Creaking / clicking on lowered springs ?

[Paul2129]

Recently fitted lowered springs to a Tesla Model 3, reduction in height was only an inch or so, but they’re a much stronger spring, supposedly dual rate. Bought one of the more costly options from a large American Tesla mods specialist.
It was noted during the fitting by the mechanic that the bottom of the spring was not a good fit into the base of the strut, the design seemed slightly off, with the diameter of the last ‘turn’ of the spring not as tight as the cup it sits in, and also not presenting a completely flat mating surface for about a quarter of that last 360 of the spring.
Not surprisingly, as the steering is turned during slow manoeuvring, there’s a clicking / ticking / slight creak which can even be heard with the stereo on
The springs were replaced with new, the issue is the same again, I wondered if anyone has had a similar issue with springs causing noise (on any car) and if they found the issue to be bad fit or a design issue ?

I also have some new sway bars which are very thick compared to the originals, these were fitted with the replacement bushes that they came with, wondered if it could be the sway bars making noise ? Are they under any stress as the steering moves ?

Just wondered if anyone has had similar issues on any other car and can comment

Many thanks

Paul

[GreenV8S]

The first problems sound like design or manufacturing quality issues. The techniques for making coil springs are well known and they should have the same spring seat dimensions as the originals and have well formed ends. If the replacements have the same problem, it seems to me that isn't a suitable supplier.

Given how intrusive the noises are, it should be very simple to work out where they're coming from.

[stevieturbo]

Could equally be he has not put it back together correctly and the strut top bearings are now banjaxed.

[Paul2129]

Thanks for your replies. I guess some investigation would be good. Not sure if it’s possible to see or feel movement in the spring. I wonder if there’s an attachment, perhaps used in MOT where we can get under the car and still be able to test the steering action with car weight on it ?

[softtop]

Having access to a drive on ramp will give you the chance to review what's going on.

[Paul2129]

Thanks, I’ll keep you posted anyways 👍🏼👍🏼

[stevieturbo]

Paul2129 said:

Thanks for your replies. I guess some investigation would be good. Not sure if it’s possible to see or feel movement in the spring. I wonder if there’s an attachment, perhaps used in MOT where we can get under the car and still be able to test the steering action with car weight on it ?

Other than going up and down....the spring should not move independently from the other strut components. It should be secure between the lower and upper platforms.

Hence the need for the strut top bearing to allow it all to rotate freely and smoothly when turning the wheel, and often what people get wrong when doing such work.

If you really need....get a small borescope type camera and rig it up to get a visual.

[Paul2129]

Interesting point about the camera, I’ve also seen the mechanic use some kind of stethoscope to listen inside an alternator for example, perhaps this might help us work out where the sound is coming from ?

I’ll get it to the MOT place first and let them have a dig about

[stevieturbo]

Really...if the "mechanic" is competent, it shouldn't be that hard to figure out where any noise is coming from.

even just put your hand on a strut top while someone turns the wheel and feel ( and listen ) if things are smooth.

He took it apart, he refitted them, he should be able to tell if things are wrong. And as it seems you are saying he has done it twice with new springs ?
The chances of it being the springs are very slim...the chances of it being something the person did whilst fitting them....is rather higher.

Or just refit the old springs and see if it goes away.

[Paul2129]

Hmmm, good idea re the old springs, trouble is, I’m racking up a labour bill each time I try chasing my ‘slight noise’

I nearly bought coilovers instead, grrr

[Paul2129]

Actually I think the mechanic had mentioned that the only thing he could think of was that it might be too tight on the top bearings.

If we’ve buggered the top bearings, are these available as a bearing set for replacement ?

To be honest, it was clicking more or less straight away (or the first set of lowered springs) so it’s not like those bearings took time to start giving trouble

I think I’m getting ahead of myself, looking at the car carefully might help

[stevieturbo]

Paul2129 said:

Hmmm, good idea re the old springs, trouble is, I’m racking up a labour bill each time I try chasing my ‘slight noise’

I nearly bought coilovers instead, grrr

If he fitted things incorrectly causing the issue, he should be covering the repairs. Of course getting him to admit that may be harder.

Strut bearings etc etc are all parts that are readily available for most marques. But no idea what the availability of parts is with Tesla.
Of course if you do get the parts, you also need a mechanic who knows how to fit them correctly.

And if you're hearing it over the stereo....it's more than a slight noise. I'd imagine an electric vehicle would be near silent.

