Discussion
This might mean I have to go :boxedin: but having been to the F1 testing at Silverstone yesterday, I think I now see what Bernie has been saying about this venue. This was the first time I have been up there for yonks, and whilst the road network is definetely 100s of % better than it used to be, the facilities are still pretty basic - grotty burger catering from caravans, loos where you are better off not touching any surfaces, grandstands built out of scaffolding, low level pits etc.
We can't afford to lose a grand prix in this country and I believe further improvements are planned, but they need to come sooner rather than later. Compared to what is being built elsewhere in the world, it is still a poor second.
Just my £0.02's worth and all imho of course.
We can't afford to lose a grand prix in this country and I believe further improvements are planned, but they need to come sooner rather than later. Compared to what is being built elsewhere in the world, it is still a poor second.
Just my £0.02's worth and all imho of course.
I went to the F1 test Wednesday and Friday - and for FREE entry ( as testing always is) I thought the facilities laid on were excellent.
I've always thought the circuit should charge a nominal fee to cover expenses...but they don't.
I think it's great that Silverstone lets the public in for FREE on test days - any facilities they provide you should be grateful for.
I've always thought the circuit should charge a nominal fee to cover expenses...but they don't.
I think it's great that Silverstone lets the public in for FREE on test days - any facilities they provide you should be grateful for.
mutt k said:
This might mean I have to go but having been to the F1 testing at Silverstone yesterday, I think I now see what Bernie has been saying about this venue. This was the first time I have been up there for yonks, and whilst the road network is definetely 100s of % better than it used to be, the facilities are still pretty basic - grotty burger catering from caravans, loos where you are better off not touching any surfaces, grandstands built out of scaffolding, low level pits etc.
We can't afford to lose a grand prix in this country and I believe further improvements are planned, but they need to come sooner rather than later. Compared to what is being built elsewhere in the world, it is still a poor second.
Just my £0.02's worth and all imho of course.
Spa is little better in fact it is worse! Who runs Spa?
Bernie of course!
Silverstone is our local circuit, so obviously the one most visited by us. During the summer months in particular, we have been known to attend every weekend race meet up there except F1 because we can't afford the ludicrous price of the tickets.
I honestly don't think the facilities there are THAT bad and they're certainly no worse than any of the other circuits I've been to (in England).
The burgers from the catering vans are greasy and usually served by equally as greasy teenagers, I'll concede that, but you can usually get an alternative to that kind of food, but there's plenty of vans to get food from and the coffee always tastes great.
And as for the toilets, yes there are still some that are a bit old and crumbly because they haven't been replaced yet, but in my opinion, apart from the odd cubicle, the ladies loos are nearly always clean. Obviously, I can't speak for the gents!
I thought racing was about watching the drivers do their thing with their cars and personally I find it pitiful that F1 seems to be taking the emphasis away from that and placing it on having pretty surroundings for the people who probably don't even watch the race and just like to be seen talking to the right people in the right places.
I honestly don't think the facilities there are THAT bad and they're certainly no worse than any of the other circuits I've been to (in England).
The burgers from the catering vans are greasy and usually served by equally as greasy teenagers, I'll concede that, but you can usually get an alternative to that kind of food, but there's plenty of vans to get food from and the coffee always tastes great.
And as for the toilets, yes there are still some that are a bit old and crumbly because they haven't been replaced yet, but in my opinion, apart from the odd cubicle, the ladies loos are nearly always clean. Obviously, I can't speak for the gents!
I thought racing was about watching the drivers do their thing with their cars and personally I find it pitiful that F1 seems to be taking the emphasis away from that and placing it on having pretty surroundings for the people who probably don't even watch the race and just like to be seen talking to the right people in the right places.
Most of the new circuits have been built around stunning facilities for the teams, press and VIPs.
Spectators are treated much the same wherever you go.
I was at Monaco this year and the seat I sat upon, the loos and burgers were little different to those at Silverstone (although the location was much nicer!!)
A grass bank is a grass bank wherever it is in the world!
The only circuit in the UK that has been developed with the Spectator's interest first is Rockingham.
I've never thought Silverstone a particularly bad circuit (as a spectator) but know of a couple of competitors who hate the place.
Spectators are treated much the same wherever you go.
I was at Monaco this year and the seat I sat upon, the loos and burgers were little different to those at Silverstone (although the location was much nicer!!)
A grass bank is a grass bank wherever it is in the world!
The only circuit in the UK that has been developed with the Spectator's interest first is Rockingham.
