Curious V5 Situation

[shtu]

I'm currently looking at a 3 year old car from a non-franchised dealer.

Everything checks out apart from one thing that, to be fair, they were open about upfront - the V5 they have is not the latest one, so the date of issue doesn't tally. The serial number does.

They've sent me the RAC-Branded history check (which has a warranty up to the value of the car for stolen\writeoff\finance), and I've done my own HPI check that's also clear, apart from the V5 date.

A personal plate was taken off the car earlier in the year, which also checks out OK. There's nothing else even faintly suspicious.

So,

- Utter scamsters?
- Admin snafu covered by the history check anyway?
- Anything else?

[shtu]

Bit of a bump for the evening crowd.
I know it's not a lease deal argument, but someone, somewhere, has an opinion.

[motorbloke]

Have you checked the date of last V5 that comes up on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk?

Is there much discrepancy?

Have you contacted the DVLA for advice?

[shtu]

motorbloke said:

Have you checked the date of last V5 that comes up on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk?

You absolute genius, that's well handy.

The one I've seen has a date of April 2020, with no former keepers at that point. That's when a personal plate was removed, the date matches exactly.

DVLA have the last issued logbook as August, presumably when the additional keeper has appeared. (finance co according to dealer)

It was serviced in July and I have the exact mileage at that date, and the advertised is basically the same. I'll get the exact mileage and see how that looks.

Edited by shtu on Thursday 12th November 23:01

[motorbloke]

shtu said:

You absolute genius, that's well handy.

The one I've seen has a date of April 2020, with no former keepers at that point. That's when a personal plate was removed, the date matches exactly.

DVLA have the last issued logbook as August, presumably when the additional keeper has appeared. (finance co according to dealer)

It was serviced in July and I have the exact mileage at that date, and the advertised is basically the same. I'll get the exact mileage and see how that looks.

Edited by shtu on Thursday 12th November 23:01

Hmm... I don't suppose there's a risk of it being a logbook loan thing?

Not that I know how it works, but I find it otherwise very weird why a finance company would:

a) buy a second hand car
b) keep the logbook or change the owner

[shtu]

Logbook loan was my thought.

However what has grabbed my attention is that between the MOT in April, and the service in July, the car travelled zero miles at all. Not even one.

Now I'm suspicious.

[andburg]

I'm not sure whether the dealer can apply for a copy of the V5 without registering it to themselves.

is the vehicle special or are the loads around?

If it's special is worth chucking a few quid a vcheck for your own records and to make sure its not been through a salvage auction as that is another possible reason not to have the V5.

[shtu]

andburg said:

I'm not sure whether the dealer can apply for a copy of the V5 without registering it to themselves.

is the vehicle special or are the loads around?

If it's special is worth chucking a few quid a vcheck for your own records and to make sure its not been through a salvage auction as that is another possible reason not to have the V5.

It's not hyper-rare, probably 20-30 around that age\price, but none with the spec this one has - some mug dropped over £7k of options onto it. To be totally fair to the seller, it does look very good indeed, but thanks to <mystery virus>, travelling to kick tyres in person isn't allowed just now, car showrooms are click-and-collect only.

The DVLA last V5 date matches the ownership change date on vCheck.

Tried the vcheck as well, which also came up clean, including the salvage check, so that's RAC, HPI and vCheck all clear. But I can't see why a finance co. would apply for the v5 - they have ownership via the bill of sale, so registered keeper is irrelevant.


Edit - Spoke to DVLA, they've confirmed the vehicle is "in trade" at the moment, ie, there's no registered keeper at the moment. Discussed the plausibility of the "finance as keeper" story, and they have said that it does happen, some do, some don't, it "just depends on the company".

I've had the MOT through, and it's a duplicate certificate issued at the same date as the ownership change.

Edited by shtu on Friday 13th November 10:49

[Sheepshanks]

I thought if you bought a car with outstanding finance from a dealer then you were isolated from the finance but it seems that's not 100% the case. Does the car have two keys?

Has the dealer been around for a few years, and have decent reviews?

How long has it been for sale? Supposedly there's a vast shortgage of decent used cars so why hasn't this sold? Few people do any sort of checks.

[Richard-D]

I'd ask the dealer how they are planning to transfer the registration of the vehicle to you.

