Freedom of movement

[smifffymoto]

Correct me if I am wrong, but does the link say we keep freedom of movement

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LONDRES/en...

[Fatt McMissile]

"However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020."

Assuming you mean this, it does seem to say that. I've no wish to move to another EU country, but I hope this proves correct for those that do.

[Magooagain]

That would be great,but i think it's misleading.


https://www.britishineurope.org/articles/66995-bie...

Have a read of that.

[smifffymoto]

I took that from the website of the Spanish Consulate in London.

[smifffymoto]

The I have now done a bit more searching and found this. Taken from the European Commission dated December 2017.

[Magooagain]

Ok. Just to note that's a 2017 communication. But from that I glean that we can move to another eu member country for work and study and related purposes.

But still can only do 90 days in 180 for holidays etc.

Which is how I've always understood it.

[Mike-tf3n0]

"However, UK nationals and their family members who established the residence in other EU Member State before the end of the transition period in accordance with EU free movement law, will maintain their free movements rights after 31st December 2020."

This is my understanding of the position too.

[Magooagain]

Yes,for us that are resident in a eu country we should be able to move about freely in other eu countries using our residents permit without the time penalty etc,this is according to what my mrs has been reading up on this morning.

When it all comes into actually being used I think at each border there will be grey areas that could be on how the individual that you are dealing with interpretes the ruling.
For us I think the most important bit of moving about with our carte de sejour will be to make sure they don't stamp your passport. And that could be difficult.

[Rushjob]

If you are moving within the Schengen zone there shouldn't be any passport checks unless Schengen is suspended for, for example, terrorism or pandemic reasons.
I'm particularly interested in this as whilst we live in France, my father in law lives alone in Spain and we may need to visit for weeks/months at a time in the future.......
Hopefully this will be clarified but sadly my understanding was that whilst we have residential rights in our current home country, outside that country, we are subject to the normal UK 90/180 citizen rules.
I'm really hoping that my understanding of this is incorrect!

[Magooagain]

Rushjob said:

If you are moving within the Schengen zone there shouldn't be any passport checks unless Schengen is suspended for, for example, terrorism or pandemic reasons.
I'm particularly interested in this as whilst we live in France, my father in law lives alone in Spain and we may need to visit for weeks/months at a time in the future.......
Hopefully this will be clarified but sadly my understanding was that whilst we have residential rights in our current home country, outside that country, we are subject to the normal UK 90/180 citizen rules.
I'm really hoping that my understanding of this is incorrect!

Yes let's hope so.
If there are no passport checks then how would the 90/180 rule be inforced?
I'm thinking,based on no passport checks,that as long as you are driving into another country in a French reg vehicle(in our case) then it's unlikely that we would be looked at.
Air and sea ports will be a different ball game I imagine.

[Mike-tf3n0]

It was the case, theoretically, that we could move between countries in the Schengen area with only our Titres de Sejour. Hopefully that will continue to be the case. To be honest I can't really see the French being too silly about this as we are all contributing to the French economy, either by working and paying income tax etc or as pensioners spending all of our pensions in France. The Spanish have been quite clear that they want the expat community to stay in Spain because of this and I'm sure it will not have been missed by the French either!

[JeffreyD]

If you "live in France" surely your residency gives you rights over and above the Schengen via waiver rules?

I thought you got full FOM if you are a resident prior to the end of this year.

[rdjohn]

Down on the Costa del Crime, we frequently see Police and Guardia noting registration numbers of foreign cars as they pass through junctions. They also frequently note the numbers as kids are dropped off at school, a sure sign that someone is bending residency rules.

Within the new treaty, they are maintaining security arrangements so that suspect vehicles and passengers are notified to the onward destination.

I do not think they are looking for someone slightly overstaying the 90-day provision within Schengen because they have a second home there. The provision is primarily there to ensure that someone from a third nation country does not arrive on a tourist visa, forgets to go home, and then ends up working in a bar in Paris, Rome or Berlin, unchecked.

[Rushjob]

JeffreyD said:

If you "live in France" surely your residency gives you rights over and above the Schengen via waiver rules?

I thought you got full FOM if you are a resident prior to the end of this year.

That is exactly what we are discussing - certainly my understanding of the Withdrawal Agreement was that you have work / residency etc rights within your country of residence, as soon as you cross a border you are a 3rd nation national subject to the EU regulations ie 90/180 etc
As I've said before, i really hope I'm wrong.....

[JeffreyD]

Rushjob said:

That is exactly what we are discussing - certainly my understanding of the Withdrawal Agreement was that you have work / residency etc rights within your country of residence, as soon as you cross a border you are a 3rd nation national subject to the EU regulations ie 90/180 etc
As I've said before, i really hope I'm wrong.....

My understanding is if you have formal rights in one EU country that will extend throughout the EU.

So if you have formal residence in France you have FOM throughout the EU.

This seems like a decent summary.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explaine...

(About halfway down the page)

[Rushjob]

JeffreyD said:

My understanding is if you have formal rights in one EU country that will extend throughout the EU.

So if you have formal residence in France you have FOM throughout the EU.

This seems like a decent summary.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explaine...

(About halfway down the page)

If you click on the link embedded in this bit....

The Withdrawal Agreement guarantees UK citizens living in EU countries before 1 January 2021https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explaine... includes those who move during the transition period.

You follow the link and it then says

"It is not clear whether British citizens living in EU countries will be able to move freely to other EU countries after Brexit. That will be dealt with in the negotiations on the UK’s future relationship with the EU."

So sadly it's still not clear and probably won't be for a bit yet.......

[smifffymoto]

Once the agreement is ratified by both the EU and the UK,I think we can be confident we will retain FOM.

[JeffreyD]

smifffymoto said:

Once the agreement is ratified by both the EU and the UK,I think we can be confident we will retain FOM.

That's the way I am reading it as well.

[Rushjob]

smifffymoto said:

Once the agreement is ratified by both the EU and the UK,I think we can be confident we will retain FOM.

Just found this on the French Govt website relating to Withdrawal Agreement permits which suggests not

https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/accueil/vous-e... in the FAQ's

Will permits issued in France allow their holders to travel throughout the EU ?

Besides the holders being able to settle in France, the residence permits will allow them to travel in the other Schengen Area countries for periods of less than three months

Edited by Rushjob on Sunday 27th December 18:54

[JeffreyD]

Rushjob said:

Just found this on the French Govt website relating to Withdrawal Agreement permits which suggests not

https://brexit.gouv.fr/sites/brexit/accueil/vous-e... in the FAQ's
[b]Will permits issued in France allow their holders to travel throughout the EU ?

Besides the holders being able to settle in France, the residence permits will allow them to travel in the other Schengen Area countries for periods of less than three months.[/b]

Awesome.

I suppose it will impact a relatively small amount of people.

Let's hope "levelling up" gives them a warm feeling.