111R, finally run in... Initial thoughts...
Discussion
Collected the car from Strattons yesterday after the initial 1000mile service - no more watching the rev counter and hello red light which tells me to change! It's strange because, in a straight line, the Elise is seriously quick yet I don't feel like I'm being thrown back in the seat (even on 2nd cam) in the style of say a fast Suburu – different spread of power I guess. I think the overall package is superb and there is no other car for the B roads but, I'm afraid to say, the engine is a little frustrating to work because the power band is so high. As per all the reviews of the R, this isn't a problem when there's just you and the track without the need to overtake slow moving cars (basically everything else on the road!). Perhaps I'll become used to it after some time but at the moment I see it as a negative for driving on today's busy roads because you have to work hard to ensure you hit the revs just right if you want all out power – if not, you end up a few hundred revs below 6.2K. The car is still rapid though at any rev range and the corners are great fun – just throw it in and arrive out the other side faster than any other car on the road (except the Exige!). So… I do think it’s a great car but probably need a little more time to adapt to the R’s style. I remember being very impressed with an S2 Sport 135 a few years back in terms of acceleration so perhaps the R needs a few thousand more miles on the clock? Also, don’t understand Petrol Ted’s review saying he spent a load of time hanging on and watching he didn’t end up in a hedge / ditch? The 2nd cam is definitely noticeable but not to the point where it makes the car a hooligan!?.
shot2bits said:
Collected the car from Strattons yesterday after the initial 1000mile service - no more watching the rev counter and hello red light which tells me to change! It's strange because, in a straight line, the Elise is seriously quick yet I don't feel like I'm being thrown back in the seat (even on 2nd cam) in the style of say a fast Suburu – different spread of power I guess. I think the overall package is superb and there is no other car for the B roads but, I'm afraid to say, the engine is a little frustrating to work because the power band is so high. As per all the reviews of the R, this isn't a problem when there's just you and the track without the need to overtake slow moving cars (basically everything else on the road!). Perhaps I'll become used to it after some time but at the moment I see it as a negative for driving on today's busy roads because you have to work hard to ensure you hit the revs just right if you want all out power – if not, you end up a few hundred revs below 6.2K. The car is still rapid though at any rev range and the corners are great fun – just throw it in and arrive out the other side faster than any other car on the road (except the Exige!). So… I do think it’s a great car but probably need a little more time to adapt to the R’s style. I remember being very impressed with an S2 Sport 135 a few years back in terms of acceleration so perhaps the R needs a few thousand more miles on the clock? Also, don’t understand Petrol Ted’s review saying he spent a load of time hanging on and watching he didn’t end up in a hedge / ditch? The 2nd cam is definitely noticeable but not to the point where it makes the car a hooligan!?.
Interesting point's
I agree the R doesn't seem as fast as some of the other turbo salons that are on the road, it's only when you see them in your rear view mirror getting smaller that it becomes apparent, I often run out of road before I get the car into the power band in 3rd gear, I couldn't believe just how quick it is compared to other car's I left a Golf VR6 Standing & I've even given 360's and DB9'S load's of trouble up to about 120
Did you get my mail about those track's ?
Boggy
The R forces a change in habit. You need to stop thinking about dropping one gear and seriously consider going down 2, before the overtake.
It took me for ever to get this into my head, the family car is a Diesel, so low revs are the norm with that. Even now, if I have driven the diesel for a few days, it takes a couple of "Oh Shit" moments to remind me to drop the additional gear.
Whatever happens you'll enjoy it. And I havnt found a car yet that will keep up with me on twisty A roads or any B road, except a Red exige that I know of. (Twinpipe stay away, my car dont look as impressive, when you are chasing me down the road
)
It took me for ever to get this into my head, the family car is a Diesel, so low revs are the norm with that. Even now, if I have driven the diesel for a few days, it takes a couple of "Oh Shit" moments to remind me to drop the additional gear.
Whatever happens you'll enjoy it. And I havnt found a car yet that will keep up with me on twisty A roads or any B road, except a Red exige that I know of. (Twinpipe stay away, my car dont look as impressive, when you are chasing me down the road
)I agree with ^these^ comments - you really do have to modify your gearchange habits to get the most out of the 'YotaMotor. For a serious overtake, you really need to be screaming it, just below the cam switchover point. However, I noticed mine seems to pull much more strongly if you set off from 4-5k into the VVTLi zone, than from, say, 2-3k where it seems a bit hollow and takes time to build up. However, from a standing start, it's pretty neat that if you change as soon as the red light comes on, it drops the revs back straight into the cam switchover point for the next gear, ready for Warp Drive. Nice touch!
In terms of my own memorable "adventures", two which spring to mind are a black Gallardo on the M60 and a green Vanquish on the A500 & M6. Funniest ever was a chavved-up Astra which pulled up next to me at the lights on the East Lancs Road - after revving the nuts off it to show off the wastegate sound effect, the driver asked what the "list price" of my car was and announced he was going to "smoke" me. Obviously been watching The Fast And The Furious too many times!
