Discussion
Been living in NZ for over a year now. Have pretty much adjusted to being here but some things a bit puzzling:
- why isn’t third party car insurance compulsory? Presumably if you don’t have any assets you don’t have any problems because even if you are liable then the innocent party won’t be able to enforce a judgement. Also - surely this must mean that comprehensive insurance is more expensive because people are having to claim against their own insurance when they get hit by uninsured drivers.
- why are people unable or unwilling to drive on the left? Sitting in the outside lane for no reason and undertaking seem the norm here.
- jaywalking - seems endemic. Yesterday’s example was the epitome of it. Broadway in New Market by Westfield. Four lanes of heavy traffic. Old guy of at least 70 wanders across the road, forcing traffic to stop, despite the fact that 50 m to his left or right there were traffic lights with pedestrian crossings.
On the plus side I’ve ridden some of the best roads ever (SH 15 being the best) and drivers are generally courteous (at least outside of Auckland).
I didn’t realise old American cars were such a thing in NZ until we moved here.
- why isn’t third party car insurance compulsory? Presumably if you don’t have any assets you don’t have any problems because even if you are liable then the innocent party won’t be able to enforce a judgement. Also - surely this must mean that comprehensive insurance is more expensive because people are having to claim against their own insurance when they get hit by uninsured drivers.
- why are people unable or unwilling to drive on the left? Sitting in the outside lane for no reason and undertaking seem the norm here.
- jaywalking - seems endemic. Yesterday’s example was the epitome of it. Broadway in New Market by Westfield. Four lanes of heavy traffic. Old guy of at least 70 wanders across the road, forcing traffic to stop, despite the fact that 50 m to his left or right there were traffic lights with pedestrian crossings.
On the plus side I’ve ridden some of the best roads ever (SH 15 being the best) and drivers are generally courteous (at least outside of Auckland).
I didn’t realise old American cars were such a thing in NZ until we moved here.
Esceptico said:
Been living in NZ for over a year now. Have pretty much adjusted to being here but some things a bit puzzling:
- why isn’t third party car insurance compulsory? Presumably if you don’t have any assets you don’t have any problems because even if you are liable then the innocent party won’t be able to enforce a judgement. Also - surely this must mean that comprehensive insurance is more expensive because people are having to claim against their own insurance when they get hit by uninsured drivers.
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Ooh - ooh I know this one! Because it is in fuel prices and road tax...- why isn’t third party car insurance compulsory? Presumably if you don’t have any assets you don’t have any problems because even if you are liable then the innocent party won’t be able to enforce a judgement. Also - surely this must mean that comprehensive insurance is more expensive because people are having to claim against their own insurance when they get hit by uninsured drivers.
.
Did you know?
New Zealand already has a form of compulsory 'insurance' that covers the injuries caused by a vehicle accident. This is managed by the ACC and provides no-fault cover, meaning that any person injured as a result of an accident is covered. Motorists pay for this insurance through annual vehicle licence fees and also through a portion of the tax paid on every litre of fuel purchased.
wisbech said:
Esceptico said:
Been living in NZ for over a year now. Have pretty much adjusted to being here but some things a bit puzzling:
- why isn’t third party car insurance compulsory? Presumably if you don’t have any assets you don’t have any problems because even if you are liable then the innocent party won’t be able to enforce a judgement. Also - surely this must mean that comprehensive insurance is more expensive because people are having to claim against their own insurance when they get hit by uninsured drivers.
.
Ooh - ooh I know this one! Because it is in fuel prices and road tax...- why isn’t third party car insurance compulsory? Presumably if you don’t have any assets you don’t have any problems because even if you are liable then the innocent party won’t be able to enforce a judgement. Also - surely this must mean that comprehensive insurance is more expensive because people are having to claim against their own insurance when they get hit by uninsured drivers.
.
Did you know?
New Zealand already has a form of compulsory 'insurance' that covers the injuries caused by a vehicle accident. This is managed by the ACC and provides no-fault cover, meaning that any person injured as a result of an accident is covered. Motorists pay for this insurance through annual vehicle licence fees and also through a portion of the tax paid on every litre of fuel purchased.
wisbech said:
Ooh - ooh I know this one! Because it is in fuel prices and road tax...
Did you know?
New Zealand already has a form of compulsory 'insurance' that covers the injuries caused by a vehicle accident. This is managed by the ACC and provides no-fault cover, meaning that any person injured as a result of an accident is covered. Motorists pay for this insurance through annual vehicle licence fees and also through a portion of the tax paid on every litre of fuel purchased.
That's interesting, I like that idea.Did you know?
