Are 105 Twinairs a bit laggy?
Discussion
Hi all,
Looking at either an older 1.4 500 or a newer 105 Twinair. Purely for short-hop city driving. Lots of journeys of a mile or two. Almost exclusively London Zone 2, 1.5k miles a year.
I drove my sisters Fiesta Ecoboost the other day and found I had to consciously drive around the lag in stop-start traffic.
Given that would I be better saving a few grand and getting a 1.4?
Thoughts?
Looking at either an older 1.4 500 or a newer 105 Twinair. Purely for short-hop city driving. Lots of journeys of a mile or two. Almost exclusively London Zone 2, 1.5k miles a year.
I drove my sisters Fiesta Ecoboost the other day and found I had to consciously drive around the lag in stop-start traffic.
Given that would I be better saving a few grand and getting a 1.4?
Thoughts?
When you say 'lag' do you actually mean lag? Or are you talking about boost threshold?
The specifics are the volume of exhaust gas produed, the turbochargers .AR, the volume of the boost piping/intercooler, and the reaction time of the ECU - these factors will vary wildly from car to car.
As with any vehicle, you need to be in the correct gear to make best progress.
The specifics are the volume of exhaust gas produed, the turbochargers .AR, the volume of the boost piping/intercooler, and the reaction time of the ECU - these factors will vary wildly from car to car.
As with any vehicle, you need to be in the correct gear to make best progress.
Twin airs are VERY hit and miss and prefer big miles, they eat spark plugs and need very specific oil and regularly at that. Have you considered its siblings the Panda and the 2008-2016 Ford Ka? The Panda is much more practical and with the 1200cc engine in eu5 form (run away from the eu6) pretty damn good, the KA comes with 500's chassis/drivetrain but Fords own engine also used in lesser forms of that periods Fiesta.
Olas said:
When you say 'lag' do you actually mean lag? Or are you talking about boost threshold?
The specifics are the volume of exhaust gas produed, the turbochargers .AR, the volume of the boost piping/intercooler, and the reaction time of the ECU - these factors will vary wildly from car to car.
As with any vehicle, you need to be in the correct gear to make best progress.
Probably I mean boost threshold ie the fact that below 1k, for example, there's nothing. Then the turbo spins up and suddenly there's torque.The specifics are the volume of exhaust gas produed, the turbochargers .AR, the volume of the boost piping/intercooler, and the reaction time of the ECU - these factors will vary wildly from car to car.
As with any vehicle, you need to be in the correct gear to make best progress.
I've had turbo's myself in the past and have had a few hire cars etc recently and they're fine on the open road - fun to row along on the swell of torque But they don't work so well in constant stop start traffic when you have to get to the boost threshold each time you set off.
My wife's old Cio has a large-ish (1.6) n/a petrol and it pulls cleanly pretty much from tickover. I suspect the 1.4 would be similar.
A500leroy said:
Twin airs are VERY hit and miss and prefer big miles, they eat spark plugs and need very specific oil and regularly at that. Have you considered its siblings the Panda and the 2008-2016 Ford Ka? The Panda is much more practical and with the 1200cc engine in eu5 form (run away from the eu6) pretty damn good, the KA comes with 500's chassis/drivetrain but Fords own engine also used in lesser forms of that periods Fiesta.
Yes, the Twinairs make me a little nervous for those reasons. Didn't know they liked to be used - that's not likely to happen with this requirement.I've tried really hard to persuade the Mrs to look at Pandas but she's hooked on the 500's style.
Hadn't thought about the Ka - will have a look. But the Mrs has a thing about the brand.
Don't ask. See other threads about me trying to encourage her to look at all manner for alternatives. I've given up :-)
If you absolutely want a 500, may i suggest you look at the 500 's' , its basically an Abarth style bodykit and interior but with the 1.2 engine.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
A500leroy said:
If you absolutely want a 500, may i suggest you look at the 500 's' , its basically an Abarth style bodykit and interior but with the 1.2 engine.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Yes, I've been looking at S's. Love the interior of that one.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
What's the 1.2 like round town? Nippy?
TBH it would be great if the answer was "1.2" as there are thousands of them to choose from.
Far fewer Twinairs, even fewer 105's and 1.4's.
Ideally you need euro 5 as the euro 6 took a bhp loss to get through via engine mapping.
Its not the quickest thing in the world but for town/city driving its perfectly italian.Fiat even took the effort to make the 1.2 sound italian as well,and because the 1.2 can trace its history back to the 1980s (albeit with updates) its very well sorted and well known as a simple engine to work with. Any parts you need look at shop4parts as they do oem stuff at a massive discount.
Its not the quickest thing in the world but for town/city driving its perfectly italian.Fiat even took the effort to make the 1.2 sound italian as well,and because the 1.2 can trace its history back to the 1980s (albeit with updates) its very well sorted and well known as a simple engine to work with. Any parts you need look at shop4parts as they do oem stuff at a massive discount.
A500leroy said:
Ideally you need euro 5 as the euro 6 took a bhp loss to get through via engine mapping.
Its not the quickest thing in the world but for town/city driving its perfectly italian.Fiat even took the effort to make the 1.2 sound italian as well,and because the 1.2 can trace its history back to the 1980s (albeit with updates) its very well sorted and well known as a simple engine to work with. Any parts you need look at shop4parts as they do oem stuff at a massive discount.
"Its not the quickest thing in the world but for town/city driving its perfectly italian".Its not the quickest thing in the world but for town/city driving its perfectly italian.Fiat even took the effort to make the 1.2 sound italian as well,and because the 1.2 can trace its history back to the 1980s (albeit with updates) its very well sorted and well known as a simple engine to work with. Any parts you need look at shop4parts as they do oem stuff at a massive discount.
