New DVLA conversion requirements.
Discussion
Anyone seen these:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
News to me!
People are saying it's the death of the T5 conversion.
Needs things like a fixed high-top (not pop-up) roof, graphics on the exterior, awning mandatory...
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
News to me!
People are saying it's the death of the T5 conversion.
Needs things like a fixed high-top (not pop-up) roof, graphics on the exterior, awning mandatory...
Think this form on its own is a little misleading.....
It’s a checklist to demonstrate what is on the vehicle, not the minimum requirements as far as I can tell from reading this...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...
It’s a checklist to demonstrate what is on the vehicle, not the minimum requirements as far as I can tell from reading this...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/convert...
I think the confusion stems from how the above form interacts with this categorisation:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registe...
In short, what does "a combination" in my link mean? Pick two, three, four...? It's a bit ambiguous...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registe...
In short, what does "a combination" in my link mean? Pick two, three, four...? It's a bit ambiguous...
They haven't got much of a clue really, so much contradiction and ambiguity. They need to get some sort of advice in from campers who have done conversions and also look at what the professionally constructed mass produced motor caravans from the major manufacturer are like.
"Fixed table" ??? Far from being a "Common feature", nothing, absolutely nothing, across the entire spectrum has a fixed table, you just won't find one anywhere. A "Non-fixed" demountable table is the norm, for the obvious reasons of space saving efficiency.
"Graphics" ??? Might be standard, might be optional, might be a delete option, but it's not a given feature on mass produced so why should it be a feature on a self build?
I changed the classification on my Convoy from minibus to motor caravan, but had to ring them for clarification, it was actually very simple once I'd established the minimum requirements.
You don't need a fixed table, you don't need graphics, you don't need an awning, you don't need a Hi-top (although I happened to have one), and a pop top is just fine.
There are about five main things that you must have, so why cloud the issue with lists of things that you might also have, over and above the five main things, that read like must haves too, when they're not!
They really need to sort this out, caravan and camping forums are full of threads about the confusion
"Fixed table" ??? Far from being a "Common feature", nothing, absolutely nothing, across the entire spectrum has a fixed table, you just won't find one anywhere. A "Non-fixed" demountable table is the norm, for the obvious reasons of space saving efficiency.
"Graphics" ??? Might be standard, might be optional, might be a delete option, but it's not a given feature on mass produced so why should it be a feature on a self build?
I changed the classification on my Convoy from minibus to motor caravan, but had to ring them for clarification, it was actually very simple once I'd established the minimum requirements.
You don't need a fixed table, you don't need graphics, you don't need an awning, you don't need a Hi-top (although I happened to have one), and a pop top is just fine.
There are about five main things that you must have, so why cloud the issue with lists of things that you might also have, over and above the five main things, that read like must haves too, when they're not!
They really need to sort this out, caravan and camping forums are full of threads about the confusion
I think it’s deliberately ambiguous. The key bit of the guidance is that it needs to look like a motor caravan / camper on the road rather than a generic panel or crew van - but that’s hard to define.
If a random person on the street would think it’s a camper you’re fine. If you’re trying to get a “stealth” camper past the DVLA, or putting a bed in the back of your work van to get higher speed limits you’ll have problems.
So a T5/6 along the lines of a California - windows all round, prominent awning mounted, colour scheme and wheels that are different from a regular builders’ van would be OK. A white panel van with 2 windows fitted wouldn’t be.
If a random person on the street would think it’s a camper you’re fine. If you’re trying to get a “stealth” camper past the DVLA, or putting a bed in the back of your work van to get higher speed limits you’ll have problems.
So a T5/6 along the lines of a California - windows all round, prominent awning mounted, colour scheme and wheels that are different from a regular builders’ van would be OK. A white panel van with 2 windows fitted wouldn’t be.
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 23 October 18:47
At least the new guidelines give clarity now. It was a crazy legal requirement to apply if internal requirements were met - then you got bounced because of the external not being right. They set the external criteria back in 2011/12 after consultation with police & insurers but have never confirmed exactly what they were. Seems they went soft on them soon after until the clamp down in mid May this year. I saw a freedom of info response from DVLA that showed rejections were 328 out of 2086 applications in May & 2196 out of 2531 applications in July!