New Zealand already has a form of compulsory 'insurance' that covers the injuries caused by a vehicle accident. This is managed by the ACC and provides no-fault cover, meaning that any person injured as a result of an accident is covered. Motorists pay for this insurance through annual vehicle licence fees and also through a portion of the tax paid on every litre of fuel purchased.
Driving in the outside lane is definitely not a unique to NZ driving problem.
Jaywalking is a 'Thing' in only six or seven countries.
The old fella was probably hoping not to make it to the other side.
I did a six months working holiday in NZ; I absolutely fell in love with it. Am somewhat jealous of you. I am in Singapore, which is nice, but I miss the open land, mountains and polite people!
I've been living in NZ for 11 years now. Prior to that Australia and originally from the UK.
As others have said, ACC in NZ covers accident medical costs so that part of 3rd party insurance is not needed but ACC doesn't cover 3rd party property damage. That said, anybody with a valuable car should have fully comp which will cover you if an uninsured driver hits you and then the insurance company's problem to go and sue them for as much money as they can get out of the at fault uninsured driver. In Australia they don't have ACC but you still don't need 3rd party insurance (or at least you didn't 11 years ago when I lived there).
Lane discipline definitely isn't as good as UK but isn't much worse than a lot of other countries (Australia etc.). The great thing in NZ is that undertaking isn't illegal so you can actually use all of the road capacity even when people don't keep left. Makes total sense to me. I learnt to drive in the 90's and since before then all cars have had wing mirrors on BOTH sides and you are taught to check your blind spots when changing lanes in EITHER direction, so makes sense that undertaking is no less dangerous as long as people known it is permitted and are expecting it. I used to have to drive around the M25 every Sunday 20 years ago and I remember all the Sunday drivers would automatically join the motorway and migrate to the fast lane which would then slow to a crawl. I would just stay in the slow lane at 50mph (didn't want to take the piss) and whizz past them all. There is a lot to be said for British belief in good lane discipline but I don't think we are as good as it as we like to think!
What's the problem with crossing the road when it is safe to? I don't think anybody would suggest walking out and causing traffic to have to brake is acceptable (and I don't recall seeing that in NZ any more than anywhere else) but crossing where safe seems to be done here the same as in the UK. What frustrates me is when I visit some big cities in Australia and their the police do occasionally really crack down on anybody not crossing at traffic lights. I have never been caught but very aware of the disapproving looks I (sometimes) get from from the locals when I cross away from traffic lights even if there isn't a car in sight.
As others have said, ACC in NZ covers accident medical costs so that part of 3rd party insurance is not needed but ACC doesn't cover 3rd party property damage. That said, anybody with a valuable car should have fully comp which will cover you if an uninsured driver hits you and then the insurance company's problem to go and sue them for as much money as they can get out of the at fault uninsured driver. In Australia they don't have ACC but you still don't need 3rd party insurance (or at least you didn't 11 years ago when I lived there).
Lane discipline definitely isn't as good as UK but isn't much worse than a lot of other countries (Australia etc.). The great thing in NZ is that undertaking isn't illegal so you can actually use all of the road capacity even when people don't keep left. Makes total sense to me. I learnt to drive in the 90's and since before then all cars have had wing mirrors on BOTH sides and you are taught to check your blind spots when changing lanes in EITHER direction, so makes sense that undertaking is no less dangerous as long as people known it is permitted and are expecting it. I used to have to drive around the M25 every Sunday 20 years ago and I remember all the Sunday drivers would automatically join the motorway and migrate to the fast lane which would then slow to a crawl. I would just stay in the slow lane at 50mph (didn't want to take the piss) and whizz past them all. There is a lot to be said for British belief in good lane discipline but I don't think we are as good as it as we like to think!
What's the problem with crossing the road when it is safe to? I don't think anybody would suggest walking out and causing traffic to have to brake is acceptable (and I don't recall seeing that in NZ any more than anywhere else) but crossing where safe seems to be done here the same as in the UK. What frustrates me is when I visit some big cities in Australia and their the police do occasionally really crack down on anybody not crossing at traffic lights. I have never been caught but very aware of the disapproving looks I (sometimes) get from from the locals when I cross away from traffic lights even if there isn't a car in sight.
I've been here just short of a year and whilst the Kiwi's are some of the friendliest people, once they get into a car they're shocking (at least they are in Nelson). I cycle to work and am nearly killed at least once a week, overtaking on roundabouts and bends is normal as is overtaking then braking and turning off in front of me.
State Highway 6, whilst fairly straight and quiet seems to have an inordinate number of crashes. People just change lane without looking or even thinking.
Having driven the M4 and M25 for years, as bad as UK drivers are, the Kiwi's are in a league of their own here. Maybe they're better in big cities?
