What to pay for an EP3 in 2020?
Discussion
Just wondering what people are paying for decent EP3s these days. They appear to have gone up a bit since I last thought seriously about buying one, in 2016 but big variations in prices between, say an early pre facelift and an anniversary edition model.
I've seen this one for sale near me (see link below) - its a pre facelift model with below average miles and seems a bit pricey, but is it? I imagine you probably won't lose much money at this point, buying now and selling after a few years...
Also wondering what people think about high mileage cars - i.e over 125K sort of mileage. They're cheap, but are they worn out by that stage? Do the engines still retain decent BHP when old? I read somewhere they can be down to 180BHP by 80K miles!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
£4k for a pre facelift is too much, even in mint condition. But that's just my opinion. To determine the true value, find some on ebay that are up for auction and see what they sell for and that will give an indication of what you should be paying.
I think they bottomoed out and since crept up a little, but cant see them rising rapidly in the near future.
With a car like this and of this age you should always buy on condition rather than mileage. I've had a few vtec cars and the higher mileage ones always felt noticeably zippier, so i don't they lose power with age at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
I think they bottomoed out and since crept up a little, but cant see them rising rapidly in the near future.
With a car like this and of this age you should always buy on condition rather than mileage. I've had a few vtec cars and the higher mileage ones always felt noticeably zippier, so i don't they lose power with age at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
croissant said:
£4k for a pre facelift is too much, even in mint condition. But that's just my opinion. To determine the true value, find some on ebay that are up for auction and see what they sell for and that will give an indication of what you should be paying.
I think they bottomoed out and since crept up a little, but cant see them rising rapidly in the near future.
With a car like this and of this age you should always buy on condition rather than mileage. I've had a few vtec cars and the higher mileage ones always felt noticeably zippier, so i don't they lose power with age at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
Yeah, I was thinking nearer £3K for a pre-facelift with that mileage. I'll take a look at Ebay later.I think they bottomoed out and since crept up a little, but cant see them rising rapidly in the near future.
With a car like this and of this age you should always buy on condition rather than mileage. I've had a few vtec cars and the higher mileage ones always felt noticeably zippier, so i don't they lose power with age at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
What sort of mileage were the higher mileage ones you drove? I must admit, I don't fear higher mileage cars at all, my old petrol Mazda 6 seemed faster when I sold it at 130,000 miles than when I bought it at 91,000! Perhaps its a Jap car thing, although I've read similar comments about Clio 182s getting stronger with miles. BTW, I cant decide between the Civic and the Clio. I basically really fancy an old school n/a hot hatch, whilst they're still attainable...
greenarrow said:
Yeah, I was thinking nearer £3K for a pre-facelift with that mileage. I'll take a look at Ebay later.
What sort of mileage were the higher mileage ones you drove? I must admit, I don't fear higher mileage cars at all, my old petrol Mazda 6 seemed faster when I sold it at 130,000 miles than when I bought it at 91,000! Perhaps its a Jap car thing, although I've read similar comments about Clio 182s getting stronger with miles. BTW, I cant decide between the Civic and the Clio. I basically really fancy an old school n/a hot hatch, whilst they're still attainable...
I am in a similar position to you, got £2-3k burning a hole and want a dependable hot hatch that I can use on the odd track day and around town. Clios and Civic type r's do seem the best choice, but the clios seem a little more fragile.What sort of mileage were the higher mileage ones you drove? I must admit, I don't fear higher mileage cars at all, my old petrol Mazda 6 seemed faster when I sold it at 130,000 miles than when I bought it at 91,000! Perhaps its a Jap car thing, although I've read similar comments about Clio 182s getting stronger with miles. BTW, I cant decide between the Civic and the Clio. I basically really fancy an old school n/a hot hatch, whilst they're still attainable...
I've been considering the FN2 type r also, they have really come down in price yet still seem like a hoot.
Also the clio 197's but I don't know much about these.
The vtecs i had were a 150k mile b18 dc2 and that was very quick. I had driven a 60k mile dc2 around the same time and it was noticeably slower.
Also had a 110k civic with a b16. And that also went like a little rocket. The only thing about high miler vtecs is that they can burn a little more oil.
Wouldn't spend that much on an EP3. You can get one for half that price. I understand its low mileage and in mint condition but if you have an accident in it then it's getting wrote off as the insurance company will see 2001 Honda Civic.
