The votes have been counted and the result is ?
Discussion
The home secretary said:
new passports including biometric data, such as iris scans, fingerprints and face scans, would cost £60-65 to produce.
He says the ID cards would cost only about £30 extra.
Why's that, then....?
The home secretary also said:
Earlier....a London School of Economics report estimating a cost per card of up to £300 "technically incompetent", saying one of the academics involved was "partisan" and had adopted questionable assumptions
So are the climate scientists.....but let's ignore that, eh, Mr Home Secretary?
Hmm and the Real ID Bill just passed through the House here in the US... coincidence?
Maybe I'll have to move to Bermuda... or Somalia...
But seriously, how stupid are our citizens not to realize what's happening? They're cynical enough to believe that the War in Iraq was made up, why can't they see the implications of a central, unsecure (since nothing can really be secure anymore...), database storing enough personal information to allow your identity to be stolen 10 times over, as well as let the government track your every move? Or is the American public just that dense?
Well, I'll be laughing from abroad when the West implodes on itself... It's just a matter of time.
*rant mode off*
Maybe I'll have to move to Bermuda... or Somalia...
But seriously, how stupid are our citizens not to realize what's happening? They're cynical enough to believe that the War in Iraq was made up, why can't they see the implications of a central, unsecure (since nothing can really be secure anymore...), database storing enough personal information to allow your identity to be stolen 10 times over, as well as let the government track your every move? Or is the American public just that dense?
Well, I'll be laughing from abroad when the West implodes on itself... It's just a matter of time.
*rant mode off*
The Home Secretary said:
Earlier....a London School of Economics report estimating a cost per card of up to £300 "technically incompetent", saying one of the academics involved was "partisan" and had adopted questionable assumptions
The LSE report certainly adopted one questionable assumption - namely that there will be no cost overruns. On a Govt IT project?!?
£300 my ar$e. By the time the whole thing's gone wildly over budget and they've had to give free or massively-subsidised ID cards to OAPs, the unemployed, those on low incomes, students and kids, I'd be surprised if the rest of us see much change from a grand.
>> Edited by DrSeuss on Wednesday 29th June 07:06
The general population don't really care what the government do as long as there's food in the supermarket, booze in the off licence and big brother on the TV.
I've got another 2 years to work in this country and then I'm moving to sunnier climes for a whole host of reasons. The oppressive self obsessed policies of our present government isn't exactly enticing me to stay......
If ID cards come in to force then I can see my form filling abilities may take a bit of a nose dive....
I've got another 2 years to work in this country and then I'm moving to sunnier climes for a whole host of reasons. The oppressive self obsessed policies of our present government isn't exactly enticing me to stay......
If ID cards come in to force then I can see my form filling abilities may take a bit of a nose dive....
I suspect there are easier ways of doing this, which the Govt. will have to revert to:
We already have photo passports, driving licences. We have to produce these to open a bank account. If the same applied when we wanted to rent a house, book into a hotel (they already won't take cash without it), collect a parcel, make a purchase over £XXX, get bail, get legal aid, withdraw more than £xxx in cash from the bank, etc we might find it easier to pay for an ID card rather than have the problems with passports etc all the time.
They just have to legislate that to access financial and public services you must produce the ID card, or D/Lic or passport and proof of address I am sure most of us would see it as the easy option. I would.
We already have photo passports, driving licences. We have to produce these to open a bank account. If the same applied when we wanted to rent a house, book into a hotel (they already won't take cash without it), collect a parcel, make a purchase over £XXX, get bail, get legal aid, withdraw more than £xxx in cash from the bank, etc we might find it easier to pay for an ID card rather than have the problems with passports etc all the time.
They just have to legislate that to access financial and public services you must produce the ID card, or D/Lic or passport and proof of address I am sure most of us would see it as the easy option. I would.
shirepro said:
They just have to legislate that to access financial and public services you must produce the ID card, or D/Lic or passport and proof of address I am sure most of us would see it as the easy option. I would.
I already have a driving licence, so for me that would be the easy option, and no need for my biometrics to be held in a huge database, with all the problems that entails. Truly, apart from the cost, if the biometrics were to be held on the card, and only on the card, I wouldn't have too much of a problem. Still an utterly pointless waste of money, but that's government for you. It's the database that I cannot and will not accept, they can see me in court.
Why not just make it compulsory for everyone over 16 to have a driving licence? If you aren't entitled to drive anything, your licence will just have a blank in the 'permitted categories' section. Implementation cost: negligible. OK, you don't get the fancy biometrics, but I'm struggling to see why they are really needed, unless the Govt is planning to put iris scanners in every place where ID cards have to be produced (dole offices etc).
