Retail/management consultancy..
Discussion
Well I graduate soon, just waiting on results, two of the sectors I’m looking at applying for are retail management training or management consultancy. I was just wondering if any of you are in these fields and what you thought of them.
I'm drawn to each for different reasons.
I was also looking at going it alone, but tbh I want to be able to have a holiday in the next two years without worrying about my company!
I'm drawn to each for different reasons.
I was also looking at going it alone, but tbh I want to be able to have a holiday in the next two years without worrying about my company!
Hi Althalus
I have done a bit of both - currently splitting my time between organsational design & security management consultancy. The org design is much more traditional mgt cons but the security stuff keeps it interesting.
During a Uni placement I worked for a high st retailer in & did much of their head office mgt training scheme. For the last 12 months I have been working at a client who is another national hight st retailer so have almost come full circle.....
They are quite different beasts. Typically mgt cons can pay more, give you exposure to a lot of different clients & give you experience of a lot of different areas. The hours can be long and deadlines very tight. The atmosphere can be very competitive depending on who you go with.
Retail Management was good fun. I didn't/don't get to spend much time in store but the time I did I can say I really enjoyed. I still rue the fact that the company wasn't recruiting when I graduated so I moved into consultancy.
The hours are also pretty long & can be stressful dealing with customers & staff. You will also be expected to muck in with everyone else when things need to be done (not a bad thing). Different retailers have very different cultures which can strongly influence your day to day job. The retail managers I work with now fall into 2 groups - time served & good managers. The good managers quickly get to run their own stores (within months of graduating) and go on to either head office or area roles. There is a lot of resposibility quickly. The time served lot get to management roles through bloodyminded atrition (sp??) and tend to get lumbered with the backwater stores.
Both are good careers, with retail as it is at the moment I wouldn't say either is any more secure than the other if that is a factor for you. If you are thinking of setting out on your own, management consultancy will (if you get/push for the right jobs) can give you a broad business grounding reasonably quickly & you will be surrounded by people with similar ideas.
Like retail management you have to think on your feet & be able to take criticism from people who think they know what they are talking about but haven't got a clue.
Hope this helps pm me if you want any more info on either.
I have done a bit of both - currently splitting my time between organsational design & security management consultancy. The org design is much more traditional mgt cons but the security stuff keeps it interesting.
During a Uni placement I worked for a high st retailer in & did much of their head office mgt training scheme. For the last 12 months I have been working at a client who is another national hight st retailer so have almost come full circle.....
They are quite different beasts. Typically mgt cons can pay more, give you exposure to a lot of different clients & give you experience of a lot of different areas. The hours can be long and deadlines very tight. The atmosphere can be very competitive depending on who you go with.
Retail Management was good fun. I didn't/don't get to spend much time in store but the time I did I can say I really enjoyed. I still rue the fact that the company wasn't recruiting when I graduated so I moved into consultancy.
The hours are also pretty long & can be stressful dealing with customers & staff. You will also be expected to muck in with everyone else when things need to be done (not a bad thing). Different retailers have very different cultures which can strongly influence your day to day job. The retail managers I work with now fall into 2 groups - time served & good managers. The good managers quickly get to run their own stores (within months of graduating) and go on to either head office or area roles. There is a lot of resposibility quickly. The time served lot get to management roles through bloodyminded atrition (sp??) and tend to get lumbered with the backwater stores.
Both are good careers, with retail as it is at the moment I wouldn't say either is any more secure than the other if that is a factor for you. If you are thinking of setting out on your own, management consultancy will (if you get/push for the right jobs) can give you a broad business grounding reasonably quickly & you will be surrounded by people with similar ideas.
Like retail management you have to think on your feet & be able to take criticism from people who think they know what they are talking about but haven't got a clue.
Hope this helps pm me if you want any more info on either.
Thanks Bga 
That’s really helpful stuff, if you had your time again would you have gone for retail rather than consulting?