Shouldn't be the end of T5 conversions or similar - the classification doesn't give many advantages. More savvy insurers will cover campers that are not reclassified, tax isn't an issue & it looks like the speed limit advantage may have been dropped Bit ambiguous that bit. Speed limits for motorhomes remain the same elsewhere on the dvla site.
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.
link
I thinks some ferry co's charge more for vans over campers but no biggie.
I believe the new VW California camper is a MPV instead of a 'motor caravan' on the V5c
Unless they have a pop top a lot of smaller van conversions could qualify as dual purpose vehicles & gain the normal car speed limits. Give me stealth & no decals over 'motor caravan' on my V5! Although I did photoshop some on for a previous failed reclassification.
[i]a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.[/i]
Shouldn't be the end of T5 conversions or similar - the classification doesn't give many advantages. More savvy insurers will cover campers that are not reclassified, tax isn't an issue & it looks like the speed limit advantage may have been dropped Bit ambiguous that bit. Speed limits for motorhomes remain the same elsewhere on the dvla site.
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.
link
I thinks some ferry co's charge more for vans over campers but no biggie.
I believe the new VW California camper is a MPV instead of a 'motor caravan' on the V5c
Unless they have a pop top a lot of smaller van conversions could qualify as dual purpose vehicles & gain the normal car speed limits. Give me stealth & no decals over 'motor caravan' on my V5! Although I did photoshop some on for a previous failed reclassification.
[i]a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.[/i]
So it's more about what Police and Insurers would say a motor caravan was, rather than what a motor caravanner would say a motor caravan was. That explains a lot.
I get the bit about people trying to reclassify for all sorts of fringe benefits when no real conversion has been done and it's little more than a sleeping bag on the floor of a van.
I found it was worth going to the trouble to reclassify, as when dealing online with insurance and ferrys and the tunnel, the reg number now comes up with the correct details and Motor Caravan. Previously it was a Minibus, but it would come up as a Tipper and I would be redirected to the freight web site for the ferry/tunnel.
I get the bit about people trying to reclassify for all sorts of fringe benefits when no real conversion has been done and it's little more than a sleeping bag on the floor of a van.
I found it was worth going to the trouble to reclassify, as when dealing online with insurance and ferrys and the tunnel, the reg number now comes up with the correct details and Motor Caravan. Previously it was a Minibus, but it would come up as a Tipper and I would be redirected to the freight web site for the ferry/tunnel.
sjg said:
I think it’s deliberately ambiguous. The key bit of the guidance is that it needs to look like a motor caravan / camper on the road rather than a generic panel or crew van - but that’s hard to define.
If a random person on the street would think it’s a camper you’re fine. If you’re trying to get a “stealth” camper past the DVLA, or putting a bed in the back of your work van to get higher speed limits you’ll have problems.
So a T5/6 along the lines of a California - windows all round, prominent awning mounted, colour scheme and wheels that are different from a regular builders’ van would be OK. A white panel van with 2 windows fitted wouldn’t be.
Well it’s certainly a lot less rapey than an old tranny with a dirty mattress in the back If a random person on the street would think it’s a camper you’re fine. If you’re trying to get a “stealth” camper past the DVLA, or putting a bed in the back of your work van to get higher speed limits you’ll have problems.
So a T5/6 along the lines of a California - windows all round, prominent awning mounted, colour scheme and wheels that are different from a regular builders’ van would be OK. A white panel van with 2 windows fitted wouldn’t be.
Edited by sjg on Wednesday 23 October 18:47
spiritburner said:
(i)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle
(b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle;
Where's this from? (b)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle;
It has to be All Wheel Drive and have additional seats behind the front row seats?
(My vehicle is rear wheel drive and has a separate washroom behind the driver and a kitchen behind the other front seats, the twin fixed rear beds are not passenger carrying (same layout as an Autocruise Rhythm), it was approved by the DVLA a couple of months back).
21st Century Man said:
Where's this from?
It has to be All Wheel Drive and have additional seats behind the front row seats?