I've never thought Silverstone a particularly bad circuit (as a spectator) but know of a couple of competitors who hate the place.
it doesnt take a genius to work out why there are so many new circuits in the far east though does it? aside form the lack of tobacco advertising laws, the sponsors must love it. nice hot weather and a brand new facility.... almost every race circuit in this country is an old airfied in comparison. add to that the numpties who run the country then those who complain if they move next to a race circuit but dont like the noise and you are left with hte shambles evident at silverstone....
more and more circuits will spring up in the far east and the history of the sport at its "founder" circuits will be lost forever. Face it why take sponsors to silverstone when for little more money they can go to sepang or bahrain?!?
its about money not providing for spectators. i firmly believe bernie would rather we all stayed at home and watched it on the telly rather than have to cater for the race fans. he must think we are all mad.
have my tickets for hungary in july and cant wait.....
more and more circuits will spring up in the far east and the history of the sport at its "founder" circuits will be lost forever. Face it why take sponsors to silverstone when for little more money they can go to sepang or bahrain?!?
its about money not providing for spectators. i firmly believe bernie would rather we all stayed at home and watched it on the telly rather than have to cater for the race fans. he must think we are all mad.
have my tickets for hungary in july and cant wait.....
pablo said:
its about money not providing for spectators.
You've hit the nail on the head Pablo!
IMO, the biggest problem that F1 and many other formulae has had of late is that it believes it exists for its own benfit.
I have had big players in motor sport tell me quite bluntly that spectators are a pain in the arse which is a ludicrous attitude when you consider that from spectators we get buyers of sponsors products, future competitors, marshalls.....in other words "customers".
It's taken F1 the best part of 50 years to cotton on to this and it does appear to be bearing a little fruit.
Enjoy Hungary!
yep i agree too, all about money. i go to silverstone to see a motor race, nothing else, and 9 times out of ten im not dissapointed, its usually a cracking grand-prix. And its always packed with Spectators, unlike the new tracks which seem mostly empty apart from the grandstands. id be so dissapointed if we ever lost our grand-prix.
i think the fact that spa has also been threatened in the past with exclusion (and lost its race for a year), proves that the racing comes a distant second to money, and business. how can bernie say he wants to make the sport better and then take away the best track on the calendar?
im usually too excited to be at the british grand-prix to care about the toilets. its a great track, and its usually provides us with a great race. thats all thats matters....
i think the fact that spa has also been threatened in the past with exclusion (and lost its race for a year), proves that the racing comes a distant second to money, and business. how can bernie say he wants to make the sport better and then take away the best track on the calendar?
im usually too excited to be at the british grand-prix to care about the toilets. its a great track, and its usually provides us with a great race. thats all thats matters....
To be fair, Silverstone has made a number of expensive improvements, but most people will only see a few of them. The new 2-lane access bridge was essential, but only the competitors see it.
However, overall, the facilities are a good 20 years out of date. As a Grand Prix facility it needs to be on a match with the best in the world. It isn't, and indeed is behind a couple of other British circuits (Rockingham and Goodwood). To my view, the circuit should be able to comfortably serve at least 200,000 spectators on race day:
1) Because the demand is there
2) Because gate money for these events is the only way they make their money.
Looking at the spectator areas (the Paddock would take a whole new chapter):
- The main grandstands are really not very good. Open, semi-permanent. Take a look at the block at Rockingham, which is so much better, and so more thought out. It is fully permanent (concrete), has two stand tiers plus excellent corporate boxes, offers excellent, high views, integrated toilets, and has a grass area down the front. Silverstone should have a block like this running from Luffield to the exit of Copse (from the top deck you would be able to see almost the entire International circuit - now that I would pay for). That is the standard that Silverstone should be targetting.
- OK, not everyone wants to use or pay for grandstands. But the spectator banks are narrow and not particularly well maintained. If you saw the MotoGP at Mugello they had far larger banks, perhaps 100 deep.
- Food. Some people do want just burgers, but there's a complete lack of imagination. People will pay for quality. would you rather pay £1.90 for a Nero Cappucino, or £1.20 for a small, tasteless instant brew in a tatty plastic cup? On my High Street, I have a full set of coffee houses (Nero, Costa, Republic, Starbucks, some offering hot and cold food), MacDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Pret A Manger, Subway, never mind the chippy, the delis, and Greggs the baker (sandwiches, plus hot rolls and pies). That's a huge range, supporting a similar sized audience to GP day. You could build a full service, mobile Nero for £50k - how many events would it take to deliver ROI? £100k would give you a fully-functioning McDonalds (Melbourne did this six years ago, and it was mental, incredibly successful). At Goodwood Revival you have a decent range of choices (including the standard burger, but also sit-down meals in the Spitfire Cafe, champagne, packed lunches by Penfolds), even though it's one of the weakest elements of the GRM package. Come on, be imaginative, and approach the suppliers with a new business opportunity.