[k]
In terms of my own memorable "adventures", two which spring to mind are a black Gallardo on the M60 and a green Vanquish on the A500 & M6. Funniest ever was a chavved-up Astra which pulled up next to me at the lights on the East Lancs Road - after revving the nuts off it to show off the wastegate sound effect, the driver asked what the "list price" of my car was and announced he was going to "smoke" me. Obviously been watching The Fast And The Furious too many times!
[k]
[quote=[k]ar|]I agree with ^these^ comments - you really do have to modify your gearchange habits to get the most out of the 'YotaMotor. For a serious overtake, you really need to be screaming it, just below the cam switchover point. However, I noticed mine seems to pull much more strongly if you set off from 4-5k into the VVTLi zone, than from, say, 2-3k where it seems a bit hollow and takes time to build up. However, from a standing start, it's pretty neat that if you change as soon as the red light comes on, it drops the revs back straight into the cam switchover point for the next gear, ready for Warp Drive. Nice touch!
In terms of my own memorable "adventures", two which spring to mind are a black Gallardo on the M60 and a green Vanquish on the A500 & M6. Funniest ever was a chavved-up Astra which pulled up next to me at the lights on the East Lancs Road - after revving the nuts off it to show off the wastegate sound effect, the driver asked what the "list price" of my car was and announced he was going to "smoke" me. Obviously been watching The Fast And The Furious too many times!
[k]
[/quote]
Wicked Karl,
I've just got up off the floor, what a laugh
Why do these young kid's bolt on all this crap and then expect it to beat a car that's had millon's spent on development ? Yay! they crack me up 
Boggy
In terms of my own memorable "adventures", two which spring to mind are a black Gallardo on the M60 and a green Vanquish on the A500 & M6. Funniest ever was a chavved-up Astra which pulled up next to me at the lights on the East Lancs Road - after revving the nuts off it to show off the wastegate sound effect, the driver asked what the "list price" of my car was and announced he was going to "smoke" me. Obviously been watching The Fast And The Furious too many times!
[k]
[/quote]
Wicked Karl,
I've just got up off the floor, what a laugh
Why do these young kid's bolt on all this crap and then expect it to beat a car that's had millon's spent on development ? Yay! they crack me up Boggy
S Works, all I can say is its a habit thing.
There is another thread currently about Elise brakes being crap. Others who have had the car for a while say they are brilliant that they have no driver aids and its just a matter of getting used to them.
The same applies to the Toyota engine. Try and get one to TD for a weekend. You'll start to get the knack in that time, even if not completely
There is another thread currently about Elise brakes being crap. Others who have had the car for a while say they are brilliant that they have no driver aids and its just a matter of getting used to them.
The same applies to the Toyota engine. Try and get one to TD for a weekend. You'll start to get the knack in that time, even if not completely
I agree, you do have to be consious about gear change. This is more because because the powerband is small. After a Vtec honda the narrowness of the powerband is frustrating. I disagree that you have to work a turbo car any less, it is really difficult to deal with turbo lag but to deal with the powerband on the R, you just keep the revs high.
I think you also get used to the way the R delivers the speed, after a while the most frustrating thing is that it no longer feels fast despite the cars that are falling behind you. Sometimes I need a passenger who hasn't witnessed the acceleration or to get into a "normal" fast car to illustrate just how fast the R really is
I have spent this morning in a loan car thinking that if I had my car I would be around the shed dragger or the pensioner.
I think you also get used to the way the R delivers the speed, after a while the most frustrating thing is that it no longer feels fast despite the cars that are falling behind you. Sometimes I need a passenger who hasn't witnessed the acceleration or to get into a "normal" fast car to illustrate just how fast the R really is
I have spent this morning in a loan car thinking that if I had my car I would be around the shed dragger or the pensioner.
I think it's just a case of adapting to the style of driving. If the R is kept in the powerband then it does seriously fly - I just took it on the local dual and nailed it through every gear and 130 appeared pretty damn quick! I'll post again once I've done a few more miles and become a slave to the p'band 
beachbum said:
S Works, all I can say is its a habit thing.
There is another thread currently about Elise brakes being crap. Others who have had the car for a while say they are brilliant that they have no driver aids and its just a matter of getting used to them.
The same applies to the Toyota engine. Try and get one to TD for a weekend. You'll start to get the knack in that time, even if not completely
I can see your point, I really can. The point I can't reconcile is why you'd want to spend twice the amount of money for a car that really ISN'T 2x more fun, enjoyable, tractable than say a Sport 135, a Sport 160 or even a 111s. Frankly it just doesn't appeal to me and kind of takes away what I really fell in love with about El Beast. I simply didn't have to "work" his b*lll*cks off to have fun and be "wow"d by the car.
If I was going to spend 30k for something which was really, really fast, all the time, in all gears, which would trounce the b*ll*cks off pretty much anything else I'd get a Superlight R400 for about 20k and then a standard S1 for 10k when I didn't want to drill my eyeballs into the back of my brain.
As I said before, just not my cuppa!
VTECMatt said:
S works I whole heartedly agree with you, for similar reasons.
The only thing I would say is paying 30K for a virtually brand new car to 15K for and S160 is not comparable IMHO.
