MP's - Leave Chavs Alone
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4077626.stm
Leave chavs alone, say MPs
By Brian Wheeler
BBC News politics reporter
They are rapidly becoming the most vilified group in British society. Lampooned by comedians, attacked by social commentators, portrayed by the media as loud, vulgar and abusive, and increasingly seen as a drain on the public finances.
But at least MPs are able to speak up for themselves.
Is there anyone out there who will take up the cudgels on behalf of that other much maligned social subset - the chav?
Since the word crossed over into the mainstream last year, after first appearing on satirical websites, chav has become a catch-all term for a flash or showy working class person.
Everyone from millionaire footballer Wayne Rooney and his girlfriend Colleen to the shoplifting single mother character Vicky Pollard, from BBC One's Little Britain, has been labelled a chav.
The Sun newspaper ran a "proud to be chav" campaign.
'Underclass'
The word has even entered the dictionary, defined as "a young working class person who dresses in casual sports clothing".
I do feel strongly that people who think this is a genuine label are really only labelling themselves as snobs
Lembit Opik, Lib Dem MP
But one chav-baiting website sums it up more succinctly as Britain's "new peasant underclass".
Michael Collins, author of The Likes of Us, a biography of the white working classes, says there is nothing new about the middle classes sneering at working class people who are a "bit affluent" or showy.
But the difference with the chav phenomenon, he adds, is that much of the vitriol has come from people "who consider themselves progressive".
"It has become quite a jokey thing. But the white working class are the last acceptable group to demonise," he says.
Liverpool MP Louise Ellman sees parallels with the way Liverpudlian youths were labelled "scallies" in the 1980s.
"I think it is all too easy to label other groups with ugly-sounding words. I think it is negative and not very helpful," she says.
Jealous
Ealing MP Stephen Pound says he is happy to be the Parliamentary spokesman for the chav nation.
"Chavs" have entered the dictionary
"I am an aspirant chav. My off-duty wear is a Fulham shirt with 'these colours don't run' on it. I don't have a lot of gold rings, but I am saving up for them. My daughter had her ears pierced at a fairly young age," the Labour MP says.
He sees the chav phenomenon as an insidious form of social snobbery.
"People who use the word don't understand the joy and confidence in display. They are just jealous that they can't play football as well as Wayne Rooney.
"It is yet another example of class snobbery. What on earth is wrong with a bit of flash, a bit of bling bling. It keeps a lot of jewellers in business."
'Snobs'
Liberal Democrat MP Lembit Opik says he is angry about the way the word is used to attack young working class people, particularly when it is used in conjunction with other terms, such as "council house scum".
"The same people who talk about chavs probably used to talk about the lower classes as regrettable and nasty. It is like the last days of the Raj.
"I do feel strongly that people who think this is a genuine label are really only labelling themselves as snobs."
The only way to combat the word, Mr Opik argues, is to invent labels for people who use it.
"I would describe myself as a TAFF - a tolerant and friendly fellow, and I would describe who people who use the word chav as BAPS - boring and pompous snobs."
Leave chavs alone, say MPs
By Brian Wheeler
BBC News politics reporter
They are rapidly becoming the most vilified group in British society. Lampooned by comedians, attacked by social commentators, portrayed by the media as loud, vulgar and abusive, and increasingly seen as a drain on the public finances.
But at least MPs are able to speak up for themselves.
Is there anyone out there who will take up the cudgels on behalf of that other much maligned social subset - the chav?
Since the word crossed over into the mainstream last year, after first appearing on satirical websites, chav has become a catch-all term for a flash or showy working class person.
Everyone from millionaire footballer Wayne Rooney and his girlfriend Colleen to the shoplifting single mother character Vicky Pollard, from BBC One's Little Britain, has been labelled a chav.
The Sun newspaper ran a "proud to be chav" campaign.
'Underclass'
The word has even entered the dictionary, defined as "a young working class person who dresses in casual sports clothing".
I do feel strongly that people who think this is a genuine label are really only labelling themselves as snobs
Lembit Opik, Lib Dem MP
But one chav-baiting website sums it up more succinctly as Britain's "new peasant underclass".
Michael Collins, author of The Likes of Us, a biography of the white working classes, says there is nothing new about the middle classes sneering at working class people who are a "bit affluent" or showy.
But the difference with the chav phenomenon, he adds, is that much of the vitriol has come from people "who consider themselves progressive".
"It has become quite a jokey thing. But the white working class are the last acceptable group to demonise," he says.
Liverpool MP Louise Ellman sees parallels with the way Liverpudlian youths were labelled "scallies" in the 1980s.
"I think it is all too easy to label other groups with ugly-sounding words. I think it is negative and not very helpful," she says.
Jealous
Ealing MP Stephen Pound says he is happy to be the Parliamentary spokesman for the chav nation.
"Chavs" have entered the dictionary
"I am an aspirant chav. My off-duty wear is a Fulham shirt with 'these colours don't run' on it. I don't have a lot of gold rings, but I am saving up for them. My daughter had her ears pierced at a fairly young age," the Labour MP says.