Once out of their cars, they return to being nice people!
State Highway 6, whilst fairly straight and quiet seems to have an inordinate number of crashes. People just change lane without looking or even thinking.
Having driven the M4 and M25 for years, as bad as UK drivers are, the Kiwi's are in a league of their own here. Maybe they're better in big cities?
Once out of their cars, they return to being nice people!
As a born and bred Kiwi I have to say that, as a nation, we are terrible drivers. I’ve driven many, many kms overseas and it always appals me when I return just how bad many Kiwi drivers are (failure to keep left, following too closely, not driving to the conditions, aggressive behaviour, speeding up while being passed….). I believe it stems from the historical belief that having a licence is a right, not a privilege, and the relative ease of obtaining a licence. We sorely need to beef up our driver education, and make obtaining a licence a real test of knowledge and skill.
I’d even go so far as to say that we should introduce mandatory re-testing every few years and mandatory third-party insurance. Too many Kiwis are simply “not aware” when behind the wheel.
I’d even go so far as to say that we should introduce mandatory re-testing every few years and mandatory third-party insurance. Too many Kiwis are simply “not aware” when behind the wheel.
As a fellow born and bred Kiwi I have to totally agree that the state of driving here is shocking. Arrogant, impatient and just generally lacking skill. Its scary, and for once we cannot blame it on tourists like we usually do, as there are none.
Last year we did a trip to the UK via the States, and the driving there was so much better. If we had half the lane discipline the UK has, life would be better. Nothing like a car in the left lane doing 80kph, and another car speed matching it in the right lane, blocking all traffic.
The issue I see with compulsory 3rd party insurance is that you end up with this monopoly like the UK has, where it can be horrifically expensive to insure a car. Insurance here is cheap. None of my cars, modified or not, have generally cost more than $1000 a year to insure for full coverage.
Your example of crashing into a Ferarri should have the owner protected anyway, as they should have insurance on their Ferarri, and the insurance company will pay out to fix that, and then chase the uninsured party for the cash. Yes, they will probably end up paying it off at $20 a week for the rest of their lives, but the owner of the Ferarri will continue to enjoy their repaired car in the mean time with not a care in the world.
Last year we did a trip to the UK via the States, and the driving there was so much better. If we had half the lane discipline the UK has, life would be better. Nothing like a car in the left lane doing 80kph, and another car speed matching it in the right lane, blocking all traffic.
The issue I see with compulsory 3rd party insurance is that you end up with this monopoly like the UK has, where it can be horrifically expensive to insure a car. Insurance here is cheap. None of my cars, modified or not, have generally cost more than $1000 a year to insure for full coverage.
Your example of crashing into a Ferarri should have the owner protected anyway, as they should have insurance on their Ferarri, and the insurance company will pay out to fix that, and then chase the uninsured party for the cash. Yes, they will probably end up paying it off at $20 a week for the rest of their lives, but the owner of the Ferarri will continue to enjoy their repaired car in the mean time with not a care in the world.
UK born, moved here in 2002.
Lots of kiwi drivers don't anticipate or seem to plan ahead more than 1 second. Many indicate to show what they have just done, rather than what they will be doing in 3 seconds time - the classic is that when there is a turn only lane in town, they move into the turn only lane from the ahead only lane, then as they are making the turn, the indicator goes on for the first time...
Another is that waiting at lights, where the left lane is ahead or left, and the right lane is ahead or right, they sit at the red light, and only when the get to the junction does the left indicator come on...
As for roundabouts, most elderly kiwis seem to indicate opposite to what they actually do. Younger drivers just don't indicate at all (presumably because they know where they are going and everyone else should know because it's obvious) You can tell a Brit at a roundabout because not only do they indicate correctly an the right time, but the car is positioned on the correct part of the road and lane.
Passing lanes - Kiwi blokes often block the overtaking lane by travelling at the exact same speed as the truck in the left lane (even if the truck is struggling uphill) until the extra lane ends, then ease ahead of the truck, causing everyone else trying to pass the truck to have to brake...
I could go on all day but won't.
Lots of kiwi drivers don't anticipate or seem to plan ahead more than 1 second. Many indicate to show what they have just done, rather than what they will be doing in 3 seconds time - the classic is that when there is a turn only lane in town, they move into the turn only lane from the ahead only lane, then as they are making the turn, the indicator goes on for the first time...
Another is that waiting at lights, where the left lane is ahead or left, and the right lane is ahead or right, they sit at the red light, and only when the get to the junction does the left indicator come on...
