. https://www.whathifi.com/rega/fono-mini-a2d/reviewI guess I was hoping for a cheaper solution if possible. Is that a particular high-end one, or more expensive as you can vary the input level, etc? Sorry, don't know much re pre-amps!
(and it doesn't solve the bluetooth being low too, but i guess there's not a lot I can do re that!).
Thank you both. That's very helpful to help me understand what the pre-amp and different settings do! As I say, I am somewhat un-clued-up on this.
I know when I looked before based on a post earlier in the thread, I could only see them for £95+, but if they're out there for £80 I will try to look harder (!!), or if there's any obvious places to look where you know it's cheapest please do shout!
I do like listening to my vinyl, so the volume and quality is important (though the volume only important as I am too bone-idle to change the volume significantly every time I switch between different sources - I still do listen to a lot of CDs).
edit: sorry numpty question again, I assume the additional phono lead (??), the red/ white one, wouldn't be included, and I'd need to buy one. Not a showstopper though...
I know when I looked before based on a post earlier in the thread, I could only see them for £95+, but if they're out there for £80 I will try to look harder (!!), or if there's any obvious places to look where you know it's cheapest please do shout!
I do like listening to my vinyl, so the volume and quality is important (though the volume only important as I am too bone-idle to change the volume significantly every time I switch between different sources - I still do listen to a lot of CDs).
edit: sorry numpty question again, I assume the additional phono lead (??), the red/ white one, wouldn't be included, and I'd need to buy one. Not a showstopper though...
Edited by bungle on Tuesday 19th January 14:22
Ha!- yes- you'll need to buy another lead- Don't go overboard but about £20 for an interconnect is about right. QED Profile audio or something similar from Amazon. Just make sure it has 4 RCA connectors in total (2 at each end) as some of them are RCA to 3.5mm jack. You can ignore the £250 cables.
The key thing you are looking for is the adjustable output on the phono pre-amp.
With all of this there's a bit of a balancing act- don't spend enough and you might not get a phono amp that is as good as the one built into the turntable - a bit like buying cheap wine- the bottle and transport costs count for a lot of it with cheap wine etc.
There are also phono amps that double up as headphone amps as well if that adds any extra to you
As the system you have at present gives a sound you are happy with I'd be tempted to move your chair nearer the volume control!!
The key thing you are looking for is the adjustable output on the phono pre-amp.
With all of this there's a bit of a balancing act- don't spend enough and you might not get a phono amp that is as good as the one built into the turntable - a bit like buying cheap wine- the bottle and transport costs count for a lot of it with cheap wine etc.
There are also phono amps that double up as headphone amps as well if that adds any extra to you
As the system you have at present gives a sound you are happy with I'd be tempted to move your chair nearer the volume control!!
Cheapest I can find one at the moment is https://www.waringsathome.co.uk/fono-mini-a2d-ampl... and yes you'd need another cable.
Edit to add there are a few on fleabay
Edit to add there are a few on fleabay
Edited by AndyTR on Tuesday 19th January 16:16
Nice sugestions but will they work? CD player/DAC has a nominal output of 2V RMs but outputs of up to 7V are seen. Most Phono amps put out approx 1V RMS so you need to find one with high output and variable volume control. I find that the volume of CDs varies a lot and I normally need to adjust these for the best playing volume. LPs vary even more and 45s are always much louder than LPs. Getting an amp to put out the "same" volume for each input and then also for music type must be virtually impossible. If you don't fancy getting out of your chair get a decent amp with a remote volume control 
Thanks all - useful input all round.
So it sounds like the options are:
1. don't be so flippin lazy, and just adjust the volume when you switch between CD and vinyl. (fine when going from CD to vinyl, I just turn it up, but when I change from Vinyl to CD I scare the life out of myself when I first play the CD as it's so loud!! As I said at the start of this thread, 1st world problems).
2. or spend c. £100 all-in (incl cable), and for that i may get an increase in vinyl quality (as well as higher volume), but also (as immediately above) there may still be variations to volume.
So it sounds like the options are:
1. don't be so flippin lazy, and just adjust the volume when you switch between CD and vinyl. (fine when going from CD to vinyl, I just turn it up, but when I change from Vinyl to CD I scare the life out of myself when I first play the CD as it's so loud!! As I said at the start of this thread, 1st world problems).
2. or spend c. £100 all-in (incl cable), and for that i may get an increase in vinyl quality (as well as higher volume), but also (as immediately above) there may still be variations to volume.
Yes - they are your options.
As your system is a domestic all-in-one system it is unlikely to be expecting a “hot” (7v) signal, nor is it likely to be processing such a signal internally from the inbuilt CD player. I think the adjustable phono amp should fix your issues but there is a small chance, as identified above, that the volume might still be too low compared to cd.
If this doesn’t work then it’s either move the chair or get another system- I’ve got a Cyrus amp that allows attenuation on each input but even this cannot automatically adjust for loud or quiet recordings.
Let us know how you get on
As your system is a domestic all-in-one system it is unlikely to be expecting a “hot” (7v) signal, nor is it likely to be processing such a signal internally from the inbuilt CD player. I think the adjustable phono amp should fix your issues but there is a small chance, as identified above, that the volume might still be too low compared to cd.
If this doesn’t work then it’s either move the chair or get another system- I’ve got a Cyrus amp that allows attenuation on each input but even this cannot automatically adjust for loud or quiet recordings.
Let us know how you get on
As a bonus the Rega Fono mini has a USB out which can go directly into a laptop if you want to digitise your vinyl.
If the recording level is looking a bit low you can use the level knob on the Fono to change the amplification.
For the money this is a truly excellent thing !!
I use Audacity, which is open source and excellent if a bit fiddly.
I'm slowly using this set up to digitise my vinyl.
Trouble is, I'm adding new vinyl faster than I'm ripping it.
If the recording level is looking a bit low you can use the level knob on the Fono to change the amplification.
For the money this is a truly excellent thing !!
I use Audacity, which is open source and excellent if a bit fiddly.
I'm slowly using this set up to digitise my vinyl.
Trouble is, I'm adding new vinyl faster than I'm ripping it.
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