Personally I don't mind high mileage cars as long as they've been looked after. That's what you need to look out for, something that people have spend their money on.
Depending on what you want from the EP3 you could get an Mazda 3 MPS. Has good handling and decent power, as well as it's more modern. Don't get me wrong they drive fuel and the tax is a lot but overall it's a better car for day to day and the odd track session.
If you really do want an EP3 i'd look for a Premier Edition. It'll hold it's value more and I'd keep it standard or if you were to modify it keep the standard bits .
Personally I don't mind high mileage cars as long as they've been looked after. That's what you need to look out for, something that people have spend their money on.
Depending on what you want from the EP3 you could get an Mazda 3 MPS. Has good handling and decent power, as well as it's more modern. Don't get me wrong they drive fuel and the tax is a lot but overall it's a better car for day to day and the odd track session.
If you really do want an EP3 i'd look for a Premier Edition. It'll hold it's value more and I'd keep it standard or if you were to modify it keep the standard bits .
Ankh87 said:
Depending on what you want from the EP3 you could get an Mazda 3 MPS. Has good handling and decent power, as well as it's more modern. Don't get me wrong they drive fuel and the tax is a lot but overall it's a better car for day to day and the odd track session.
If you really do want an EP3 i'd look for a Premier Edition. It'll hold it's value more and I'd keep it standard or if you were to modify it keep the standard bits .
Ahh, the Mazda 3 MPS - if you look at my garage history you'll see I'm a bit of a Mazda fan, but for me there are two drawbacks with the MPS. Firstly, the cheaper ones are in the £555 per year (or whatever it is these days) VED bracket and secondly, all the reviews say that the power is concentrated in the 2000-4500 RPM bracket with not much beyond that. I like cars which keep pulling as the revs go beyond 6000..... even my current runaround shed Focus 1.6 enjoys a good thrash to 6500 RPM.If you really do want an EP3 i'd look for a Premier Edition. It'll hold it's value more and I'd keep it standard or if you were to modify it keep the standard bits .
In the cheap (likely future classic) hot hatch market, for me its always boiled down to three predictable options. 1) a Renaultsport Clio 2) a Civic Type R (EP3 or FN2) or 3) a Golf GTI MK5. These are the three that seem to always rate very highly on any owners based poll on best 2000 hot hatches. Yes I know the Golf is a torque based car, but its always been rated as a very good all round package.
Edited by greenarrow on Friday 28th February 13:58
I recommend AMR Motors in Huddersfield, I sold my old one to him and he gets quite a lot of nice examples in. EP3 Owners Club on Facebook is also a good place to be. I'd say £3k would get you into a nice example with good service history and pretty low mileage, but leave some room for a good set of tyres. Mine came with cheap tyres and they completely ruined the car for me.
greenarrow said:
Ahh, the Mazda 3 MPS - if you look at my garage history you'll see I'm a bit of a Mazda fan, but for me there are two drawbacks with the MPS. Firstly, the cheaper ones are in the £555 per year (or whatever it is these days) VED bracket and secondly, all the reviews say that the power is concentrated in the 2000-4500 RPM bracket with not much beyond that. I like cars which keep pulling as the revs go beyond 6000..... even my current runaround shed Focus 1.6 enjoys a good thrash to 6500 RPM.
In the cheap (likely future classic) hot hatch market, for me its always boiled down to three predictable options. 1) a Renaultsport Clio 2) a Civic Type R (EP3 or FN2) or 3) a Golf GTI MK5. These are the three that seem to always rate very highly on any owners based poll on best 2000 hot hatches. Yes I know the Golf is a torque based car, but its always been rated as a very good all round package.
Yeah the older ones have a silly tax price but I wouldn't care about that if buying a sports performance hatch. I'm sure the Civic is around £300 now-a-days so it's not much more. In the cheap (likely future classic) hot hatch market, for me its always boiled down to three predictable options. 1) a Renaultsport Clio 2) a Civic Type R (EP3 or FN2) or 3) a Golf GTI MK5. These are the three that seem to always rate very highly on any owners based poll on best 2000 hot hatches. Yes I know the Golf is a torque based car, but its always been rated as a very good all round package.
