University degrees

[8]

Following on from twincam's jobhunting thread,

How important is the nature of a degree? Obviously it would be daft to try and get into engineering with a politics degree but is it possible to get a versatile degree? Is your grade important? Is it really worth the extra effort to get a first?

I've just finished my third year at uni and I'll have to choose between a 4yr B.Eng or a 5yr M.Eng (If my grades are good enough).

At the moment I think I'll do the Masters if I get the chance, even though I'd rather not because I'm bored of my course. I just don't fancy regretting it in a few years time. My ultimate goal is to work in formula 1, so I think the masters would be worthwhile.

What are your thoughts?

[poptosis]

Masters is the new degree. Any chump can get a degree these days. Doing a masters shows that you are serious about a subject and have commitment.

[alexkp]

There are too many Batchelors graduates around these days. A Masters is now the real differentiator.

[Lois]

I'm doing a degree at the moment. Mine's pretty specialised and part vocational but I can top up to branch into other things and go on to do masters and PhD.

I dont know much from the employers POV in reguards to the difference between a 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc but I guess if it came down to picking between two equal candidates in other areas it might just swing it.

[davidy]

I turned down the opportunity of doing a Masters followed by then a PhD. The material I was offered (and the company potentially sponsoring it) just wasn't that interesting.

Never regretted it as I am not one to look back and think I wish... 20 years on I haven't even thought about it (until you asked!)

Make the decision thats right for you at the time and then move on. If you're one of life's worriers then you won't get selected for F1 jobs anyway, where they want hard fast decisions. In F1 you stand on your judgements. (I've done contract work for a couple of the teams in the past, and if you made a wrong decision you were probably out on your ear)

Does that help?

davidy

[whirlycooler]

Sign up for the MEng (5 years? Scotland or gap year). You can always move to BEng later. If you sign up to a uni which only does BEng you are kinda stuck.

Most people I know who went for the BEng are now doing later Masters courses.

F1 is the aim of probably 15% of graduate Engineers, not many make it. Best advise for trying for this kind of job is to aim for a traditional uni and try to develop related hobbies as well (ie get involved with grass roots motorsport). It will also aid you uni course no end, as you can start to think like an engineer, not just a university engineering lecturer (Completely different things!!!).

[dilbert]

Another thing to think about is work availability.

If there's loads of the right work, go and earn some dosh. If not it could be worth staying on to polish up the qualifications.

[bga]

From what I have seen an engineering Batchelors gives you a huge field of potential diversification & a Masters if you want to go specialist.

Out of the grads I have interviewed over the last 12 months the ones who did a sandwich placement when at Uni had the edge over those with a Masters (usually non-related) as they don't need to get used to the work environment & we can usually get them in front of clients earlier. I've found no discernable difference in ability after 6 months or so.

[off_again]

Depends what you area you want to work in.... but to be honest its mainly about experience and attitude. If you have a degree then great, but thats a door opener (not masters or phd).... In the field I work in....

That is not to say that its not required in other areas. But if it is a degree, make sure its a relevant one which has some meaning in the real world.... but thats obvious.

[alexkp]

davidy said:

I turned down the opportunity of doing a Masters followed by then a PhD. The material I was offered (and the company potentially sponsoring it) just wasn't that interesting. Never regretted it as I am not one to look back and think I wish... 20 years on I haven't even thought about it (until you asked!) Make the decision thats right for you at the time and then move on. If you're one of life's worriers then you won't get selected for F1 jobs anyway, where they want hard fast decisions. In F1 you stand on your judgements. (I've done contract work for a couple of the teams in the past, and if you made a wrong decision you were probably out on your ear) Does that help? davidy

You are right - twenty years ago it didn't really matter, as far fewer people were getting Batchelor's Degrees.

[D_Mike]

I have an MChem and am now studying for my PhD. I love it... I think a masters/PhD. does differentiate you more from the crowd... however so would a bit of work experience... I chose to do my PhD for the reason that I really really (to the extent that most people would consider me "sad" enjoy chemistry. I think at the end of it I will have several things to be proud of... hopefully a few papers, a big fat book written by me, and also a PhD. It sort of demonstrates a lot of skills to anyone who is looking to employ you.

I think science graduates probably have greater options in terms of what career they want to go into, as they don't exclude the numerate things as would, say, a history or english degree.