- I really can't comment on toilets, because I rarely stray beyond the Paddock. Not that bad, though I've noticed how much more effort MotorSport Vision have been putting in to keeping theirs clean, stocked, and acceptable. People notice these little things.
- Add ons. Goodwood offers the charabanc to move the public around the circuit (Cost: A bloke driving a tractor for nine hours; Benefit: immense). They hire out granny scooters. They offer exclusive facilities for fee-paying members.
I can accept that Silverstone and the BRDC do not have bottomless pockets, and I can appreciate that there are other initiatives to pursue. But:
- Silverstone should be best in the world. Just because some of the other circuits aren't very good is no excuse. With Indianapolis Motor Speedway, it should share the title of "The Home Of Motorsport, In The World". It doesn't. It barely justifies "Home Of British Motorsport", at least from a spectators point of view.
- It needs the spectators to make its money. Not just buying tickets, but encouraging them to spend money once inside.
- It needs to establish the benchmarks, and not just in motorsport. Indianapolis can handle nearly 500,000 people in the same space - whay can't Silverstone? Bristol Raceway handles 200,000 around an 800metre oval! If you see the overhead pictures it looks awesome. What about the various sports stadia across America, or anywhere else?
- It needs to use imagination. Look for innovative ideas.
- And it needs a roadmap, to establish where they want to get to, and how they are going to get there.
I don't want to be too down on the BRDC. But I see awesome potential, hugely underexploited.
However, overall, the facilities are a good 20 years out of date. As a Grand Prix facility it needs to be on a match with the best in the world. It isn't, and indeed is behind a couple of other British circuits (Rockingham and Goodwood). To my view, the circuit should be able to comfortably serve at least 200,000 spectators on race day:
1) Because the demand is there
2) Because gate money for these events is the only way they make their money.
Looking at the spectator areas (the Paddock would take a whole new chapter):
- The main grandstands are really not very good. Open, semi-permanent. Take a look at the block at Rockingham, which is so much better, and so more thought out. It is fully permanent (concrete), has two stand tiers plus excellent corporate boxes, offers excellent, high views, integrated toilets, and has a grass area down the front. Silverstone should have a block like this running from Luffield to the exit of Copse (from the top deck you would be able to see almost the entire International circuit - now that I would pay for). That is the standard that Silverstone should be targetting.
- OK, not everyone wants to use or pay for grandstands. But the spectator banks are narrow and not particularly well maintained. If you saw the MotoGP at Mugello they had far larger banks, perhaps 100 deep.
- Food. Some people do want just burgers, but there's a complete lack of imagination. People will pay for quality. would you rather pay £1.90 for a Nero Cappucino, or £1.20 for a small, tasteless instant brew in a tatty plastic cup? On my High Street, I have a full set of coffee houses (Nero, Costa, Republic, Starbucks, some offering hot and cold food), MacDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Pret A Manger, Subway, never mind the chippy, the delis, and Greggs the baker (sandwiches, plus hot rolls and pies). That's a huge range, supporting a similar sized audience to GP day. You could build a full service, mobile Nero for £50k - how many events would it take to deliver ROI? £100k would give you a fully-functioning McDonalds (Melbourne did this six years ago, and it was mental, incredibly successful). At Goodwood Revival you have a decent range of choices (including the standard burger, but also sit-down meals in the Spitfire Cafe, champagne, packed lunches by Penfolds), even though it's one of the weakest elements of the GRM package. Come on, be imaginative, and approach the suppliers with a new business opportunity.
- I really can't comment on toilets, because I rarely stray beyond the Paddock. Not that bad, though I've noticed how much more effort MotorSport Vision have been putting in to keeping theirs clean, stocked, and acceptable. People notice these little things.
- Add ons. Goodwood offers the charabanc to move the public around the circuit (Cost: A bloke driving a tractor for nine hours; Benefit: immense). They hire out granny scooters. They offer exclusive facilities for fee-paying members.
I can accept that Silverstone and the BRDC do not have bottomless pockets, and I can appreciate that there are other initiatives to pursue. But:
- Silverstone should be best in the world. Just because some of the other circuits aren't very good is no excuse. With Indianapolis Motor Speedway, it should share the title of "The Home Of Motorsport, In The World". It doesn't. It barely justifies "Home Of British Motorsport", at least from a spectators point of view.