Sorry for not replying sooner, it was my birthday yesterday and also the end of uni exams so much
I have just been speaking to the folks at Accenture, Deloitte and Aldi at a careers fair.
I think management consulting is probable more my kind of thing. I need a bit of time to digest all the info I have just got, them I’m sure there will be plenty of questions!
I would be very interested in people opinions of different consultancies, work ethos etc..
That’s really helpful stuff, if you had your time again would you have gone for retail rather than consulting?
Sorry for not replying sooner, it was my birthday yesterday and also the end of uni exams so much
I have just been speaking to the folks at Accenture, Deloitte and Aldi at a careers fair.
I think management consulting is probable more my kind of thing. I need a bit of time to digest all the info I have just got, them I’m sure there will be plenty of questions!
I would be very interested in people opinions of different consultancies, work ethos etc..
Althalus said:
Thanks Bga
That’s really helpful stuff, if you had your time again would you have gone for retail rather than consulting?
Sorry for not replying sooner, it was my birthday yesterday and also the end of uni exams so much
I have just been speaking to the folks at Accenture, Deloitte and Aldi at a careers fair.
I think management consulting is probable more my kind of thing. I need a bit of time to digest all the info I have just got, them I’m sure there will be plenty of questions!
I would be very interested in people opinions of different consultancies, work ethos etc..
Hope you enjoyed yourself!
If the company I had done my placement with was recruiting when I graduated I would have jumped at the chance both then & now with 20:20 hindsight.
A number of my current clients are large retailers so I still have a fair bit involvement in the industry. Some of them have good schemes, some don't. From what I have heared the Aldi's scheme is pretty impressive - despite being pikey as you like
. A good place to check out the consultancies is www.thevault.com it is a bit US biased but you can get an idea of the cultures from there.
What sort of stuff are you looking to do/interested in?
The top 15 are
Accenture
CSC
Capgemini
AtosOrigin
LogicaCMC
Xansa
Mercer
Deloitte
Tribal
Watson Wyatt
PwC
PA
HP
McKinsey
Unisys
Most of them are IT & outsourcing firms but there are the strategy ones like Mercer & McKinsey who tend to focus on more mgt cons than IT, while PA mixes it all up quite well.
I think the work ethos is similar in all of them - lots of it! Long hours is balanced by reasonably good pay. This is compounded by not having time to spend it
. If you work away you will also save plenty as your weekly outgoings will be mainly covered. Just avoid consultants curse (eating out every night & little time to exercise). In all consultancies you need to be outgoing & gregarious as getting work & progressoin depends somewhat on your internal networks. Culturally Deloitte & Accenture are a bit different. I have worked with both & my opinions are that Accenture is a very "pushy" atmosphere. Very competitive, work like a dog & rewarded appropriately. Slightly too many grads with huge tie knots & pretending to read the FT my liking but some of the best people I have worked with are ex Accenture.
Deloitte is a bit like PwC in that it is hindered somewhat by it's Accountancy ties & that puts SEC restricted clients out of bounds for consultancy work and also can restrict advisory work to non-SEC audit clients. Also to note is that if you go down the technology route with an accountancy linked firm may end up doing audit support in quiet periods which is akin to having hot pins inserted under your nails.
There are some good people a Deloittes, they are ramping up recruitment again for both grads & experienced hires. The culture there is also work hard but a bit less manic than Accenture (& the pay is lower). They like to promote from within & apparently have a pretty good grad scheme too.
To be honest you will get good experience with most of the Consultancies. The name on your CV will open doors for you, as will the breadth of experience you get.
Hope this helps
Cheers,
bga
I had a really good evening thanks (*tho my head hurt a bit first thing!) It’s so nice to be able to relax sometimes! I think I need a couple of weeks break before I start applying.
I would really like the varied experience of consulting. I have to say I’m a bit worried about volume time away from home, how hard is it get back at weekends, see the girl friend in Southampton etc?
Both Accenture and Deloitte said yes its long hours (up to 60hr weeks
) but you should be able to get home most weekends.
