Will Tony cave in on the EU rebate?
Discussion
k off Chirac... 
Personally, I can see both sides here. "Our" Tone' is taking the Thatcherite (Neo Liberalism) line. (For believe it or not, there is little difference).
The Europeans on the other hand, and Chirac, still have the social structure that we have destroyed in the "rush to profits era" of the 80's. You must remember that THIS, is why WE the "BRITS" go there for our Hols every year. They still have, what WE threw away!
make no mistake about it, WE, i.e. Tony, is asking the EU to follow a "Thatcherite revolution" which failed here years ago, HE, a Labour Prime Minister, is defending a right wing doctrine that if?........they go down the same road as us! WILL inherit the same crime wave and social costs as us. i.e. They will NEED to raise taxes to pay for the rise in crime and need for more policing that we are now in.
On the other hand, If you KEEP your social structure to prevent this: The power of the globalist market will destroy you. Your choice!
The question is of course: "How LOW are YOU prepared to sink?" Would you rather have a SAFE society? or a profitable (for some)jungle (dog eat dog) world? What's the lowest wage, or level of freedom or crime that YOU would accept before revolting?
I don't think that it's really a simple case of: Labour or Conservative? anymore, and that's what the polls here in the UK show.
>> Edited by 8Pack on Wednesday 15th June 04:11
The Europeans on the other hand, and Chirac, still have the social structure that we have destroyed in the "rush to profits era" of the 80's. You must remember that THIS, is why WE the "BRITS" go there for our Hols every year. They still have, what WE threw away!
make no mistake about it, WE, i.e. Tony, is asking the EU to follow a "Thatcherite revolution" which failed here years ago, HE, a Labour Prime Minister, is defending a right wing doctrine that if?........they go down the same road as us! WILL inherit the same crime wave and social costs as us. i.e. They will NEED to raise taxes to pay for the rise in crime and need for more policing that we are now in.
On the other hand, If you KEEP your social structure to prevent this: The power of the globalist market will destroy you. Your choice!
The question is of course: "How LOW are YOU prepared to sink?" Would you rather have a SAFE society? or a profitable (for some)jungle (dog eat dog) world? What's the lowest wage, or level of freedom or crime that YOU would accept before revolting?
I don't think that it's really a simple case of: Labour or Conservative? anymore, and that's what the polls here in the UK show.
>> Edited by 8Pack on Wednesday 15th June 04:11
Good post 8pack. France have what is generally regarded as the best health service in the world.
Flip side of the coin is why should other countries subsidise their welfare state? Especially since they seem very happy to be a hopping-off point to the UK for economic migrants. I believe our welfare state needs the money more than theirs.
My answer to the OP is that Phoney bLiar doesn't have the strength of Maggie to resist the erosion of our rebate - although I am happy to be proven wrong.
Flip side of the coin is why should other countries subsidise their welfare state? Especially since they seem very happy to be a hopping-off point to the UK for economic migrants. I believe our welfare state needs the money more than theirs.
My answer to the OP is that Phoney bLiar doesn't have the strength of Maggie to resist the erosion of our rebate - although I am happy to be proven wrong.
I would be happy to give us the rebate for the right to a full budget renegoiation. It seems to me that the CAP was set up to keep the farmers of 'old Europe' (UK included) in jobs in case we ever need their capacity again. In fact it fils the coffers of large industrial scale farmers and leaves the small farmer to live on on the crumbs from the table. I am happy to pay for farmers to look after the countryside in whatever way, but not to fund the stockmarklet price of large producers. I fear tthat as the EU grows the bandwagon and perversity of producing food for the sake of it will grow to, as farmers in the new states get on the gravy train, or more likely, large companies but up large tracts of cheap farming land in the new states to do more of the same thing.
Any PH farmers (and I mean farmers not landowners here!) out there with an opinion?
Any PH farmers (and I mean farmers not landowners here!) out there with an opinion?
We get NOTHING back from the EU except the rebate.
The French, Irish, Portuguese, Spanish even the Germans have huge inferstructure projects that are either part or fully funded by the EU.
When was the last time you saw a new motorway or dual carriageway being built on the UK?
Go to any of the above and see the building that is going on and all the signs say "Funded by the EU"
The French, Irish, Portuguese, Spanish even the Germans have huge inferstructure projects that are either part or fully funded by the EU.