- It needs the spectators to make its money. Not just buying tickets, but encouraging them to spend money once inside.
- It needs to establish the benchmarks, and not just in motorsport. Indianapolis can handle nearly 500,000 people in the same space - whay can't Silverstone? Bristol Raceway handles 200,000 around an 800metre oval! If you see the overhead pictures it looks awesome. What about the various sports stadia across America, or anywhere else?
- It needs to use imagination. Look for innovative ideas.
- And it needs a roadmap, to establish where they want to get to, and how they are going to get there.
I don't want to be too down on the BRDC. But I see awesome potential, hugely underexploited.
Well I've never been a massive fan of Silverstone and TBH I prefer Brands Hatch as a venue and that's no pretending to be world class!
As mentioned above the grandstands look incredibly shabby, embarrassing next to Barcelona, for example.
Sure the BRDC complain about not having much money but look at their clubhouse, FFS. And they've spent most of this year squabbling over leadership and whether cups of tea should be paid for!
A couple of days ago a friend suggested that he was thinking of signing up to be a marshall. My take on this is that there are far too many people milling about the paddock doing f-all and raking in obscene amounts of money, yet the guys out on the edges of the circuit work bl**dy hard, in all weathers for nothing.
Unfortunately this attitude prevails throughout the sport and Silverstone is a classic example of something being wasted as those that could help look away, too busy buying the next yacht.
Thank goodness there are people out there like Johnathan Palmer that are prepared to put something back, yet do it properly so that it's not a rich man's folly. And he's already given the marshalls a free track day.
As mentioned above the grandstands look incredibly shabby, embarrassing next to Barcelona, for example.
Sure the BRDC complain about not having much money but look at their clubhouse, FFS. And they've spent most of this year squabbling over leadership and whether cups of tea should be paid for!
A couple of days ago a friend suggested that he was thinking of signing up to be a marshall. My take on this is that there are far too many people milling about the paddock doing f-all and raking in obscene amounts of money, yet the guys out on the edges of the circuit work bl**dy hard, in all weathers for nothing.
Unfortunately this attitude prevails throughout the sport and Silverstone is a classic example of something being wasted as those that could help look away, too busy buying the next yacht.
Thank goodness there are people out there like Johnathan Palmer that are prepared to put something back, yet do it properly so that it's not a rich man's folly. And he's already given the marshalls a free track day.
kevin ritson said:
Well I've never been a massive fan of Silverstone and TBH I prefer Brands Hatch as a venue and that's no pretending to be world class!
Brands Hatch? Hmm, the facilities at Silverstone are far superior to Brands Hatch. Although, to be fair, the circuit has undergone a few improvements over the years, it still looks like something out of the 80s. Needs a hell of a lot doing to it to make it near to Silverstone standards, but then Silverstone is a GP circuit.
kevin ritson said:
As mentioned above the grandstands look incredibly shabby, embarrassing next to Barcelona, for example.
Sure the BRDC complain about not having much money but look at their clubhouse, FFS. And they've spent most of this year squabbling over leadership and whether cups of tea should be paid for!
A couple of days ago a friend suggested that he was thinking of signing up to be a marshall. My take on this is that there are far too many people milling about the paddock doing f-all and raking in obscene amounts of money, yet the guys out on the edges of the circuit work bl**dy hard, in all weathers for nothing.
Unfortunately this attitude prevails throughout the sport and Silverstone is a classic example of something being wasted as those that could help look away, too busy buying the next yacht.
Thank goodness there are people out there like Johnathan Palmer that are prepared to put something back, yet do it properly so that it's not a rich man's folly. And he's already given the marshalls a free track day.
While I agree with what you say about the marshalls not getting much in return. Your comments about everything else, are, quite frankly, crap!
Have you been to ANY other current GP circuits recently? I've been to seven in the last 18 months. The most stunning of which was in the Middle East. Quite simply, because it is brand, spanking new and offers everything that BERNIE asks for. Becauase they build from the ground up specifially to that principle, and then some.
As for the other 6, all of which have been in Europe (including Silverstone) They're all dumps compared to the facilities that Silverstone offers. From a team perspective the garages and facilities at Silverstone are far superior to other venues not too far away from here that are never moaned about on the F1 calendar.
Yes, Silverstone errects scaffold grandstands. Err, why do you think? Because if they put in a full time structure then had to tear it down again because the FIA wanted more run-off, that would be a waste of money, wouldn't it???