I guess the biggest question is how hard is it to have a home life at the same time as consulting?
I was also wondering how easy is it to shape your career within the firms, or move between them. Is it possible to work on a wide variety of things (if you are good at networking) or do you tend to just get assigned to the same area?
Aldi came across, well, wrong on their stand. I think they seemed pikey and a bit slimy tbh (the pay is amazing tho 37k starting and fully expensed car), whereas the consulting firms seemed more professional and open. The other scheme I’m keen on is Waitrose/JLP, it seems well structured with the chance to progress fast and get an MBA in retail management.
How do you feel pay compares? I guess particularly over the first ten years. Store manager and above seem to be quite well paid and don’t need to be in London.
If I was choosing my first area to work on I would be going for Communications & High Tech or Natural recourses (they are where I feel I have most experience). Or an Automotive project if I could get one
I don’t know how well strategy would suit me, I like the idea, need to find out more about it!
Audit work, shudder! I might be trying to steer away from accountancy firms.
One more question for now (sorry to take advantage), if you had to describe consulting in five key words what words would you use? It caught out the recruiters on both stands– made them think for a few seconds at least.
(*tho my head hurt a bit first thing!) It’s so nice to be able to relax sometimes! I think I need a couple of weeks break before I start applying. I would really like the varied experience of consulting. I have to say I’m a bit worried about volume time away from home, how hard is it get back at weekends, see the girl friend in Southampton etc?
Both Accenture and Deloitte said yes its long hours (up to 60hr weeks
) but you should be able to get home most weekends. I guess the biggest question is how hard is it to have a home life at the same time as consulting?
I was also wondering how easy is it to shape your career within the firms, or move between them. Is it possible to work on a wide variety of things (if you are good at networking) or do you tend to just get assigned to the same area?
Aldi came across, well, wrong on their stand. I think they seemed pikey and a bit slimy tbh (the pay is amazing tho 37k starting and fully expensed car
), whereas the consulting firms seemed more professional and open. The other scheme I’m keen on is Waitrose/JLP, it seems well structured with the chance to progress fast and get an MBA in retail management. How do you feel pay compares? I guess particularly over the first ten years. Store manager and above seem to be quite well paid and don’t need to be in London.
If I was choosing my first area to work on I would be going for Communications & High Tech or Natural recourses (they are where I feel I have most experience). Or an Automotive project if I could get one
I don’t know how well strategy would suit me, I like the idea, need to find out more about it!
Audit work, shudder! I might be trying to steer away from accountancy firms.
One more question for now
(sorry to take advantage), if you had to describe consulting in five key words what words would you use? It caught out the recruiters on both stands– made them think for a few seconds at least. anonymous said:
[redacted]
Bar for McKinsey is very high. In the UK they will only recruit from about 4 universities and you will need a first. If you have an MBA, it will need to be from LBS or Insead. A PhD can help, but it will need to be a good one..from a good place. You will also need to have a few other "distinctive" things on your CV - it may help if you can walk on water!
Consultancy is a good career but there is a massive variance in the quality and the type of consultancies...
In most serious consulting type firms there is a pretty direct relationship between effort and reward.
I have worked in accounting / consultancy since laaving university just under 6 years ago.
I have never worked less than an average 60 hours a week.
Ability counts for something, but in the bigger / better firms there will always be somebody as good as you. If they are willing to do more hours than you, they will progrss faster than you. There is (normally) a direct relationship between hours/billing and profits in consultancy.
That having been said, most of the consulting type firms are pretty meritocratic. Without wishing to emulate "loadsamoney" I work extremely hard, am extremely good at what I do, and have been rewarded/promoted accordingly.
Friends in "corporates" started off ahead, but are still doing jobs that are much the same as they started off doing. The flip side of that is that most of the consuktancies operate an "up or out" culture. Ie if you are not being promoted, you are managed out, whereas this doesn't seem to apply at corporates.
