E46 M3 CSL with proper manual box - someone on here?

[g3org3y]

Retrofitted, one of 4 in the world apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRm_soPGdgA

Video courtesy of Autocar.

PH member?

[Chapppers]

Hello

[Mark83]

If I had one and it was a keeper, I would be doing this.

I wonder how it would affect residuals? Factory manual conversions on the Vanquish increased their value.

Chapeau to the owner.

[shantybeater]

SMG to manual conversion is not so difficult. Many do it with the normal E46. I don't believe it requires many parts.

[Chapppers]

Yes it was more of a mental battle than it was a difficult task

[g3org3y]

Chapppers said:

Hello

I suspected it may be a PHer (Do you have a reader's car thread about the conversion btw?)

[stevesingo]

Chapppers said:

Yes it was more of a mental battle than it was a difficult task

I admire your single minded approach to do what you want and say balls to the beards.

My E30 M3 Sport Evo would give the beards palpitations, but I don't care.

Good man.

[Slippydiff]

stevesingo said:

I admire your single minded approach to do what you want and say balls to the beards.

My E30 M3 Sport Evo would give the beards palpitations, but I don't care.

Good man.

I ran a CSL for 3 years and the thick end of 30K miles. See my post here :

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I really don’t get the hate for the SMG ‘box in the CSL (or indeed the M6 V10) Sure, they take a bit of effort to learn, but once mastered they’re utterly intuitive and suit the cars perfectly.

If the manual ‘box in the E46 had a shift quality that was a thing of wonderment, I could understand the traditionalists (actually, I think you’re the beard in this instance) but the E46 M3’s manual shift quality is distinctly average.

As has been said on PH numerous time’s previously, the SMG haters more often than not either haven’t ever driven a CSL, haven’t spent the required amount of time behind the wheel, didn’t take the time to learn how to use the ‘box, or drove cars which hadn’t had the many software updates, or just as likely had gearbox/clutch issues...

[Chapppers]

I disagree on a number of your points.

• my car was in perfect working order
• I drove it for 5 years like that
• I drive for a job, and not trucks or taxis so I do know what I’m doing.

After all that, I still converted it. I also fixed a number of issues with the manual shift quality while I was at it, tightening everything up, deleting the CDV etc. No it’s never going to be an MX5 but shift quality isn’t the sum total of the reason, it’s having to do the work yourself that’s so satisfying.

But it’s fine to like SMG if that’s your thing. It has its benefits, it has its advantage and it’s certainly quicker. It’s just not for me, so I got rid of it and now I have to use my left leg and left arm to drive the car. SMG also feels like an odd product of its time, a manual box was fitted to cars before and after it and needs no judgement really, it’s just there so you can concentrate on how good the rest of the car is.

I think a manual box frees up a whole load of character that’s otherwise hidden by a computer doing a job that could can very easily do yourself with some practice and adds another level to the experience. It’s more fun because it’s more work.

I’ll put a build thread up at some point, I’m not really a very active member of PH nowadays though.

[R.Sole]

Chapppers said:

I disagree on a number of your points.

• my car was in perfect working order
• I drove it for 5 years like that
• I drive for a job, and not trucks or taxis so I do know what I’m doing.

After all that, I still converted it. I also fixed a number of issues with the manual shift quality while I was at it, tightening everything up, deleting the CDV etc. No it’s never going to be an MX5 but shift quality isn’t the sum total of the reason, it’s having to do the work yourself that’s so satisfying.

But it’s fine to like SMG if that’s your thing. It has its benefits, it has its advantage and it’s certainly quicker. It’s just not for me, so I got rid of it and now I have to use my left leg and left arm to drive the car. SMG also feels like an odd product of its time, a manual box was fitted to cars before and after it and needs no judgement really, it’s just there so you can concentrate on how good the rest of the car is.

I think a manual box frees up a whole load of character that’s otherwise hidden by a computer doing a job that could can very easily do yourself with some practice and adds another level to the experience. It’s more fun because it’s more work.

I’ll put a build thread up at some point, I’m not really a very active member of PH nowadays though.