Edited by greenarrow on Friday 28th February 13:58
I've heard a remap is the best thing you can do to the MPS and changes the car to give it more revs to play with. Of course if you enjoy reving a car then NA is the best way to go.
Have you looked at Celica T Sports/GT? Or even a Corolla T Sport Compressor? They have VVTL-i which means they rev to 8000k plus they are much more rarer than any Civic. For £3k-£4k you'll get a good if not great example and the Celica GTs have the same power as the T Sport but have the Fast & Furious body kit which to me looks nicer.
If you look at the Celica 1st mod to do is get a 1zz Celica or MR2 sump as they are baffled as standard. Easy to change yourself and don't cost much at all.
Out of the 3 cars you mentioned the Civic is best. I've had a Mk5 GTi and standard form it's a boring car, nothing much to get excited about and doesn't feel as fast as the Civic. Clio is good and nimble but I feel it's a bit dated now.
Could always look for a Megan instead as they are meant to be better than the Clio?
I do like the Celica T Sport, almost bought one 3 years ago on an Ebay auction and got outbid, only got as far as driving it around the car park of the dealership doing the auction! For me, as a car that has to transport two teenage girls from time to time, the Celica back seats may be a little too compromised....ditto the Clio maybe too tiny too.
The T Sport Corolla I drove some years ago and it was a weird car...incredibly peaky engine and under-damped suspension was a strange mix. Now I know the V-Tecs are peaky too, but the Corolla really had absolutely nothing below about 6000 RPM! I guess the celica would be the same, although I think its a bit lighter and the chassis is good.
I've registered with the Facebook Ep3 for sale group, but notice it seems to be exactly the same cars that are for sale on Ebay. BTW, most are asking for around £2750-£3000 and the cheaper ones seem to be modded. I'm not sure at my age I really want an aftermarket big bore exhaust and lowered suspension!!
The T Sport Corolla I drove some years ago and it was a weird car...incredibly peaky engine and under-damped suspension was a strange mix. Now I know the V-Tecs are peaky too, but the Corolla really had absolutely nothing below about 6000 RPM! I guess the celica would be the same, although I think its a bit lighter and the chassis is good.
I've registered with the Facebook Ep3 for sale group, but notice it seems to be exactly the same cars that are for sale on Ebay. BTW, most are asking for around £2750-£3000 and the cheaper ones seem to be modded. I'm not sure at my age I really want an aftermarket big bore exhaust and lowered suspension!!
Our first ep3 we bought in 2006 , three years old with 44k on the clock , i looked after it an changed the oil every 8k. We put a 100k on that engine and felt as good as if not quicker the more the miles piled on.
Change out the chain and do the valve clearances, buy one with a lot of paperwork. Condition , rust is a clincher , back arches and the facelift models came with carpet in the rear arches. They hide a lot of nasty surprises. The filler for the fuel tank , filler pipe , that is a corrosive item.
If you can spend a bit more , then go JDM . Ive a white JDM now , its pretty dam mint.
2k will get you a daily , 4k will bag you a newer one. Just hard trying to find a un modded one nowadays. Bullet proof engines , i know a 650 brake one and my friend is running nearly 475 brake with a std gearbox and std internals. Albeit his mate miss shifted and blew a hole in his block.
Good luck! Ive ran ep3's since 2006.
Change out the chain and do the valve clearances, buy one with a lot of paperwork. Condition , rust is a clincher , back arches and the facelift models came with carpet in the rear arches. They hide a lot of nasty surprises. The filler for the fuel tank , filler pipe , that is a corrosive item.
If you can spend a bit more , then go JDM . Ive a white JDM now , its pretty dam mint.
2k will get you a daily , 4k will bag you a newer one. Just hard trying to find a un modded one nowadays. Bullet proof engines , i know a 650 brake one and my friend is running nearly 475 brake with a std gearbox and std internals. Albeit his mate miss shifted and blew a hole in his block.
Good luck! Ive ran ep3's since 2006.
The absolute best tip I can give you for buying an EP3 is look out for rust.
Whip the rear speakers out of the side trims (remove trim piece with a flat head and then 3x posi screws holding in the speaker) and poke your phone in there recording with the flash on. You'll see any rust that might be hidden and save yourself a lot of heartache and money.