When was the last time you saw a new motorway or dual carriageway being built on the UK?
Go to any of the above and see the building that is going on and all the signs say "Funded by the EU"
Apart the 122,000 hits you get when you search for EU-funded project UK in Google, you mean? www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&scoring=d&q=eu-funded+project+uk&btnG=Search&meta=
Chirac: There you go Tony my boy [hands over brown envelope]
Blair: What's this?
Chirac: Open it up and see!
Blair: Ummm, ok. [Opens envelope. Inside is a ticket, which reads: "You are hereby invited to become figurehead European president on your retirement as British Prime Minister."]
Blair: Oooh...
Chirac: Now Tony, about that rebate...
Blair: Rebate? What rebate?
Blair: What's this?
Chirac: Open it up and see!
Blair: Ummm, ok. [Opens envelope. Inside is a ticket, which reads: "You are hereby invited to become figurehead European president on your retirement as British Prime Minister."]
Blair: Oooh...
Chirac: Now Tony, about that rebate...
Blair: Rebate? What rebate?
judas said:
Chirac: There you go Tony my boy [hands over brown envelope]
Blair: What's this?
Chirac: Open it up and see!
Blair: Ummm, ok. [Opens envelope. Inside is a ticket, which reads: "You are hereby invited to become figurehead European president on your retirement as British Prime Minister."]
Blair: Oooh...
Chirac: Now Tony, about that rebate...
Blair: Rebate? What rebate?
I wouldn't bet against it...
8Pack said:
The Europeans on the other hand, and Chirac, still have the social structure that we have destroyed in the "rush to profits era" of the 80's. You must remember that THIS, is why WE the "BRITS" go there for our Hols every year. They still have, what WE threw away!
yes, but we dont go holidaying in the slums of paris. nor do the french visit the slums of london as part of their tour of london. seriously - how many open top buses do you see in brixton or hackney or any other sink estate in the capital? the french have their own problems.
i hope the basis of your post isn't entirely based on what you see on TV, cause France does have its slums, it does have its own social problems, it has union power that screws around at the drop of the hat. a company director only has to fart and they go on strike.
but don't let reality cloud your judgement of the utopia down south.
8Pack said:
make no mistake about it, WE, i.e. Tony, is asking the EU to follow a "Thatcherite revolution" which failed here years ago, HE, a Labour Prime Minister, is defending a right wing doctrine that if?........they go down the same road as us! WILL inherit the same crime wave and social costs as us. i.e. They will NEED to raise taxes to pay for the rise in crime and need for more policing that we are now in.
yes, that damn Thatherite revolution that failed took us from the brink of being flushed down the toilet of uselessness to one the richest nations in Europe.
it was a damn failure I totally agree.
you seem to forget that wealth and social justice are not the same as the liberal policy towards punishment. punishment like prison may not work - but it gives society a break from constant threat of being done over.
crime costs are increasing because we dont jail people, we tell them off with stern words, tag them, and let them back onto the street to reoffend.
this means that crime continues to rise, which in turn costs the nation more and we continue to employ more police to catch the ever growing population of criminals.
a tough policy on crime gets results cause whilst they are in jail they simply cant mug someone. if they cant mug someone, they don't need to be caught again and nor do they need the cost of a trial.
Please see the Givers vs Takers graph on this article, if we have to give back the 3 Billion as well look at where we will be!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4094720.stm
Why are Spain getting so much? There not exactly a "developing" nation are they FFS!
What is going to happen with all the real developing nations joining the EU, can you imagine how much we are all going to have to give?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4094720.stm
Why are Spain getting so much? There not exactly a "developing" nation are they FFS!
What is going to happen with all the real developing nations joining the EU, can you imagine how much we are all going to have to give?
vetteheadracer said:
Please see the Givers vs Takers graph on this article, if we have to give back the 3 Billion as well look at where we will be!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4094720.stm
Why are Spain getting so much? There not exactly a "developing" nation are they FFS!
What is going to happen with all the real developing nations joining the EU, can you imagine how much we are all going to have to give?
Also if you break that down on a per captia basis I'd be very pi**ed off if I were a Dutch citizen right now.
Remember last week (or so) anyone???
"We need a moment of reflection" was the quote from the Eurocrats.