[CSLchappie]

Slippydiff said:

I ran a CSL for 3 years and the thick end of 30K miles. See my post here :

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I really don’t get the hate for the SMG ‘box in the CSL (or indeed the M6 V10) Sure, they take a bit of effort to learn, but once mastered they’re utterly intuitive and suit the cars perfectly.

If the manual ‘box in the E46 had a shift quality that was a thing of wonderment, I could understand the traditionalists (actually, I think you’re the beard in this instance) but the E46 M3’s manual shift quality is distinctly average.

As has been said on PH numerous time’s previously, the SMG haters more often than not either haven’t ever driven a CSL, haven’t spent the required amount of time behind the wheel, didn’t take the time to learn how to use the ‘box, or drove cars which hadn’t had the many software updates, or just as likely had gearbox/clutch issues...

I've a similar background, experience and outlook. I had a manual E46 M3 prior to buying a CSL and all I remember of the manual box is that for daily use it was pretty average, and hateful in heavy traffic / around town. I think that was the shortest ownership of any car I've ever owned (the manual M3) whereas the longest was the pair of SMGIII M5's I owned (the first was written off and there was nothing else at the time that compared)

Fair play to the owner for converting but some of the comments I've read on the subject just seems like rose tinted hyperbole.

[Genuine Barn Find]

There’s a feature on the manual CSL in the latest edition of Modern Classics. Back to back tests in the N/A generation. Interesting to see that my mint E46 M3 is now worth north of £20,000 (not)

[Slippydiff]

CSLchappie said:

I've a similar background, experience and outlook. I had a manual E46 M3 prior to buying a CSL and all I remember of the manual box is that for daily use it was pretty average, and hateful in heavy traffic / around town. I think that was the shortest ownership of any car I've ever owned (the manual M3) whereas the longest was the pair of SMGIII M5's I owned (the first was written off and there was nothing else at the time that compared)

Fair play to the owner for converting but some of the comments I've read on the subject just seems like rose tinted hyperbole.

^ This.
I never once returned from a “spirited” drive in the CSL thinking “That would have been so much better if I’d had a quaint stick to wobble about to select the gears with”.

The vast majority of my “toys” have been manuals, but the CSL was a refreshing change (and a breath of fresh air if I’m honest).

There is a caveat though, the SMG system is undoubtedly flawed, massively so when compared with today’s modern DCT/PDK & the now ubiquitous ZF 8 Speed auto transmissions, but therein lies a massive part of it’s appeal, because far from just pulling the paddle and some computer executing a perfect change every time, the SMG system is far more reliant on the user finessing pretty much every shift, and a bit like the sandal-wearing beards that eulogise about perfecting their H&T downshifts and their double de-clutching whilst wallowing in some mythical analogue nirvana, the SMG user is faced with a task that is just as immersive, that being perfecting a flawed digital system that requires analogue inputs to make it function in an acceptable manner.
Embrace the challenge (for that’s what it is) and it becomes a joyous method of swapping cogs, and as for those throttle blips whilst changing down barrelling into another hairpin high up the Col de Turini whilst in S5/6 and Sport mode engaged ...

I’m afraid Matt Prior’s assumption that the manual CSL is a “completely different car” to the SMG one, is utter nonsense.

Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 11th January 16:27

[daviekiwi]

Just watched the autocar vid, sounds awesome! well done Chappers, diy thread would be great.

[darreni]

Slippydiff said:

I ran a CSL for 3 years and the thick end of 30K miles. See my post here :

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I really don’t get the hate for the SMG ‘box in the CSL (or indeed the M6 V10) Sure, they take a bit of effort to learn, but once mastered they’re utterly intuitive and suit the cars perfectly.

If the manual ‘box in the E46 had a shift quality that was a thing of wonderment, I could understand the traditionalists (actually, I think you’re the beard in this instance) but the E46 M3’s manual shift quality is distinctly average.

As has been said on PH numerous time’s previously, the SMG haters more often than not either haven’t ever driven a CSL, haven’t spent the required amount of time behind the wheel, didn’t take the time to learn how to use the ‘box, or drove cars which hadn’t had the many software updates, or just as likely had gearbox/clutch issues...