The ONLY reason that Bernie whinges about Silverstone is because he knows, full well, that the British tabloid media feed on it like bees round a jam jar. Which, in turn, gives him (the money man remember) a shed load of free publicity to the money making machine that is F1.
There is no other reason. He has nothing to complain about compared to the other venues on the current calendar. I know, because I've seen them, from both sides of the fence.
All the complainers about Silverstone should STFU until they've been to another track to see for themselves.Then realise that the British fans do still have one of the best facilities in the world for F1 racing.
HiRich said:
As a Grand Prix facility it needs to be on a match with the best in the world. It isn't, and indeed is behind a couple of other British circuits (Rockingham and Goodwood).
See my other post with regards to other GP venues, the only ones better than Silverstone are the brand new ones, which have been built from the ground with Bernie's distinct plans in mind. Unless you have incredibly deep pockets and decide to tear everything down and start again, it's just never going to happen. Get over it. Besides, surely a 'circuit' (You know, the bits the drivers actually to the business on!?!) with character is more important than a track designed for cars that can't actually overtake so it has to be designed into the circuit?? Hmmmm.
HiRich said:
To my view, the circuit should be able to comfortably serve at least 200,000 spectators on race day:
1) Because the demand is there
2) Because gate money for these events is the only way they make their money.
Has there really been that much depmand over the last five years for the GP, on race day? I don't think there has. There hasn't been anywhere near that amount since the Mansellmania days. I think a figure of just over half that is the norm nowadays. Even the Indy 500 doesn't get the crowd it used to.
HiRich said:
Food. Some people do want just burgers, but there's a complete lack of imagination. People will pay for quality. would you rather pay £1.90 for a Nero Cappucino, or £1.20 for a small, tasteless instant brew in a tatty plastic cup? On my High Street, I have a full set of coffee houses (Nero, Costa, Republic, Starbucks, some offering hot and cold food), MacDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Pret A Manger, Subway, never mind the chippy, the delis, and Greggs the baker (sandwiches, plus hot rolls and pies). That's a huge range, supporting a similar sized audience to GP day. You could build a full service, mobile Nero for £50k - how many events would it take to deliver ROI? £100k would give you a fully-functioning McDonalds (Melbourne did this six years ago, and it was mental, incredibly successful).
If you've paid Bernie prices at the gate and are staying there for the weekend, would you really want to spend McD and BK prices over the course of a weekend for your food requirements? I'm damned sure I wouldn't.
HiRich said:
- Add ons. Goodwood offers the charabanc to move the public around the circuit (Cost: A bloke driving a tractor for nine hours; Benefit: immense). They hire out granny scooters. They offer exclusive facilities for fee-paying members.
Your comment that Goodwood is on a par (of not better) than Silverstone is laughable. It holds a total of Two major events a year.And is in use as a hired out trackday venue for the rest of it.It is privately owned and has nowhere near the level of facilities that Silverstone does, not least for teams and drivers. It's used because of the heritage card and the jolly for former GP and Bike GP racers. It's not in the same league to be used as a modern day venue. Wake up.
HiRich said:
I can accept that Silverstone and the BRDC do not have bottomless pockets, and I can appreciate that there are other initiatives to pursue. But:
- Silverstone should be best in the world.
Why? Because we're British and it just SHOULD BE? Gimme a break! Unless someone comes along and starts from a blank sheet of paper, it's not going to happen. It can't, because Bernie is constantly moving the goal posts. it's a never ending cycle.
HiRich said:
Just because some of the other circuits aren't very good is no excuse.
It's not an excuse, the BRDC have said that they want to invest in the circuit and its facilities. What they don't like is getting slagged off when there's no reason for it. If you look at other circuits around the world Silverstone is far superior. Why should they get flak when they're by no means the worst of the bunch? That's unfair, isn't it?
HiRich said:
Indianapolis can handle nearly 500,000 people in the same space - whay can't Silverstone? Bristol Raceway handles 200,000 around an 800metre oval! If you see the overhead pictures it looks awesome. What about the various sports stadia across America, or anywhere else?
Like I said, built from the ground up with that purpose in mind. And also, aren't most of the grandstands at Indy also the same type as on the start finish straight at Silverstone? Permanant scaffold type? I believe they are. In fact, if you actually take not next time you're round the back of the Grandstands along from Woodcote to Copse at Silverstone, you'll note that they're actually permanant fixtures.