[8]

whirlycooler said:

Sign up for the MEng (5 years? Scotland or gap year). You can always move to BEng later. If you sign up to a uni which only does BEng you are kinda stuck. Most people I know who went for the BEng are now doing later Masters courses. F1 is the aim of probably 15% of graduate Engineers, not many make it. Best advise for trying for this kind of job is to aim for a traditional uni and try to develop related hobbies as well (ie get involved with grass roots motorsport). It will also aid you uni course no end, as you can start to think like an engineer, not just a university engineering lecturer (Completely different things!!!).

I'm in Scotland, which is why it's 5 years for the Masters.

The main reason I don't really fancy the extra year is because all we seem to do is theoretical nonsense. I think most of the stuff we do has been made up by the lecturers for the hell of it! I would love to actually start doing some proper engineering. I think I will have to start focusing on exactly what I want do pretty soon.

I have a contact in a formula 1 team who is graduate of my course, might be time I asked him a few more questions.

[DJ111S]

I think you have to have an MEng to be a CEng now.

[D_Mike]

Oh yes... also, now that so many people are going to university I don't think a 2.i is enough... it needs to be a 2.i from a good university.

[simpo two]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Any employer with a degree will know that as far as Honours degrees are concerned, a First is a bit special, whilst a 3rd is the 'gentleman's degree'. Below that is a 'pass' (no honours) is a polite fail. The vast majority of degrees are 2.1s and 2.2s. However, the University and the subject makes a BIG difference; eg Mathematics from Cambridge vs Carnival Studies from Brixton...

As for F1, I guess that for every job, there are about 5,000 candidates; how do you put yourself top of the list? (I don't know the answer; if I did I'd be Bernie E!)

[8]

DJ111S said:

I think you have to have an MEng to be a CEng now.

Very true. Good idea to keep options open I suppose.

D_Mike said:

Oh yes... also, now that so many people are going to university I don't think a 2.i is enough... it needs to be a 2.i from a good university.

I'm at Glasgow and I think it rates quite highly. The aero degree here won't be as highly rated as Loughborough's though.

I intend to really knuckle down next year to get a first. I feel I have the ability and the only thing likely to hold me back is a lax attitude. I would certainly regret not getting a first if I hadn't tried hard enough.

[MilnerR]

One thing you have to bear in mind is that in order to get funding on a masters or PhD you will need at least a 2:1 degree. I was fortunate enough to get funding for both my masters and my PhD, if i hadn't i wouldn't have done it. The debt you accrue isn't really worth it.

Another important point is that you really have to love your subject. You will work massively long hours and be constantly skint (even with funding). During my masters i got the tuition fees paid and a stipend of £7500 a year (tax free) during my PhD i got the tuition and lab fees paid plus £9500 per year. For these meagre amounts i was working 60 - 80 hours per week for 50 weeks of the year. These post graduate studies are nothing like undergraduate courses.....

[wizzpig]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yep, that's right. Bachelors degrees are almost 10 a penny these days. Masters are prefered or better still a Phd

[Twincam16]

If I did a Master's in politics, I would get locked into a cycle of academia. In my intended fields of work, I would be overqualified and lacking in experience for my age. In my case it actually limits my prospects depending on what I want to go into. My only options would be to write academic papers, give lectures and disappear into poorly-paid obscurity.

I do get rather irked when science types knock the value of humanities degrees. Yes, a science degree is subject-specific and there are jobs that they literally lead straight into, an arts/humanities degree represents an academic standard, the ability to research to a particular depth and intricacy, the ability to argue a case and manage resources, and certain degrees have qualities that are valuable to employers - Politics, for example, involves a large degree of management qualities.

[simpo two]

MilnerR said:

For these meagre amounts i was working 60 - 80 hours per week for 50 weeks of the year. These post graduate studies are nothing like undergraduate courses.....

Yep. When I graduated I got the then-above-average salary of £8,250 + company car. By contrast a friend who chose to do a PhD got £5,300. I was accepted to do an MSc at Cranfield but bailed out because frankly, after getting my degree, I'd had enough of learning for pocket money and wanted to get out and do/earn something. So Milner's pont about dedication is very, very true. All credit to any PhD's here; I just couldn't face it.