[Paul2129]

Tesla and parts ? Hmm, not great to be honest. First job is to find the source of the noise, I ‘think’ it’s coming from the drivers side, but even that I’m not sure. Unfortunately, EV’s are quiet, that’s not helping the issue, and you’re right, naturally the mechanic won’t admit to having caused the problem, but I showed a couple of other people, the guys who supplied my news wheels, and a guy who’s a specialist in wheel alignment (and ball-joints seemingly... recommended here actually) he thought it could just be stress on components, but I don’t buy that since there are other Tesla’s without the issue. Some on the Tesla forum have commented that I’m fussy, they’re probably right.

[stevieturbo]

Paul2129 said:

Tesla and parts ? Hmm, not great to be honest. First job is to find the source of the noise, I ‘think’ it’s coming from the drivers side, but even that I’m not sure. Unfortunately, EV’s are quiet, that’s not helping the issue, and you’re right, naturally the mechanic won’t admit to having caused the problem, but I showed a couple of other people, the guys who supplied my news wheels, and a guy who’s a specialist in wheel alignment (and ball-joints seemingly... recommended here actually) he thought it could just be stress on components, but I don’t buy that since there are other Tesla’s without the issue. Some on the Tesla forum have commented that I’m fussy, they’re probably right.

if it didn't do it before, there's little reason it should do it now.

Clunks or creaks etc are rarely an indication of something good.

Assuming the Tesla uses simple and common struts and no silly linkages, this isnt a bad video. Around 4 minutes you can see the guy show the top mount and bearing, which should be free and smooth to rotate.
This takes the load of the body, but allows the entire strut/spring assembly to rotate freely and smoothly with the steering etc. The spring itself is always, or should always be securely between the two spring platforms.

Lot's of people re-assemble these wrong and screw up the bearings so they cannot rotate. Such idiots should noit be working at vehicles though, but sadly ( and scarily ) many do.
There is a small chance that is not the problem, but it sounds likely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MraNBaCmcok

[Paul2129]

Interesting, thanks for the reply... and excuse my ignorance, but the spring stays put, clamped between top and bottom cups ? And the whole strut rotates at the top ?

[stevieturbo]

Paul2129 said:

Interesting, thanks for the reply... and excuse my ignorance, but the spring stays put, clamped between top and bottom cups ? And the whole strut rotates at the top ?

Yes. The entire strut, spring etc rotate via the bearing mount at the top, and the balljoint at the bottom of the hub. This allows free and smooth rotation at all times when working correctly.

The spring should never move independently from the strut. Although if the top bearing mount was secured to the top spring platform either incorrectly, without a bearing, or a failed bearing....something that shouldnt move, is going to try and move and probably make lots of noise in doing so.

It would also make things both very difficult to return, and also return to centre as they normally do when driving due to suspension geometry.
Although when you are turning the wheel, often powerful power steering can mask that, but any loss of self centering of the steering would indicate a major problem.

[Paul2129]

Sure, steering action is as per previous, seems fine in that respect.

I called Tesla earlier, they put you through to a random service centre, whoever is free at the time, spoke to a very helpful guy in Belfast, explained the issue, he took my VIN number and looked at a parts diagram, the then went off to speak to a colleague and the general consensus is that they think it’s the spring due to it being a bad fit.

Going up to the MOT place in the morning, will get it up on the ramp and have a listen

[stevieturbo]

No point listening unless the car is loaded on the suspension. So a 2 post ramp is out.

It will need to be on a 4 post ramp, or on the ground when you're listening etc.

[Paul2129]

Well, since I’m trying to gain some insight into this before bothering our mechanic further, I’ve decided on the MOT place instead of back to him. They’ve both got big ramps, but I made the assumption (almost certainly wrongly) that the MOT place would find it easier to support the car with weight on the suspension but not on the wheels, I would imagine that if the tyres drag on the ramp or the ground while turning the wheel that it’ll mask the noise, after all, when you hear the issue in driving, the car is obviously moving, albeit slowly.
I’ve complained again nicely the the spring supplier, highly likely they’re at f

[Paul2129]

Well, the garage couldnt visually see the issue, there were a few shrugged shoulders, then I picked up the bill for them looking. Not a great deal closer. Perhaps I’ll bite the bullet on a replacement alternative set of springs, coilovers... or a couple of standard struts off a smashed Model 3 will turn up, until then, it’s a mystery. Thank you all for your comments