As for roundabouts, most elderly kiwis seem to indicate opposite to what they actually do. Younger drivers just don't indicate at all (presumably because they know where they are going and everyone else should know because it's obvious) You can tell a Brit at a roundabout because not only do they indicate correctly an the right time, but the car is positioned on the correct part of the road and lane.
Passing lanes - Kiwi blokes often block the overtaking lane by travelling at the exact same speed as the truck in the left lane (even if the truck is struggling uphill) until the extra lane ends, then ease ahead of the truck, causing everyone else trying to pass the truck to have to brake...
I could go on all day but won't.
Been here going on 3 years now, love it! Set up my own car club and we go for dawn raids and enjoy the epic local roads, I've also participated in several Gumboot Rallys (google it). The work is better paid and the quality of life (and weather) is better than the UK.
Driving here is notably worse in Auckland than out of it. It does make me laugh when people say the driving here is bad, it really isn't. Take it from someone who spent a decade in the Middle East, I've yet to see anyone stop on a roundabout for a chat with a mate or reverse around a roundabout after missing their turnoff, driving with hazard lights on because its foggy or raining, but not slowing down in any way, no tailgating and flashing lights if you dont immediately get out of the way...and that's just the common behavior I got used to out there!
When we moved here, the USA/Canada/UK were options, we are SO glad we made the right choice.
Driving here is notably worse in Auckland than out of it. It does make me laugh when people say the driving here is bad, it really isn't. Take it from someone who spent a decade in the Middle East, I've yet to see anyone stop on a roundabout for a chat with a mate or reverse around a roundabout after missing their turnoff, driving with hazard lights on because its foggy or raining, but not slowing down in any way, no tailgating and flashing lights if you dont immediately get out of the way...and that's just the common behavior I got used to out there!
When we moved here, the USA/Canada/UK were options, we are SO glad we made the right choice.
If you think Kiwis are poor road drivers you should try running a Trackday business.
I've seen drivers doing handbrake turns, reversing back down the main straight, stopping to perform burnouts and U turning into the exit of the pitlane.
The best ever was watching a driver exit the pitlane in an old Mercedes 350sl, roof down, no helmet and a big chilli bin on the passenger seat, he was drinking a beer and eating a sandwich.
We black flagged him, he slowed, did a U turn, drove the wrong way back down the main straight towards cars doing over 200kph, parked under the control tower, casually stepped out, looked up at us and said "Is that flag for me?".
He was still holding his beer.
I've seen drivers doing handbrake turns, reversing back down the main straight, stopping to perform burnouts and U turning into the exit of the pitlane.
The best ever was watching a driver exit the pitlane in an old Mercedes 350sl, roof down, no helmet and a big chilli bin on the passenger seat, he was drinking a beer and eating a sandwich.
We black flagged him, he slowed, did a U turn, drove the wrong way back down the main straight towards cars doing over 200kph, parked under the control tower, casually stepped out, looked up at us and said "Is that flag for me?".
He was still holding his beer.
cheddar said:
If you think Kiwis are poor road drivers you should try running a Trackday business.
I've seen drivers doing handbrake turns, reversing back down the main straight, stopping to perform burnouts and U turning into the exit of the pitlane.
The best ever was watching a driver exit the pitlane in an old Mercedes 350sl, roof down, no helmet and a big chilli bin on the passenger seat, he was drinking a beer and eating a sandwich.
We black flagged him, he slowed, did a U turn, drove the wrong way back down the main straight towards cars doing over 200kph, parked under the control tower, casually stepped out, looked up at us and said "Is that flag for me?".
He was still holding his beer.
Trackdays where? I'm Auckland based, have done a little instructing recently at HDownsI've seen drivers doing handbrake turns, reversing back down the main straight, stopping to perform burnouts and U turning into the exit of the pitlane.
The best ever was watching a driver exit the pitlane in an old Mercedes 350sl, roof down, no helmet and a big chilli bin on the passenger seat, he was drinking a beer and eating a sandwich.
We black flagged him, he slowed, did a U turn, drove the wrong way back down the main straight towards cars doing over 200kph, parked under the control tower, casually stepped out, looked up at us and said "Is that flag for me?".
He was still holding his beer.
Captain Obvious said:
Trackdays where? I'm Auckland based, have done a little instructing recently at HDowns
Ruapuna Raceway in Christchurch. I employed instructors, one of them an ex Formula 2 and V8 Supercar driver but despite costing only $20 for 5 laps no one was interested, they were all too macho to believe they needed any education.
I've got kiwi Trackday stories that make my teeth itch to this day.
