VIPER. IS THIS the purest sports car engine on the planet?

[Grindle]

I was visited today by an American friend, living here, who has recently imported his pride and joy from Fort Worth, Texas, to Norfolk, UK.
Naturally aspirated? Tick. 645 bhp as stock (654 PS)? Tick. Similar weight to a BMW 320i? Tick. The most monstrous yet un-turbo-like thrust from as little as 1,500 rpm? Tick. Manual gearbox? Tick. 600 ft-lb @ 5,000 rpm? Tick. 195 mph as standard? Tick. RWD? Tick.
It won't float everyone's boat, being LHD and very wide indeed but that 2017 Viper 8.4 V10 was really something to listen to and experience with the loud pedal to the floor. It's apparently a bit too warm for the driver and passenger in summer, but presumably not such a problem here as in Texas, or Arizona where he used to live. Old-fashioned boring USA engine technology? Sure, the basic lump was designed for a freaking truck, way back. But the OHV, 2-valve per cylinder motor breathes fury and mayhem without trying. Those poor 345-section 20 inch rear tyres! Good luck!
It pulls a top gear giving 51 mph per 1,000 revs, the highest i have ever known for a petrol car. Not sure any diesels can do that tbh and they won't rev to 6,700 rpm!
Fabulous car which isn't universally liked here i have noticed. But do we have any Viper fans here? I never thought i'd entertain one but after today, well maybe i will scratch that itch next year.

[Grindle]

Oh and i know a McLaren 650, eg, is a far ''better'' car but £50,000 buys the aforementioned 2017 8.4 V10. That's amazing value in my book.

[jayemm89]

I have passengered in a Viper ACR around Watkins Glen, it was quite an experience. Sadly never driven a Viper but it's a bucket list car to sample for me.

[Grindle]

I did it down, i have just been told! 206 mph it does. (Plus 3.4 to 60).
Awesome.

[V8RX7]

Grindle said:

Old-fashioned boring USA engine technology? Sure, the basic lump was designed for a freaking truck, way back.

^^^ I think you've answered your own question there.

It's a big engine but not a great engine, is it the purest sports car engine

[AndySheff]

I bought a GTS as a 40th present to myself. Brutal. Absolutely loved it.
(Have a Hellcat now )

[Krikkit]

V8RX7 said:

Grindle said:

Old-fashioned boring USA engine technology? Sure, the basic lump was designed for a freaking truck, way back.

^^^ I think you've answered your own question there.

It's a big engine but not a great engine, is it the purest sports car engine

The engine in the Gen2/3 was nothing like the original. They're actually pretty sophisticated for what they are.

[mrfunex]

Krikkit said:

The engine in the Gen2/3 was nothing like the original. They're actually pretty sophisticated for what they are.

The engines are not sophisticated, in the slightest. They are, however, brutally effective.

I love mine a bit more every time I drive it!

Edited by mrfunex on Tuesday 19th November 14:42

[300bhp/ton]

mrfunex said:

Krikkit said:

The engine in the Gen2/3 was nothing like the original. They're actually pretty sophisticated for what they are.

The engines are not sophisticated, in the slightest.

Why not? What is your criteria on an engine becoming sophisticated, black tie and a Vodka Martini?

[Dblue]

Sports car engines should rev rapidly and freely, and get more intense as the revs rise.
The very best LS Chevvy V8s just about conform to that ideal but, value for money apart, the best motors from Porsche, Ferrari and the Audi/Lambo V10 are in a different league.

[HM-2]

Wasn't the Viper V10 also used in a variety of SUVs and pickups?

[300bhp/ton]

HM-2 said:

Wasn't the Viper V10 also used in a variety of SUVs and pickups?

The original V10 was a development of the Magnum V8 engine and was an optional engine in the Ram 2500 pickup (Ford also offered a 6.8 litre V10). The original Viper used a tuned version of this engine, which was then later fitted to the SRT-10 Ram 1500 pickup as a sports truck.

The Viper engine has gone through several evolution's, including a conversion from cast iron to all aluminium, in which I believe Lamborghini where involved with. The latest version also used variable valve timing while retaining an OHV layout. And probably other interesting tech too.