I’m 10 years & 30k miles into my CSL & have to agree. That’s not to say I’m not a fan of chappers manual conversion, I think you should have the car that you want.

[Caddyshack]

Just read the modern classics, I did not know it was exactly the same box and only needs a new bellhousing and clutch then a pedal on the standard foot well setup etc...can go crack to flappy paddle so full retro too. 2-3k depending on spec and short shift is in the top price.

If I bought a CSL I would do it but I wonder if a good M3 with some csl bits plus other enhancements might be better still. I like the sound of the M5 engined e46 too.

[johnwilliams77]

Slippydiff said:

^ This.
I never once returned from a “spirited” drive in the CSL thinking “That would have been so much better if I’d had a quaint stick to wobble about to select the gears with”.

The vast majority of my “toys” have been manuals, but the CSL was a refreshing change (and a breath of fresh air if I’m honest).

There is a caveat though, the SMG system is undoubtedly flawed, massively so when compared with today’s modern DCT/PDK & the now ubiquitous ZF 8 Speed auto transmissions, but therein lies a massive part of it’s appeal, because far from just pulling the paddle and some computer executing a perfect change every time, the SMG system is far more reliant on the user finessing pretty much every shift, and a bit like the sandal-wearing beards that eulogise about perfecting their H&T downshifts and their double de-clutching whilst wallowing in some mythical analogue nirvana, the SMG user is faced with a task that is just as immersive, that being perfecting a flawed digital system that requires analogue inputs to make it function in an acceptable manner.
Embrace the challenge (for that’s what it is) and it becomes a joyous method of swapping cogs, and as for those throttle blips whilst changing down barrelling into another hairpin high up the Col de Turini whilst in S5/6 and Sport mode engaged ...

I’m afraid Matt Prior’s assumption that the manual CSL is a “completely different car” to the SMG one, is utter nonsense.

Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 11th January 16:27

From watching the video it seems like the journalist and the owner disagrees and much prefer the manual box. Each to their own and all.

[g3org3y]

Is the SMG in the CSL exactly the same as those in regular E46 M3s?

[Slippydiff]

g3org3y said:

Is the SMG in the CSL exactly the same as those in regular E46 M3s?

To all intents and purposes yes, only the software differs iirc.

[R.Sole]

Slippydiff said:

CSLchappie said:

I've a similar background, experience and outlook. I had a manual E46 M3 prior to buying a CSL and all I remember of the manual box is that for daily use it was pretty average, and hateful in heavy traffic / around town. I think that was the shortest ownership of any car I've ever owned (the manual M3) whereas the longest was the pair of SMGIII M5's I owned (the first was written off and there was nothing else at the time that compared)

Fair play to the owner for converting but some of the comments I've read on the subject just seems like rose tinted hyperbole.

^ This.
I never once returned from a “spirited” drive in the CSL thinking “That would have been so much better if I’d had a quaint stick to wobble about to select the gears with”.

The vast majority of my “toys” have been manuals, but the CSL was a refreshing change (and a breath of fresh air if I’m honest).

There is a caveat though, the SMG system is undoubtedly flawed, massively so when compared with today’s modern DCT/PDK & the now ubiquitous ZF 8 Speed auto transmissions, but therein lies a massive part of it’s appeal, because far from just pulling the paddle and some computer executing a perfect change every time, the SMG system is far more reliant on the user finessing pretty much every shift, and a bit like the sandal-wearing beards that eulogise about perfecting their H&T downshifts and their double de-clutching whilst wallowing in some mythical analogue nirvana, the SMG user is faced with a task that is just as immersive, that being perfecting a flawed digital system that requires analogue inputs to make it function in an acceptable manner.
Embrace the challenge (for that’s what it is) and it becomes a joyous method of swapping cogs, and as for those throttle blips whilst changing down barrelling into another hairpin high up the Col de Turini whilst in S5/6 and Sport mode engaged ...

I’m afraid Matt Prior’s assumption that the manual CSL is a “completely different car” to the SMG one, is utter nonsense.

Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 11th January 16:27

“Ubiquitous ZF8” I have driven many equipped cars and at the end of the day it’s a slush box, a good slush box but still not anywhere near the feeling of changing gear manually!