I'd say ownership just so the usual loonies could would go mental despite knowing exactly what was meant but let's give them a rest for a day or so.

[shtu]

Sheepshanks said:

I thought if you bought a car with outstanding finance from a dealer then you were isolated from the finance but it seems that's not 100% the case Does the car have two keys?

Has the dealer been around for a few years, and have decent reviews?

How long has it been for sale? Supposedly there's a vast shortage of decent used cars so why hasn't this sold? Few people do any sort of checks.

Two Keys = Yes

Yes, they're small but been around a while, and specialise in higher-end stuff, this is actually one of their cheaper cars @ about £20k, and I haven't found a negative review anywhere.

About a month. It's a 2+2 sportscar in a specific spec, so perhaps not the biggest seller out there.

Edit - HPI\RAC\vCheck all say "no outstanding finance".

Edited by shtu on Friday 13th November 11:02

[shtu]

Richard-D said:

I'd ask the dealer how they are planning to transfer the registration of the vehicle to you.

DVLA have confirmed,

- it's "in trade", so I can use the paper V5 they do have to register it to me.

- I have to tax it using the green slip at a post office.

Richard-D said:

I'd say ownership just so the usual loonies could would go mental despite knowing exactly what was meant but let's give them a rest for a day or so.

You bad man.

[Richard-D]

shtu said:

Richard-D said:

I'd ask the dealer how they are planning to transfer the registration of the vehicle to you.

DVLA have confirmed,

- it's "in trade", so I can use the paper V5 they do have to register it to me.

- I have to tax it using the green slip at a post office.

Richard-D said:

I'd say ownership just so the usual loonies could would go mental despite knowing exactly what was meant but let's give them a rest for a day or so.

You bad man.

In which case I would do an HPI check making sure to use the VIN number not just the registration plate. I'd also read the terms and conditions for once (to make sure that the guarantee wasn't in some way affected by the current V5 not being present) and buy it anyway.

[shtu]

Richard-D said:

In which case I would do an HPI check making sure to use the VIN number not just the registration plate.

HPI fuss about the date, though thanks to the above advice I now have the correct date to input.

RAC and vCheck are both happy as-is, so there's £20k and £40k cover from them right now.

Richard-D said:

I'd also read the terms and conditions for once (to make sure that the guarantee wasn't in some way affected by the current V5 not being present)

Will do.

Richard-D said:

and buy it anyway.

Yeah, probably. Only slight niggle is the static mileage between MOT in April, and Service in July. Though the car looks right for the miles it's showing.

[andburg]

shtu said:

Yeah, probably. Only slight niggle is the static mileage between MOT in April, and Service in July. Though the car looks right for the miles it's showing.

possible the car was in storage.
MOT from the same place as the service? may never have left.

If you know where this was why not give them a call and ask.

[Richard-D]

Apologies I had forgotten about the service/date/MOT comment.

shtu said:

The one I've seen has a date of April 2020, with no former keepers at that point. That's when a personal plate was removed, the date matches exactly.

DVLA have the last issued logbook as August, presumably when the additional keeper has appeared. (finance co according to dealer)

It was serviced in July and I have the exact mileage at that date, and the advertised is basically the same. I'll get the exact mileage and see how that looks.

Would the dates work if the previous owner removed the plates before sale (April), sold to the dealer in July(ish), Dealer serviced and MOT'd so no mileage change. Does the dealer own their stock or could it be owned by a finance company? If that were the case they could have just told you of course but could be concerned about concerning you [insert comment about 2nd hand car dealers and honesty here].

[shtu]

Richard-D said:

Would the dates work if the previous owner removed the plates before sale (April), sold to the dealer in July(ish), Dealer serviced and MOT'd so no mileage change. Does the dealer own their stock or could it be owned by a finance company? If that were the case they could have just told you of course but could be concerned about concerning you [insert comment about 2nd hand car dealers and honesty here].

No, MOT (April) and Service (July) both done under Owner One.

Owner Two appears in August, same date as the duplicate MOT was procured.

Dealer was upfront about finance co. being in the trail, though he has avoided words like "repossessed".

[shtu]

Mystery solved.

Phoned the garage that did the MOT (April), Service (July) and had a chat with them.

The MOT and service (and tyres) were all done in April on the same day, so it's been an error inputting the service onto VAG's online service record system.

Result. Thanks to everyone that's helped pin it down.