[CABC]

i drove one of the originals and really couldn't tell the difference between 2nd and 4th!
sledgehammer/nut?
shirley, a 4L Mezger revving to 9k? or any number of V12s from UK/Italy/Germany.
LFA V10. (apparently)

[mrfunex]

300bhp/ton said:

Why not? What is your criteria on an engine becoming sophisticated, black tie and a Vodka Martini?

So the engine on the gen 3 is a 2 valve per cylinder pushrod. It’s got no variable valve timing, variable displacement, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, or anything like that. It’s got one spark plug per cylinder, cable throttle, isn’t economical, and doesn’t rev particularly high. It’s about as complicated as our lawn mower, just a lot bigger.

I’d say that’s pretty unsophisticated?

Extending the argument to the car as a whole, the plastics are cheap, the brakes are steel, the gearbox is heavy and the driver aids stop just after ABS.

It’s an antidote to all this modern stuff! My main criticism of it so far is that it can be a bit wide for some roads!

[300bhp/ton]

mrfunex said:

So the engine on the gen 3 is a 2 valve per cylinder pushrod.

Why do you assume this makes it unsophisticated? being complex and more costly to build is not a definition I recognise as "sophisticated"

[NoPaddleShiftForMe]

I have Gen V Viper and some rather nice naturally aspirated, manual gear boxed cars from Europe’s best and it holds its own just fine. It really is a hell of a car.

[mrfunex]

300bhp/ton said:

being complex and more costly to build is not a definition I recognise as "sophisticated"

That is the very definition of sophisticated...

Dictionary.com said:

(of a machine, system, or technique) developed to a high degree of complexity.
"highly sophisticated computer systems"
Similar:
advanced
highly developed
innovatory
trailblazing
revolutionary
modern
ultra-modern
futuristic
avant-garde
state of the art
the latest
new
the newest
up to the minute
complex
complicated
elaborate
intricate
subtle
delicate

Shall we put this to bed now?

Nice to see there are a few more Viper owners on here - I know they’re not common, but I thought this part of the forum was dead. Must get some stripes for mine though - should complete the look nicely!

[ShortBeardy]

Why in the world given the information available on the internet, do people persist in quoting and requoting stuff that is so easily fact checked?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGDdBFbikUQ

As noted above it’s not the latest word in complexity, but regardless, as a package the Viper has proven to be a very effective track car.
It’s not massively heavy and it’s not massively big.
Gen 3 Viper 175” long, 75” wide, 3380lbs (1536Kg) 500hp.
So it’s about the same weight as the 2020 Porsche 911. It’s 3 inches shorter and 2 inches wider and has about 60bhp more. It's narrower than most supercars. Allegedly they are also quite reliable and the parts prices are not horrific.

Shall we get started on how the corvette has a transverse leaf spring and how terrible that is, or shall we just skip to the bit where someone points out it has fully independent suspension with two pairs of wishbones at each corner and the composite leaf spring is lighter than traditional coils?

[neejah]

300bhp/ton said:

The original V10 was a development of the Magnum V8 engine and was an optional engine in the Ram 2500 pickup (Ford also offered a 6.8 litre V10). The original Viper used a tuned version of this engine, which was then later fitted to the SRT-10 Ram 1500 pickup as a sports truck.

The Viper engine has gone through several evolution's, including a conversion from cast iron to all aluminium, in which I believe Lamborghini where involved with. The latest version also used variable valve timing while retaining an OHV layout. And probably other interesting tech too.

Magnum V10 isn’t the same engine as the viper.....it’s a boat anchor in comparison. But was iron block, unlike a viper engine.

The ram srt-10 also wasn’t the same as the gen1 or 2, but was the gen 3 motor.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viper_engine

Lamborghini were involved in the original design, but I believe dodge ended up re-engineering due to durability issues.

Edited by neejah on Wednesday 20th November 05:17

[Teddy Lop]

The purity of the viper is quite a thing, but I'm more a fan of the raw visceral simplicity and low running costs you get from a bugatti veyron.