2004+ 'facelift' tend to rust worse due to carpet liners in the rear arches, but are more valuable. Expect to pay anywhere from £2000-£6000 for a facelift.
Whip the rear speakers out of the side trims (remove trim piece with a flat head and then 3x posi screws holding in the speaker) and poke your phone in there recording with the flash on. You'll see any rust that might be hidden and save yourself a lot of heartache and money.
2004+ 'facelift' tend to rust worse due to carpet liners in the rear arches, but are more valuable. Expect to pay anywhere from £2000-£6000 for a facelift.
turbodicky said:
The absolute best tip I can give you for buying an EP3 is look out for rust.
Whip the rear speakers out of the side trims (remove trim piece with a flat head and then 3x posi screws holding in the speaker) and poke your phone in there recording with the flash on. You'll see any rust that might be hidden and save yourself a lot of heartache and money.
2004+ 'facelift' tend to rust worse due to carpet liners in the rear arches, but are more valuable. Expect to pay anywhere from £2000-£6000 for a facelift.
But bear in mind that all cars of this vintage will be showing signs of rust, not just CTR's or Honda's, so go in with your eyes open and have a budget to fix it if needs be. Whip the rear speakers out of the side trims (remove trim piece with a flat head and then 3x posi screws holding in the speaker) and poke your phone in there recording with the flash on. You'll see any rust that might be hidden and save yourself a lot of heartache and money.
2004+ 'facelift' tend to rust worse due to carpet liners in the rear arches, but are more valuable. Expect to pay anywhere from £2000-£6000 for a facelift.
To my eye the pre-facelift cars are much better looking. Less fussy. I bought one new in 2003 and loved it, apart from the odd feeling 'leccy steering and dodgy bridgestone's that came as standard. Once you get to know the car and grip on offer though, they are great fun.
30th Anniversary model would be my choice (unless you can stretch to a JDM model) but they are like hen's teeth.
It’s funny how rust can seemingly affect some cars but not others, mines an earlyish prefacelift and has zero rust on it. I’ve seen some facelifts that are completely rotted out.
As for values, they seem to be going up slightly. A nice early car is easily £2k now, later cars with nice ‘bits’ and you’re £4k. Some people asking lots for JDM/late low mileage premiers etc.
I think if I got mine painted and looking right I’d be wanting £7k for it. My insurance valuation was £6.5k this year which is pretty decent.
As for values, they seem to be going up slightly. A nice early car is easily £2k now, later cars with nice ‘bits’ and you’re £4k. Some people asking lots for JDM/late low mileage premiers etc.
I think if I got mine painted and looking right I’d be wanting £7k for it. My insurance valuation was £6.5k this year which is pretty decent.
Butter Face said:
It’s funny how rust can seemingly affect some cars but not others, mines an earlyish prefacelift and has zero rust on it. I’ve seen some facelifts that are completely rotted out.
As for values, they seem to be going up slightly. A nice early car is easily £2k now, later cars with nice ‘bits’ and you’re £4k. Some people asking lots for JDM/late low mileage premiers etc.
I think if I got mine painted and looking right I’d be wanting £7k for it. My insurance valuation was £6.5k this year which is pretty decent.
I think you might have offered to sell me yours when I last put up a topic like this in 2016! Bet you're glad you kept it.As for values, they seem to be going up slightly. A nice early car is easily £2k now, later cars with nice ‘bits’ and you’re £4k. Some people asking lots for JDM/late low mileage premiers etc.
I think if I got mine painted and looking right I’d be wanting £7k for it. My insurance valuation was £6.5k this year which is pretty decent.
The EP3 is one of those cars I've sort of fancied for years but never taken the plunge. Got outbid on an ebay auction in 2016 and bought a Merc CLK430 instead. Even nice ones were only about £2K then - now they're around the £3.5K to £4K mark (whatever people may say on this thread, you can't get a nice one now for £2K IMO - not an original one at least), so I guess it may be the last chance to get one before they're too old and too expensive!
greenarrow said:
Butter Face said:
It’s funny how rust can seemingly affect some cars but not others, mines an earlyish prefacelift and has zero rust on it. I’ve seen some facelifts that are completely rotted out.
As for values, they seem to be going up slightly. A nice early car is easily £2k now, later cars with nice ‘bits’ and you’re £4k. Some people asking lots for JDM/late low mileage premiers etc.