I'm sure there are some shockers too, but the handful of trackdays I've done (Ruapuna, Levels and Teretonga a couple of times each) the standard of driving behaviour was pretty good - generally nothing worse than the odd slow driver in a fast car holding people up in the corners and not backing off on straights to let them past. To be fair those days were with the Playdays crowd, so most of the people there had at least some trackday experience already.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 21st December 21:27
KelvinatorNZ said:
As a fellow born and bred Kiwi I have to totally agree that the state of driving here is shocking. Arrogant, impatient and just generally lacking skill. Its scary, and for once we cannot blame it on tourists like we usually do, as there are none.
While I agree about Kiwi drivers often being impatient, living in the lower south island I've commonly seen far, far worse from tourists. Obviously there are exceptions, but most often its inconsiderate driving from Kiwis and extremely dangerous incompetence from tourists, often only avoiding serious crashes because the 'impatient' locals were alert enough to avoid them. The number times I've had to take evasive action for campervans and rentals pulling out in front of me without looking, stopping in the middle of the road on blind corners, bumbling down the wrong side of the road, the list goes on... you really do have to be on full alert and expecting random acts of stupidity driving in the tourist areas.Driving around Queenstown area in particular is much more pleasant this year than usual.
GravelBen said:
While I agree about Kiwi drivers often being impatient, living in the lower south island I've commonly seen far, far worse from tourists. Obviously there are exceptions, but most often its inconsiderate driving from Kiwis and extremely dangerous incompetence from tourists, often only avoiding serious crashes because the 'impatient' locals were alert enough to avoid them. The number times I've had to take evasive action for campervans and rentals pulling out in front of me without looking, stopping in the middle of the road on blind corners, bumbling down the wrong side of the road, the list goes on... you really do have to be on full alert and expecting random acts of stupidity driving in the tourist areas.
Driving around Queenstown area in particular is much more pleasant this year than usual.
I came over from the UK 13 years ago, live at the bottom of the South Island and agree with the comments about Kiwi drivers. Where I live we gets lots of "tourists" (which over the past two years seems to have become shorthand for "overseas visitors") and I have to say the locals are the worst. It's locals who ignore the "Stop" signs at junctions, because they know the roads, it's locals who stop opposite each other, blocking the road round blind bends, to chat with someone they haven't seen since yesterday, it's locals who ignore the speed restrictions in roadworks areas.....etc etc.Driving around Queenstown area in particular is much more pleasant this year than usual.
As for camper vans and rentals, it appears to be a little know fact, especially during the media rants about "tourists", but Kiwis also rent cars and campervans and tour around the country.....
Virtually no overseas visitors since the first lockdown and what's happened to the road toll? Has it dropped to zero? No! Last holiday weekend it was the highest for a few years, with just Kiwis on the roads. Something doesn't add up
I think one of the main issues is that we (Brits) b
h and moan about the state of the driving in the UK when it's actually some of the best in the world.
I can't think of anywhere else I've been where the standard of driving was better. Iceland maybe but when I was there you barely met another car.
h and moan about the state of the driving in the UK when it's actually some of the best in the world. I can't think of anywhere else I've been where the standard of driving was better. Iceland maybe but when I was there you barely met another car.
GravelBen said:
While I agree about Kiwi drivers often being impatient, living in the lower south island I've commonly seen far, far worse from tourists. Obviously there are exceptions, but most often its inconsiderate driving from Kiwis and extremely dangerous incompetence from tourists, often only avoiding serious crashes because the 'impatient' locals were alert enough to avoid them. The number times I've had to take evasive action for campervans and rentals pulling out in front of me without looking, stopping in the middle of the road on blind corners, bumbling down the wrong side of the road, the list goes on... you really do have to be on full alert and expecting random acts of stupidity driving in the tourist areas.
Driving around Queenstown area in particular is much more pleasant this year than usual.
Having just spent a couple of weeks over the Christmas break doing 1400km around Canterbury, I can say its a shame we don't have tourists to blame the driving I witnessed on anymore. The majority was really sDriving around Queenstown area in particular is much more pleasant this year than usual.
tty overtaking (Had a Falcon loaded up with youfs almost take the front of my car off when they realised there wasnt enough space between them and the oncoming traffic to get ahead the ute that passed me before them. I was going a cruise controlled 100kph, in a 100kph zone, during a zero-tolerance holiday period), but plenty of indicators that must be blown, and running red lights.I get tourist hot spots must have their share of shockers, but in general, the state of Kiwi driving is disgusting.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
70s music? Perhaps you are on the South Island. Here in Auckland we are more up to date as it seems to be 80s music everywhere!Yes I’ve definitely seen some Japanese cars I had never seen in the U.K. I am not sure if that will continue to the same extent. The exchange rate with the Yen used to be a lot better.
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