Another group to think of is those of us that go to race tracks to work, i.e. the teams! We get there one ro two days before the race weekend then spend the weekend working. Go to circuits that have no shower facilities, on or two toilets that are rank at best no 'dirty room' (think oil and fluids rather than Miss Aguilera) etc. et.c and so that for three or four days a week for 16 weeks of the year + testing days and trackdays. Rocking is the only circuit that has facilities that are good for team personel but that's because it's the newest and has a huge amount of investment in it.
The main reason for going to a circuit is the racing, tracks should be first and foremost about a cracking circuit with bends like Copse, Paddock Hill etc. Then think about how to care for the bums on seats and make them want to come back, not just as a single person but as families, gorups etc. One way would be in improve the facilities such as food, drink, toilets and so forth. The UK isn't the only one with iffy facilities mind, travel to Europe and things don't leap up a couple of notches. SO yup things need to improve but let's knock our circuits too much oh and please think think of the teams as well
Think that's about a dimes worth, will trundle back off now........
The main reason for going to a circuit is the racing, tracks should be first and foremost about a cracking circuit with bends like Copse, Paddock Hill etc. Then think about how to care for the bums on seats and make them want to come back, not just as a single person but as families, gorups etc. One way would be in improve the facilities such as food, drink, toilets and so forth. The UK isn't the only one with iffy facilities mind, travel to Europe and things don't leap up a couple of notches. SO yup things need to improve but let's knock our circuits too much oh and please think think of the teams as well
Think that's about a dimes worth, will trundle back off now........
I went to silverstone last week for the first time to watch the testing. Went on Thursday.
The only shocking thing that I found was the price of a burger, about £4.00
. Saying that though its the greedy catering vans that charge that and they do it because there is nowhere else to go in the circuit.
The only other shocking thing I saw was a used sanitary towel that had been thrown on the floor near the loos. It had obviously been kicked about as there was a little trail of patches near it
ha ha!!! 
>> Edited by funkyrobot on Wednesday 8th June 10:45
The only shocking thing that I found was the price of a burger, about £4.00
. Saying that though its the greedy catering vans that charge that and they do it because there is nowhere else to go in the circuit. The only other shocking thing I saw was a used sanitary towel that had been thrown on the floor near the loos. It had obviously been kicked about as there was a little trail of patches near it
ha ha!!! >> Edited by funkyrobot on Wednesday 8th June 10:45
Crikey, racefan, there's some invective there! But there's a lot of things there that I just cannot accept.
You say that only the new, custom-built facilities are better than Silverstone. My response is the Bill Hicks' Four Questions Of Relevance:
Yeah?
And?
So?
What?
- These new facilities are the standard that Bernie (and indeed many other sports) have defined. Any circuit that doesn't come up to scratch is at risk.
- Silverstone isn't the greatest track. It has no Eau Rouge or Parabolica. It has no gradient. As a race circuit, it has no USP, no redeeming feature.
- Silverstone has to pay its own way. It dooesn't have Government backing (not in the way China or Bahrain do). Its only income source from the GP is the spectators. Basic business sense says they need to get more paying customers, with deeper pockets
It has to compete in the overall sports entertainment market. So it has to offer a better package than alternatives like football and rugby (who have been rapidly developing their facilities).
You talk of how other, better facilities have been built from scratch. So what? Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford, The Oval have all been redeveloped whilst maintaining their normal activities. All of these have houses backing on to the site. They've done it. Why can't Silverstone?
Anyhow, redevelopment doesn't have to be single-step rebuild. With a facility as large as Silverstone, it should be permanently ongoing - every year something new, something special, something that catches the eye. Alton Towers, Chessington (who are competing for the same money) are past masters at this - a rolling plan for five years or more of new features and redevelopments.
I suggest Silverstone's target for the GP should be 200,000. Now this isn't based on BRDC market research, just my thoughts base on my marketing experience of similar events in the UK. At this sort of level, the GP would be financially viable (a pretty fundamental requirement, surely). It would offer the opportunity of some price flexibility. Bernie and Flavio Briatore have already appreciated this - as Flavio has said "For the price of taking the family to the Grand Prix, you could take them to Marbella for the week". The GP sells out (what 90,000?) at a basic entry cost of, is it £50 nowadays? The TV audience for the GPs (4-8million) is comparable to, better even than for, Premiership football. When Sky started broadcasting live Premiership, the clubs were convinced it was the deathknell for paying spectators. Then they learnt how to covert viewers to spectators, and figures are better than for decades. Leicester Rugby Club has increased ticket sales from 400 (sic) to a consistent sell-out of 14,000. The case studies are there, so read them, and learn. The potential for the GP is not 90,000 - it is much, much higher.