He sees the chav phenomenon as an insidious form of social snobbery.
"People who use the word don't understand the joy and confidence in display. They are just jealous that they can't play football as well as Wayne Rooney.
"It is yet another example of class snobbery. What on earth is wrong with a bit of flash, a bit of bling bling. It keeps a lot of jewellers in business."
'Snobs'
Liberal Democrat MP Lembit Opik says he is angry about the way the word is used to attack young working class people, particularly when it is used in conjunction with other terms, such as "council house scum".
"The same people who talk about chavs probably used to talk about the lower classes as regrettable and nasty. It is like the last days of the Raj.
"I do feel strongly that people who think this is a genuine label are really only labelling themselves as snobs."
The only way to combat the word, Mr Opik argues, is to invent labels for people who use it.
"I would describe myself as a TAFF - a tolerant and friendly fellow, and I would describe who people who use the word chav as BAPS - boring and pompous snobs."
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No, they're bent double under their middle-class-overly-consciencious guilt complexes, and they feel they have to be offended on behalf of everyone except themselves.
As a result, all things associated with being middle-class, white, British etc are made offensive and derided.
I like the fact we hate chavs. It shows the country is trying to reassert some standards. Of course the government prefer to keep everyone down
I am not from the UK, I may very well be entirely off the mark with what I'm abaout to say, but for what it's worth:
I get the impression that chavs are so labeled not for their class status at all, but rather how they behave. For instance, I think most would label Paris Hilton[1] a chav. Therefore any attack on the labeling of people as such would have to come from the appropriate angle. That is to say that it's not at all a classist label, but a behaviourist one. The above criticisms are, to my mind, thus off the mark somewhat. No surprise really :/
1: used her as an example after quick dredge through the memory banks for a decently chav-like obviously-not-working-class person
I get the impression that chavs are so labeled not for their class status at all, but rather how they behave. For instance, I think most would label Paris Hilton[1] a chav. Therefore any attack on the labeling of people as such would have to come from the appropriate angle. That is to say that it's not at all a classist label, but a behaviourist one. The above criticisms are, to my mind, thus off the mark somewhat. No surprise really :/
1: used her as an example after quick dredge through the memory banks for a decently chav-like obviously-not-working-class person
zaktoo said:
I am not from the UK, I may very well be entirely off the mark with what I'm abaout to say, but for what it's worth:
I get the impression that chavs are so labeled not for their class status at all, but rather how they behave. For instance, I think most would label Paris Hilton[1] a chav. Therefore any attack on the labeling of people as such would have to come from the appropriate angle. That is to say that it's not at all a classist label, but a behaviourist one. The above criticisms are, to my mind, thus off the mark somewhat. No surprise really :/
1: used her as an example after quick dredge through the memory banks for a decently chav-like obviously-not-working-class person
Your spot on, except we have socialist MP's who see political capital to be had by bending the definition of 'chav' to fit their typical class-hate agenda.
Matthew-TMM said:
Me and my family are working class, but that doesn't make us chavs. Nor do any of us appreciate the existence of chavs.
There is more sense being talked here than I usually hear about chavs/neds/scallies (let's be multi-regional). I get realy fed up with liberals bleating about a nasty and vicious sub-cultural being "poor working class people". Whilst lots of people are both poor and working class, they don't normally intimidate and mug people. Real chav culture is "lumpen-proleteriat" of the worst kind.
Having said that, the people who insult chavs (and the rest of us) most unkindly are people like Posh and Becks who ape their style.
Prof Beard
>> Edited by Prof Beard on Thursday 30th June 23:41
Matthew-TMM said:
Me and my family are working class, but that doesn't make us chavs. Nor do any of us appreciate the existence of chavs.
This is the point that the politicians (and a lot of joe public) have completely missed:
"chav" does not mean "working class". People who complain about chavs are not having a go at the working class, but those nasty little bottom feeders that we're all so painfully aware of.
It just so happens that a fair number are from working class backgrounds - but definitely not all of them.
Matthew-TMM said:
This is the point that the politicians (and a lot of joe public) have completely missed:
Do you really think these socialist MP's are missing the point by accident ?
Looks to me like (yet another) opportunity to bash the middle classes for no apparent reason.
Eric Mc said:
I actually hate "labels" being attached to people. Once we go down this route it is so easy to de-humanise them and then behave badly ourselves.
Are we all so perfect that we do not look like we belomg to some vilified group to other people?
I don't ever see this not happening; alot of people actually like being labelled in one way or the other...such as most people on here (including myself) don't mind at all being know as a petrolhead. Admittedly, some labels are positive and some are negative, but I really can't see an end to either.
It's human nature to group other people into classes or "tribes". It's something that has been part of society for (probably) hundreds of thousands of years. However, I always try to restrain myself from falling into what is, essentially, a fairly "primitive" form of behaviour - I don't always succeed I hasten to add.
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