Of course this idea doesn't allow Gordon Brown to employ tens of thousands more public sector workers, or hand out huge contracts to the Govt's favourite consultancy firms, so it won't happen...
Of course this idea doesn't allow Gordon Brown to employ tens of thousands more public sector workers, or hand out huge contracts to the Govt's favourite consultancy firms, so it won't happen...
I would imagine all it takes to throw a huge spanner in the works is one "human rights" case in Brussels.
The government has no business whatsoever knowing how I choose to live my life. I've got a feeling this could backfire and make the poll tax riots look like a walk in the park
Sunday bloody Sunday anyone?
The government has no business whatsoever knowing how I choose to live my life. I've got a feeling this could backfire and make the poll tax riots look like a walk in the park
Sunday bloody Sunday anyone?
Complete waste of time and money.
ID cards that are not compulsory and you don't have to have them about your person....so why bother having them at all?
If they combined Passport/Driving License/ID Card info into one then yes that would be a good idea, but this proposal is just a complete waste of money.
ID cards that are not compulsory and you don't have to have them about your person....so why bother having them at all?
If they combined Passport/Driving License/ID Card info into one then yes that would be a good idea, but this proposal is just a complete waste of money.
Typical, they think of an idea WE pay for it. I still think that this is due to the US needing passport control. House of commons my ar$e, if they were common people ie bloke in street he would tell them all to f
k off. Perhaps Bliar has pushed everyone too far this time? But the nodding "yes" men will just amble along and agree with anything providing it does not upset their position or salary.
Taken from Sky news channel:-
Will we go the whole way and make Jewish people have their cards stamped with a big letter J? Will we need our ID cards before we're allowed to buy food? Or perhaps inspectors on trains will be shadowed by soldiers demanding to see everyone'e papers. Which particular Reichminister will be responsible for it? I thought my Grandad fought across Europe to stop this sort of totalitarian nonsense.
Paul Ford, Rudgwick
edit:speelling agaain?
>> Edited by scared but happy on Wednesday 29th June 10:12
k off. Perhaps Bliar has pushed everyone too far this time? But the nodding "yes" men will just amble along and agree with anything providing it does not upset their position or salary. Taken from Sky news channel:-
Will we go the whole way and make Jewish people have their cards stamped with a big letter J? Will we need our ID cards before we're allowed to buy food? Or perhaps inspectors on trains will be shadowed by soldiers demanding to see everyone'e papers. Which particular Reichminister will be responsible for it? I thought my Grandad fought across Europe to stop this sort of totalitarian nonsense.
Paul Ford, Rudgwick
edit:speelling agaain?
>> Edited by scared but happy on Wednesday 29th June 10:12
Just to remind you - pledge to fight this nonsense:
www.pledgebank.com/refuse
Lots of information on ID cards:
www.no2id.net/
How to let your MP know your views
www.writetothem.com/
How to find out what they've been doing on your behalf:
www.theyworkforyou.com/
www.pledgebank.com/refuse
Lots of information on ID cards:
www.no2id.net/
How to let your MP know your views
www.writetothem.com/
How to find out what they've been doing on your behalf:
www.theyworkforyou.com/
bangernomics said:
Why not just make it compulsory for everyone over 16 to have a driving licence? If you aren't entitled to drive anything, your licence will just have a blank in the 'permitted categories' section. Implementation cost: negligible. OK, you don't get the fancy biometrics, but I'm struggling to see why they are really needed, unless the Govt is planning to put iris scanners in every place where ID cards have to be produced (dole offices etc).
Of course this idea doesn't allow Gordon Brown to employ tens of thousands more public sector workers, or hand out huge contracts to the Govt's favourite consultancy firms, so it won't happen...
Yeah. I think it's just a typical New Labour case of 'expensive technology looking for a use'. You can tell what happened is that a scientist has come up with biometrics/global warming holocaust theory/satellite car tracking etc - and the government has sat down and said 'how can we use this'.
I think it's time the government actually decided that sometimes it isn't necessary to use everything that comes their way.
What about harmonising all the 'coming of age' things - drinking, smoking, driving, marriage, army service, having sex etc - to 17, and issuing everyone with a proof of age card when they're 17. If this card is supposed to be about proving who you are so you can do things with the approval of the law, then that's how it'll be used I'm sure, so why is there any need for anything else?
The whole biometrics system and databases full of (saleable) information about the whole population is unnecessary and purely an authoritarian/financial measure.
up-the-dubs said:
Sunday bloody Sunday anyone?
Powerful words, Use them lightly. Over 25 people have died on the two bloody sundays in this country.
>> Edited by up-the-dubs on Wednesday 29th June 10:26
I am well aware of the power of the words, it's no accident that I used them. I think this is sufficiently emotive to engender genuine hostility towards the government. Personally I'm just about ready for a damn good riot.
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