Ah but it is... a very simple equation as far as I'm concerned. A 30k brand new car to me should be worth double that of 15k car to me - otherwise what's the point?
S Works said:
I can see your point, I really can. The point I can't reconcile is why you'd want to spend twice the amount of money for a car that really ISN'T 2x more fun, enjoyable, tractable than say a Sport 135, a Sport 160 or even a 111s. Frankly it just doesn't appeal to me and kind of takes away what I really fell in love with about El Beast. I simply didn't have to "work" his b*lll*cks off to have fun and be "wow"d by the car.
If I was going to spend 30k for something which was really, really fast, all the time, in all gears, which would trounce the b*ll*cks off pretty much anything else I'd get a Superlight R400 for about 20k and then a standard S1 for 10k when I didn't want to drill my eyeballs into the back of my brain.
As I said before, just not my cuppa!
We had this discussion last night...
I am at a large disadvantage (trying to think and type with a really bad hangover) in that I have never driven a sport 135. I come at the R form a different angle. I have been driving a honda vtec and while the 'yota is not as good as a honda, it is still a very good engine and I enjoying working it. I dont see it as a negative, I love it. Dont go thinking there is nothing below 6.2k revs, I would estimate it has the pull of an engine of about 150bhp untill you get on to cam and go nuts with 190bhp. Off cam this car is no slouch. It means you drive 2 engines, a sporty motor for normal, then a nuts, superfast mad wagon when you bring it on cam.
I have also had loads of trouble with the K series and my personal opinion is that it is a shed (sorry, it is my opinion and I am not trying to insult owners before this degrades into a slagging match)
It is a very subjective and personal decision, where you may not see £30k value, I see my dream car.
God I need some asprin...
I went for another drive last night and tried out changing gears to ensure the revs hit the 2nd cam zone. I managed it more often than not so am guessing with a bit of practice, I'll adapt. Please don't get me wrong, this is one seriously fast car - the pace up to 130mph is very rapid - it's just that it's a different experience to that of say a turbo'd up saloon. I recently drove a highly tuned Impreza and that was SERIOUSLY fast but... I wouldn't want one because they don't match the feedback or the ability of an Elise - different car all together... In a nutshell, I think I expected the 2nd cam to be more of a kick having read peoples thoughts on acceleration of the 111R – it is noticeable, just not as much as I thought…
Hmmm I went out in an older imprezza and a new evo 8. The both had alot in common. They were both hugely capable and exeptionally fast. The most memorable part was how dire the interior was and how REALLY boring these cars are at any speed below about 120.
I am not saying it is a bad car, just not my taste.
I dont think there is much comparison between an Imprezza and a 111R.
I am not saying it is a bad car, just not my taste.
I dont think there is much comparison between an Imprezza and a 111R.
Agreed - I love the Elise, has me astounded by it's capability every time I drive it... And, you get to enjoy the sunshine at the same time - pretty damn hot over here in Norfolk today I'm going to get to grips with the engine - got to, made my choice and bought the car... One things for sure, I don't regret it one bit...
I'm going to get to grips with the engine - got to, made my choice and bought the car... One things for sure, I don't regret it one bit...At one week of the first maintenance, I am following the post with great interest.
Congrats and thank you, Shot2bits, for the info. I now know I have to expect something around 6200 but not so much, but still something. Will find out.
It looks like that in Belgium the dealers are A LOT MORE carefull. They do not confirm the Lotus maintenance book, suggesting to do not go over 3500 constant and 4000 sometimes before 1000 miles and the oil change. With this "power" I can't really overtake...
Regarding the powerband, I will quite quickly learn, at which speed I travel at 5800-6000rpm for each gear. When I want to overtake, the speedo will let me know how deep I need to go down with the stick...Does anybody knows the figures and you are all working by ear??
Ben
Congrats and thank you, Shot2bits, for the info. I now know I have to expect something around 6200 but not so much, but still something. Will find out.
It looks like that in Belgium the dealers are A LOT MORE carefull. They do not confirm the Lotus maintenance book, suggesting to do not go over 3500 constant and 4000 sometimes before 1000 miles and the oil change. With this "power" I can't really overtake...
Regarding the powerband, I will quite quickly learn, at which speed I travel at 5800-6000rpm for each gear. When I want to overtake, the speedo will let me know how deep I need to go down with the stick...Does anybody knows the figures and you are all working by ear??
Ben
gooby said:
It is a very subjective and personal decision, where you may not see £30k value, I see my dream car.
You make some good points mate, most of which I don't disagree with (although I think saying the K is a total shed is going a little far).
It's a horses for courses thing, and it's just not mine that's all.
I'm pleased you love your whip, hopefully we'll meet up sometime and can debate over a pint. I'll be in Bournemouth in mid-July for a wedding so maybe I'll meet up with the South Coast massive for a run and lunch?
beachbum said:
You also have to take into account the law of dimminishing returns.
You wont get twice as better by spending twice as much, with any product, especially cars in my opinion.
Of course you won't, but to me that's the kind of value judgement I make. It's not worth the extra investment and loss (depreciation will be large in the first few years) for me to make that kind of move unless it is incredibly special... and frankly, it's not.
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