As an aside, the single most important motorsport event in Britain can only attract the same crowd as the Revival Meeting or the Festival of Speed. Sounds to me like there's something to learn from Charlie March.
So I suggest some practical improvements. Seriously, get yourself down to Rockingham (first Sunday in the month). Tell me honestly that their stand facility is not miles ahead of Silverstone. Better for customers, better for generating income.
You may not want to pay for a Big Mac (cheaper than the horseburgers, by the way), but a lot of people will. Read what I said. They tried it in Melbourne and it was huge. IIRC, it was amongst the busiest McDonald's restaurants in the world. It works. So do it.
Then make the effort to visit the Revival Meeting. Clearly you haven't, or if you have you haven't really thought about what's happening around you. Don't watch the racing, just look around the Paddock and Spectator areas. Look at the details. Look at how much cash is being spent. Of course the circuit isn't to GP specification. Of course (some of) the facilities aren't as fancy as Silverstone. But Charles March knows what the punters want. He pitches at a variety of levels, and at every turn there's something to amaze and enthrall. What matters to you, a funky glass-fronted Paddock Club that you're never going to visit, or a decent lunch, a decent pint, a chance to see the cars and stars, a decent view of the track? Goodwood sells out. Day spend is huge. Sponsors are queuing up. It makes a profit. It generates immense fan loyalty (the waiting list for the GRRC is very long indeed). Aren't those the things Silverstone would want? So learn the lessons.
The evidence is all around you:
- Silverstone needs to improve or die.
- The real competition is moving forward. Silverstone has to keep up. Not just because Bernie says so, but because it's what the paying public are demanding.
- Claiming other circuits aren't as good is a lame excuse. Countries are queing up to join the circus. That means the weak will fall by the wayside. You can either complain about the injustice of it all, or do something about it. One path leads to prosperity, one to death. Guess which path I propose.
- You don't need to invest a king's ransom starting from a clean sheet of paper. Look at how others have a rolling redevelopment programme, and are very successful at it.
- Bernie may be playing politics, but he has also made some very astute comments about Silverstone. So listen to him.
- Listen to what the customers want. Surprise and delight them. They will spend more, and they will come back again and again.
- Other people are doing it. they are doing it better than you. they are taking your customers. You'd be a fool not to watch and learn.
I can see the potential for the Silverstone facility, and the customer proposition. It is way, way beyond what they currently achieve. It needs a radical overhaul and radical thinking. This won't happen overnight, it will take five, maybe ten years. But it has to happen, and in ten years we will be looking back wondering why on earth we put up with what we used to have.
You say that only the new, custom-built facilities are better than Silverstone. My response is the Bill Hicks' Four Questions Of Relevance:
Yeah?
And?
So?
What?
- These new facilities are the standard that Bernie (and indeed many other sports) have defined. Any circuit that doesn't come up to scratch is at risk.
- Silverstone isn't the greatest track. It has no Eau Rouge or Parabolica. It has no gradient. As a race circuit, it has no USP, no redeeming feature.
- Silverstone has to pay its own way. It dooesn't have Government backing (not in the way China or Bahrain do). Its only income source from the GP is the spectators. Basic business sense says they need to get more paying customers, with deeper pockets
It has to compete in the overall sports entertainment market. So it has to offer a better package than alternatives like football and rugby (who have been rapidly developing their facilities).
You talk of how other, better facilities have been built from scratch. So what? Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford, The Oval have all been redeveloped whilst maintaining their normal activities. All of these have houses backing on to the site. They've done it. Why can't Silverstone?
Anyhow, redevelopment doesn't have to be single-step rebuild. With a facility as large as Silverstone, it should be permanently ongoing - every year something new, something special, something that catches the eye. Alton Towers, Chessington (who are competing for the same money) are past masters at this - a rolling plan for five years or more of new features and redevelopments.
I suggest Silverstone's target for the GP should be 200,000. Now this isn't based on BRDC market research, just my thoughts base on my marketing experience of similar events in the UK. At this sort of level, the GP would be financially viable (a pretty fundamental requirement, surely). It would offer the opportunity of some price flexibility. Bernie and Flavio Briatore have already appreciated this - as Flavio has said "For the price of taking the family to the Grand Prix, you could take them to Marbella for the week". The GP sells out (what 90,000?) at a basic entry cost of, is it £50 nowadays? The TV audience for the GPs (4-8million) is comparable to, better even than for, Premiership football. When Sky started broadcasting live Premiership, the clubs were convinced it was the deathknell for paying spectators. Then they learnt how to covert viewers to spectators, and figures are better than for decades. Leicester Rugby Club has increased ticket sales from 400 (sic) to a consistent sell-out of 14,000. The case studies are there, so read them, and learn. The potential for the GP is not 90,000 - it is much, much higher.