I think if I got mine painted and looking right I’d be wanting £7k for it. My insurance valuation was £6.5k this year which is pretty decent.
I think you might have offered to sell me yours when I last put up a topic like this in 2016! Bet you're glad you kept it.As for values, they seem to be going up slightly. A nice early car is easily £2k now, later cars with nice ‘bits’ and you’re £4k. Some people asking lots for JDM/late low mileage premiers etc.
I think if I got mine painted and looking right I’d be wanting £7k for it. My insurance valuation was £6.5k this year which is pretty decent.
The EP3 is one of those cars I've sort of fancied for years but never taken the plunge. Got outbid on an ebay auction in 2016 and bought a Merc CLK430 instead. Even nice ones were only about £2K then - now they're around the £3.5K to £4K mark (whatever people may say on this thread, you can't get a nice one now for £2K IMO - not an original one at least), so I guess it may be the last chance to get one before they're too old and too expensive!
So, just rebooting this after a couple of months spent looking at classified ads on the usual places and also the Facebook Honda Civic EP3 Owners page which I joined. I left that site btw, as it was just full of traders trying to beat down the prices of private sellers and younger drivers who were seriously into modding their cars. Very few standard examples to be seen. Anyway I digress, I've now come to the conclusion that there seems to be a dearth of rust free standard EP3s out there worth buying at the moment, but plenty of early FN2s which seem to be a similar price and without the rust issues. I know that the FN2 is unloved in Civic Type R circles, but it does seem to have a lot going for it as a second hand hot hatch and they're getting seriously cheap for what they are IMO.
So is the FN2 actually the better buy now?
So is the FN2 actually the better buy now?
greenarrow said:
So, just rebooting this after a couple of months spent looking at classified ads on the usual places and also the Facebook Honda Civic EP3 Owners page which I joined. I left that site btw, as it was just full of traders trying to beat down the prices of private sellers and younger drivers who were seriously into modding their cars. Very few standard examples to be seen. Anyway I digress, I've now come to the conclusion that there seems to be a dearth of rust free standard EP3s out there worth buying at the moment, but plenty of early FN2s which seem to be a similar price and without the rust issues. I know that the FN2 is unloved in Civic Type R circles, but it does seem to have a lot going for it as a second hand hot hatch and they're getting seriously cheap for what they are IMO.
So is the FN2 actually the better buy now?
Never driven an FN2 but i have the Type S, had it for 7 years, never let me down, spacious, spaceship and can look stunning, see the Mugen Bodykit. So is the FN2 actually the better buy now?
Im tempted to purchase an FN2 also, as you say, plenty of decent 2010 examples around teh £5k mark or under with decent mileage. But i believe theyre not as light and fractionally slower than the EP3;s. But FN2 imho look better then kitted out.
Watching with interest
It depends what you want from the car but the fn2 was arguably always the better buy over a (UK) EP3.
You probably know that one of the reasons for the negative press was the fn2 changed from independent rear suspension to a beam, but my fn2 handled way better than my EP3 ever did, not to mention the improved steering feel (the EP3 suffered from a numb sensation when loaded into sharp corner which takes a bit of getting used to).
The fn2 added creature comforts may detract from the driving experience or make it useable, depending who you speak to or what you'd use the car for. Also, the added engine balance shaft refines the k20 engine but also robs a little power, but many owners remove this (a few hundred pound and an opportunity to renew the timing chain and tensioner).
Fn2s suffered a bit with rust above the windscreen seal but Honda were rectifying this (along with a revised seal) but mine was great apart from that.
You probably know that one of the reasons for the negative press was the fn2 changed from independent rear suspension to a beam, but my fn2 handled way better than my EP3 ever did, not to mention the improved steering feel (the EP3 suffered from a numb sensation when loaded into sharp corner which takes a bit of getting used to).
The fn2 added creature comforts may detract from the driving experience or make it useable, depending who you speak to or what you'd use the car for. Also, the added engine balance shaft refines the k20 engine but also robs a little power, but many owners remove this (a few hundred pound and an opportunity to renew the timing chain and tensioner).
Fn2s suffered a bit with rust above the windscreen seal but Honda were rectifying this (along with a revised seal) but mine was great apart from that.
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