LOL. Love it. Someone on here told me it's descended from the FIRE engine which IIRC first appeared in the Uno?
I'll take one out and see what's what.
I grew up on small revvy Italian cars and fancy a bit more of that.
I've got an E Class for the other stuff so the smaller and more Italian the better.
A500leroy said:
Yes thats correct info, its the engine from the uno/punto updated.
Just picked the old Clio up from the local garage. They like 1.2's there. One of the mech's dad had one and he thought it was fine round town. He reckoned 1.2's were reasonably bomb-proof bar the odd gearbox issue.
Do you know roughly when the switch from Euro 5 to 6 happened?
I think the relevant take away on them is how narrow the powerband is, especially if you are seeking to maximise efficiency.
I have a TA 105 and it has plenty of power for city use ( London burbs ) and is decent for motorway runs although it is outside its max efficiency point at 70mph.
Lots of gearbox use but not because of lag.
I have a TA 105 and it has plenty of power for city use ( London burbs ) and is decent for motorway runs although it is outside its max efficiency point at 70mph.
Lots of gearbox use but not because of lag.
AC43 said:
A500leroy said:
Yes thats correct info, its the engine from the uno/punto updated.
Just picked the old Clio up from the local garage. They like 1.2's there. One of the mech's dad had one and he thought it was fine round town. He reckoned 1.2's were reasonably bomb-proof bar the odd gearbox issue.
Do you know roughly when the switch from Euro 5 to 6 happened?
A500leroy said:
AC43 said:
A500leroy said:
Yes thats correct info, its the engine from the uno/punto updated.
Just picked the old Clio up from the local garage. They like 1.2's there. One of the mech's dad had one and he thought it was fine round town. He reckoned 1.2's were reasonably bomb-proof bar the odd gearbox issue.
Do you know roughly when the switch from Euro 5 to 6 happened?
Zed Ed said:
I think the relevant take away on them is how narrow the powerband is, especially if you are seeking to maximise efficiency.
I have a TA 105 and it has plenty of power for city use ( London burbs ) and is decent for motorway runs although it is outside its max efficiency point at 70mph.
Lots of gearbox use but not because of lag.
Efficiency isn't a biggie when it's doing 20-30 miles a week. I have a TA 105 and it has plenty of power for city use ( London burbs ) and is decent for motorway runs although it is outside its max efficiency point at 70mph.
Lots of gearbox use but not because of lag.
Clarkson though the 105 was a hoot in town apparently.
I don't mind changing gear. Actually like the contrast with my other car, a V8 slusher.
I appreciate all the answers.
Must find the time to get some test drives in.
we have a 2017 1.2 in S trim, I like it, its nippy enough around town, and happy enough at speed limit on motorways etc, although overtaking takes a bit of planning. Its averaged 46.3mpg over 30k miles mostly multilane commuting.
I test drove some twin air 85s before buying ours, they were a lot more fun to drive, but looking at cars that were 5 years old at the time, I struggled to find one where both door handles works and had a fully functioning dashboard. so went ex demo, but there weren't any twin airs about at the time.
I test drove some twin air 85s before buying ours, they were a lot more fun to drive, but looking at cars that were 5 years old at the time, I struggled to find one where both door handles works and had a fully functioning dashboard. so went ex demo, but there weren't any twin airs about at the time.
sawman said:
we have a 2017 1.2 in S trim, I like it, its nippy enough around town, and happy enough at speed limit on motorways etc, although overtaking takes a bit of planning. Its averaged 46.3mpg over 30k miles mostly multilane commuting.
I test drove some twin air 85s before buying ours, they were a lot more fun to drive, but looking at cars that were 5 years old at the time, I struggled to find one where both door handles works and had a fully functioning dashboard. so went ex demo, but there weren't any twin airs about at the time.
ThanksI test drove some twin air 85s before buying ours, they were a lot more fun to drive, but looking at cars that were 5 years old at the time, I struggled to find one where both door handles works and had a fully functioning dashboard. so went ex demo, but there weren't any twin airs about at the time.
sawman said:
we have a 2017 1.2 in S trim, I like it, its nippy enough around town, and happy enough at speed limit on motorways
If I can get on with a 1.2 the S is a great shout. Great interior (which is toward the top of my wifes requirements).Strangely, hardly any have a sunroof. When hundreds of the lower specced ones have them.
Anyway, first world problems, should buy a new car, etc.
AC43 said:
sawman said:
we have a 2017 1.2 in S trim, I like it, its nippy enough around town, and happy enough at speed limit on motorways
If I can get on with a 1.2 the S is a great shout. Great interior (which is toward the top of my wifes requirements).Strangely, hardly any have a sunroof. When hundreds of the lower specced ones have them.
Anyway, first world problems, should buy a new car, etc.
A500leroy said:
AC43 said:
sawman said:
we have a 2017 1.2 in S trim, I like it, its nippy enough around town, and happy enough at speed limit on motorways
If I can get on with a 1.2 the S is a great shout. Great interior (which is toward the top of my wifes requirements).Strangely, hardly any have a sunroof. When hundreds of the lower specced ones have them.
Anyway, first world problems, should buy a new car, etc.
TBH I just like a glass sunroof. Had one continuously on my main car from 1999 to 2017. Had to forgo it on my current one and miss having it.
To be fair I could get a blue or grey Lounge with one easily enough. But then it's the cloth seats as very few folks went for leather.
S's with sunroofs do exist. Might just have to wait a bit.
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