I have worked in accounting / consultancy since laaving university just under 6 years ago.
I have never worked less than an average 60 hours a week.
Ability counts for something, but in the bigger / better firms there will always be somebody as good as you. If they are willing to do more hours than you, they will progrss faster than you. There is (normally) a direct relationship between hours/billing and profits in consultancy.
That having been said, most of the consulting type firms are pretty meritocratic. Without wishing to emulate "loadsamoney" I work extremely hard, am extremely good at what I do, and have been rewarded/promoted accordingly.
Friends in "corporates" started off ahead, but are still doing jobs that are much the same as they started off doing. The flip side of that is that most of the consuktancies operate an "up or out" culture. Ie if you are not being promoted, you are managed out, whereas this doesn't seem to apply at corporates.
Althalus said:
I have to say I’m a bit worried about volume time away from home, how hard is it get back at weekends, see the girl friend in Southampton etc?
I have not found weekends to be a problem & unless absolutely necessary I will not work them any more & put in the hours in the week. If you are working away from home it can be a pain. I have worked away for 4 years out of the last 5. Before I started I went though it with my g/f (now wife - so can't be too bad) and we agreed that we would give it a go. I won't pretend that it's easy & I have never really got used to it to be honest. On my current main engagement I am lucky in that I come home Tuesday night, back up Wednesday & work in London on Friday's.
Althalus said:
Both Accenture and Deloitte said yes its long hours (up to 60hr weeks
That sounds about right
Althalus said:
I guess the biggest question is how hard is it to have a home life at the same time as consulting?
You have to make some sacrifices. I have found it harder to keep in touch with some mates as I have only been home for 2 days & the missus took preference. Things are better now but for me at least, I have to make extra effort & it's easy to get out of touch.
Althalus said:
I was also wondering how easy is it to shape your career within the firms, or move between them. Is it possible to work on a wide variety of things (if you are good at networking) or do you tend to just get assigned to the same area?
I have found that it is entirely down to you. They typically give you the opportunity to do different things & that moving in between is not too hard if you really push for it. The variety of work you will do will give you a lot of skills which are transferrable to many things. You will also get thrown into work which you don't have a clue about, will panic a bit & realise you can do it. Apart from some niche areas (technical or legal for example), common sense & good core skills will enable you to do most things.
Moving in between firms is pretty straightforward as many in the industry offer similar services. Many people will do their time & then go independent or move out of consultancy into management positions in industries they have served.
Althalus said:
The other scheme I’m keen on is Waitrose/JLP, it seems well structured with the chance to progress fast and get an MBA in retail management.
Could be good. If you are interested in JLP, the M&S scheme is also very highly rated in the industry.
Althalus said:
How do you feel pay compares? I guess particularly over the first ten years. Store manager and above seem to be quite well paid and don’t need to be in London.
Consulting will pay a fair bit more. IIRC grad salaries are higher & will rise fast if you are good. The same will happen in Retail but often it is more "dead mans shoes" than consultancy, where if you earn the firm money (typically by selling work) they will promote you.
Many consulting firms are based in London but due to client work potentially being anywhere, they do not need to be based particularly close to the office.
Althalus said:
If I was choosing my first area to work on I would be going for Communications & High Tech or Natural recourses (they are where I feel I have most experience). Or an Automotive project if I could get one
Comms & infotech are quite widespread & should have interesting work. Not sure about Natural Resources but if you get into a firm & express interest in another area, it shouldn't ne too difficult to move or get some work in the area. In my experience the Automotive stuff is very competitive
. I was lined up to do something described as Automotive but ended up being around public transport which I couldn't stomach. Althalus said:
I don’t know how well strategy would suit me, I like the idea, need to find out more about it!
Strategy is the most competitive area. TBH I've never really rated young people who are doing strategy. After 5 years I still don't really know enough to do it justice in my area. IMO best to get good foundation & move into strategy after. Corporate finance/ M&A can be interesting but prob. need to do accounting qualification to do that. Very stressful but potential for earning mountains of cash.