Well the've had their moment of reflection and in that time they have stagemanaged a CRISIS to divert attention from the real issue of the EU constitution.
As George Gallway put it "this is the mother of all smokescreens"
you wait and see....
MoJo.
"We need a moment of reflection" was the quote from the Eurocrats.
Well the've had their moment of reflection and in that time they have stagemanaged a CRISIS to divert attention from the real issue of the EU constitution.
As George Gallway put it "this is the mother of all smokescreens"
you wait and see....
MoJo.
manek said:
Apart the 122,000 hits you get when you search for EU-funded project UK in Google, you mean? www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&scoring=d&q=eu-funded+project+uk&btnG=Search&meta=
Try not to forget that as nett contributers we are only getting back money we have already paid in.Now,who is funding all these projects?
Its only recently with all the news coverage that i've realised we arent that badly off really - in terms of contributions the Germans make far greater than we do, and receive minimal subsidies back. They also have a crippled economy, 9% unemployment [up to 25% in parts of the old east] and masses of asylum seekers. two things:
1. What are we complaining about!?
2. Why try and link ourselves economically with a stagnant European economy?
1. What are we complaining about!?
2. Why try and link ourselves economically with a stagnant European economy?
They had a pretty good article on the news here in Finland the other day. Went into the background about the rebate and why its such a "big thing". Well, basically it isnt. We pay significantly over the odds into the EU incomparison with other nations (actually not that much more, but other countries get a considerable amount back in the form of subs and grants etc). So the Nett amount is pretty equal with the rebate in comparison with German and France - being the closest in size, population and economy. So, well done Thatcher for getting it in the first place.
Will Tone cave in? Doubt it - its a VERY hot topic and a considerable percentage of the population dont like so much money being thrown at them in the first place. He wouldnt risk playing into the hands of the anti-EU groups, its a dangerous game. That said, the comments on the news here were pretty good. Why is Chirac doing this?
Cos he's got a pretty big issue at home. Yes it forces the discussion about the common agri policy, but its better to do that than discuss the recent failure to pass the EU constitution! Its political re-direction a la Derren Brown... pretty good given the amount of publicity that it has generated away from France and onto the UK. France is stuck between a rock and a hard place - and Chirac knows it. If he wants to move on from the recent referendum failure then he needs to address the EU budget, common agri policy and country funding - and the fact that France does EXTREMELY well out of this and that no one else does! Bigger fish here and the rebate is just being used as a pawn by Chirac.
I can see the rebate going at some point. In typical French style, they have managed to get the funding for it from the new assension (sp?) states - i.e. the ones just joining. Seems pretty sneaky if you ask me. Get all those poorer, eastern European nations to cough up for our rebate. Its just political by the French to try and get additional support against it..... but it is easily countered by the UK (and others including Ireland and others) who gently remind the French that they get whopping great subsidies back to support an industry which is pathetically uncompetitive in the EU market (never mind the world!).
Nah, rebate stays....
Will Tone cave in? Doubt it - its a VERY hot topic and a considerable percentage of the population dont like so much money being thrown at them in the first place. He wouldnt risk playing into the hands of the anti-EU groups, its a dangerous game. That said, the comments on the news here were pretty good. Why is Chirac doing this?
Cos he's got a pretty big issue at home. Yes it forces the discussion about the common agri policy, but its better to do that than discuss the recent failure to pass the EU constitution! Its political re-direction a la Derren Brown... pretty good given the amount of publicity that it has generated away from France and onto the UK. France is stuck between a rock and a hard place - and Chirac knows it. If he wants to move on from the recent referendum failure then he needs to address the EU budget, common agri policy and country funding - and the fact that France does EXTREMELY well out of this and that no one else does! Bigger fish here and the rebate is just being used as a pawn by Chirac.
I can see the rebate going at some point. In typical French style, they have managed to get the funding for it from the new assension (sp?) states - i.e. the ones just joining. Seems pretty sneaky if you ask me. Get all those poorer, eastern European nations to cough up for our rebate. Its just political by the French to try and get additional support against it..... but it is easily countered by the UK (and others including Ireland and others) who gently remind the French that they get whopping great subsidies back to support an industry which is pathetically uncompetitive in the EU market (never mind the world!).
Nah, rebate stays....
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