As an aside, the single most important motorsport event in Britain can only attract the same crowd as the Revival Meeting or the Festival of Speed. Sounds to me like there's something to learn from Charlie March.
So I suggest some practical improvements. Seriously, get yourself down to Rockingham (first Sunday in the month). Tell me honestly that their stand facility is not miles ahead of Silverstone. Better for customers, better for generating income.
You may not want to pay for a Big Mac (cheaper than the horseburgers, by the way), but a lot of people will. Read what I said. They tried it in Melbourne and it was huge. IIRC, it was amongst the busiest McDonald's restaurants in the world. It works. So do it.
Then make the effort to visit the Revival Meeting. Clearly you haven't, or if you have you haven't really thought about what's happening around you. Don't watch the racing, just look around the Paddock and Spectator areas. Look at the details. Look at how much cash is being spent. Of course the circuit isn't to GP specification. Of course (some of) the facilities aren't as fancy as Silverstone. But Charles March knows what the punters want. He pitches at a variety of levels, and at every turn there's something to amaze and enthrall. What matters to you, a funky glass-fronted Paddock Club that you're never going to visit, or a decent lunch, a decent pint, a chance to see the cars and stars, a decent view of the track? Goodwood sells out. Day spend is huge. Sponsors are queuing up. It makes a profit. It generates immense fan loyalty (the waiting list for the GRRC is very long indeed). Aren't those the things Silverstone would want? So learn the lessons.
The evidence is all around you:
- Silverstone needs to improve or die.
- The real competition is moving forward. Silverstone has to keep up. Not just because Bernie says so, but because it's what the paying public are demanding.
- Claiming other circuits aren't as good is a lame excuse. Countries are queing up to join the circus. That means the weak will fall by the wayside. You can either complain about the injustice of it all, or do something about it. One path leads to prosperity, one to death. Guess which path I propose.
- You don't need to invest a king's ransom starting from a clean sheet of paper. Look at how others have a rolling redevelopment programme, and are very successful at it.
- Bernie may be playing politics, but he has also made some very astute comments about Silverstone. So listen to him.
- Listen to what the customers want. Surprise and delight them. They will spend more, and they will come back again and again.
- Other people are doing it. they are doing it better than you. they are taking your customers. You'd be a fool not to watch and learn.
I can see the potential for the Silverstone facility, and the customer proposition. It is way, way beyond what they currently achieve. It needs a radical overhaul and radical thinking. This won't happen overnight, it will take five, maybe ten years. But it has to happen, and in ten years we will be looking back wondering why on earth we put up with what we used to have.
I went to the test on wednesday, my first visit to silverstone and, whilst the facilities were not that BAD, I had imagined they would be better.
- Food was rubbish and expensive
- Grandstands were made of scaffolding, only one had a roof
- I had expected to find some kind of museum or memorabilia shop, instead there were stalls like from the set of Eastenders!
There are good points, its free to get in, views of the track were good, especially thru bridge and the complex.
However, as the home of the British Grand Prix, I was a little disappointed.
- Food was rubbish and expensive
- Grandstands were made of scaffolding, only one had a roof
- I had expected to find some kind of museum or memorabilia shop, instead there were stalls like from the set of Eastenders!
There are good points, its free to get in, views of the track were good, especially thru bridge and the complex.
However, as the home of the British Grand Prix, I was a little disappointed.
HiRich said:
- Silverstone isn't the greatest track. It has no Eau Rouge or Parabolica. It has no gradient. As a race circuit, it has no USP, no redeeming feature.
HiRich understand your other comments but not the one about Silverstone not being a great track. Looking at your profile I'm guessing that you must have driven the GP circuit? With Copse, the Maggots/Becketts complex and Bridge Silverstone has some fantastic corners. Having driven them in a TVR Tuscan Challenge car and been through them in a Marcos Mantis NGT they are amazing the high speed change of direction through the complex is breathtaking.
I'd agree with the lack of topography being a pain. In my view Brands is a much better challenge as there are many changes in gradient, Paddock though to Druids being a prime example. Still think that Silverstone as a circuit is a great track to drive and worthy of a GrandPrix - IMO only of course
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