Althalus said:
Audit work, shudder! I might be trying to steer away from accountancy firms.
It's an occupational hazard
Althalus said:
One more question for now
Relationships
Challenging
Satisfying
Variety
Meetings (but don't let that put you off)
In most serious consulting type firms there is a pretty direct relationship between effort and reward.
I have worked in accounting / consultancy since laaving university just under 6 years ago.
I have never worked less than an average 60 hours a week.
Ability counts for something, but in the bigger / better firms there will always be somebody as good as you. If they are willing to do more hours than you, they will progrss faster than you. There is (normally) a direct relationship between hours/billing and profits in consultancy.
That having been said, most of the consulting type firms are pretty meritocratic. Without wishing to emulate "loadsamoney" I work extremely hard, am extremely good at what I do, and have been rewarded/promoted accordingly.
Friends in "corporates" started off ahead, but are still doing jobs that are much the same as they started off doing. The flip side of that is that most of the consuktancies operate an "up or out" culture. Ie if you are not being promoted, you are managed out, whereas this doesn't seem to apply at corporates.
I have worked in accounting / consultancy since laaving university just under 6 years ago.
I have never worked less than an average 60 hours a week.
Ability counts for something, but in the bigger / better firms there will always be somebody as good as you. If they are willing to do more hours than you, they will progrss faster than you. There is (normally) a direct relationship between hours/billing and profits in consultancy.
That having been said, most of the consulting type firms are pretty meritocratic. Without wishing to emulate "loadsamoney" I work extremely hard, am extremely good at what I do, and have been rewarded/promoted accordingly.
Friends in "corporates" started off ahead, but are still doing jobs that are much the same as they started off doing. The flip side of that is that most of the consuktancies operate an "up or out" culture. Ie if you are not being promoted, you are managed out, whereas this doesn't seem to apply at corporates.
I would far rather have a career that I enjoy than a job that I do just for the money..
I would also like the feel I’m using my education and I’m not sure to what extent that would be true in retail. I defiantly want people to care about the work I do; it is always better working with like minded people. Although it has been pointed out the quality of staff in any profession is variable. However, I felt far more in tune with the consultants I talked to than with Aldi.
I think my mind is made up tbh I would love to say that my relationship will stand up to me not being at uni anymore. Only time will tell, it feels solid, gf still has another two years of med school then rotations etc.
I would far rather be proactive than "go with the flow". I’m just that kind of person.
I would also like the feel I’m using my education and I’m not sure to what extent that would be true in retail. I defiantly want people to care about the work I do; it is always better working with like minded people. Although it has been pointed out the quality of staff in any profession is variable. However, I felt far more in tune with the consultants I talked to than with Aldi.
I think my mind is made up tbh
I would love to say that my relationship will stand up to me not being at uni anymore. Only time will tell, it feels solid, gf still has another two years of med school then rotations etc. I would far rather be proactive than "go with the flow". I’m just that kind of person.
Thanks guy’s excellent responses (essp bga for answering all my questions!)
PH really is an amazing place to find such a huge variety of information. Time to sit back and let everything sink in again!
Besides, my house mates have informed me yesterday was an exams celebration (despite the fact I do not remember paying for many drinks..) so they are taking me out, pub, movie and have dinner for my bday woohoo life seems good atm.
Regards exercise, I guess you need to force yourself to get out and get moving, (easier said than done I know) not have you fifth steak and chips and then go to bed.
(essp bga for answering all my questions!) PH really is an amazing place to find such a huge variety of information. Time to sit back and let everything sink in again!
Besides, my house mates have informed me yesterday was an exams celebration (despite the fact I do not remember paying for many drinks..) so they are taking me out, pub, movie and have dinner for my bday
woohoo life seems good atm. Regards exercise, I guess you need to force yourself to get out and get moving, (easier said than done I know) not have you fifth steak and chips and then go to bed.
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