(My vehicle is rear wheel drive and has a separate washroom behind the driver and a kitchen behind the other front seats, the twin fixed rear beds are not passenger carrying (same layout as an Autocruise Rhythm), it was approved by the DVLA a couple of months back).
It's the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - linkIt has to be All Wheel Drive and have additional seats behind the front row seats?
(My vehicle is rear wheel drive and has a separate washroom behind the driver and a kitchen behind the other front seats, the twin fixed rear beds are not passenger carrying (same layout as an Autocruise Rhythm), it was approved by the DVLA a couple of months back).
Scroll down to Dual Purpose. It's All Wheel Drive or etc etc
Skyedriver said:
For the uninitiated (me) what are the benefits of registration as a motor home or camper over a van please?
Very little. Cheaper insurance was one advantage but savvy insurers will now insure at cheaper rate without the classification as we were pleased to discover after reclassification rejected. Car speed limit was another but that can be gotten around with the right van & build as posted above. Some ferry companies will charge more for a van. Can't see any difference on tax.It was a legal requirement to apply if all the internal requirements were met. Looks like they have dropped that requirement now the external requirement has been clarified.
Some insurers still want it & I've heard of deadlines being issued to self-convertors to get the classification. Simply fixed - move insurer.
Skyedriver said:
For the uninitiated (me) what are the benefits of registration as a motor home or camper over a van please?
I understood it was lower tax (not sure about that though!), generally lower insurance, & the ability to have speed limits as per a car. Even thought it is precisely the same vehicle really!But I really am no expert, having prevaricated about a camper for years!!
Skyedriver said:
For the uninitiated (me) what are the benefits of registration as a motor home or camper over a van please?
Apparently it's something to do with ULEZ exemption, I heard from a pretty reliable source that around 30,000 are trying to reregister their vans as campers. Apparently campers below 2500kg only are exempt. ......I'm sure that most conversions are over that anyway.
rwm1962 said:
Skyedriver said:
For the uninitiated (me) what are the benefits of registration as a motor home or camper over a van please?
Very little. Cheaper insurance was one advantage but savvy insurers will now insure at cheaper rate without the classification as we were pleased to discover after reclassification rejected. Car speed limit was another but that can be gotten around with the right van & build as posted above. Some ferry companies will charge more for a van. Can't see any difference on tax.It was a legal requirement to apply if all the internal requirements were met. Looks like they have dropped that requirement now the external requirement has been clarified.
Some insurers still want it & I've heard of deadlines being issued to self-convertors to get the classification. Simply fixed - move insurer.
geeks said:
Why was it rejected if you dont mind my asking? I reclassified ours 2 years ago and it was a doddle, send picture and letter to DVLA with the V5. Got a new V5 back a week later with the updated classification. Job, jobbed!
It didn't look like a Motorhome from the outside. If we'd applied in April it would have gomne throughshovelheadrob said:
Apparently it's something to do with ULEZ exemption, I heard from a pretty reliable source that around 30,000 are trying to reregister their vans as campers.
Apparently campers below 2500kg only are exempt. ......I'm sure that most conversions are over that anyway.
Is that based purely on emissions - not vehicle type?Apparently campers below 2500kg only are exempt. ......I'm sure that most conversions are over that anyway.
Dunno about 30K trying to register.
Below is from a FOI request to DVLA
'The figures from August 2014 - August 2016 show the total number of accepted
applications. The number of rejected applications during this time period is not held.'
2014-08
532
2014-09
568
2014-10
561
2014-11
496
2014-12
329
2015-01
450
2015-02
430
2015-03
624
2015-04
650
2015-05
579
2015-06
747
2015-07
569
2015-08
380
2015-09
649
2015-10
941
2015-11
747
2015-12
504
2016-01
465
2016-02
449
2016-03
878
2016-04
958
2016-05
871
2016-06
919
2016-07
1188
2016-08
1058
2016-09
1044
2016-10
1147
2016-11
893
2016-12
574
2017-01
991
2017-02
859
2017-03
1117
2017-04
1212
2017-05
1335
2017-06
1357
2017-07
1408
2017-08
1582
2017-09
1345
2017-10
1304
2017-11
1352
2017-12
892
2018-01
1214
2018-02
941
2018-03
1482
2018-04
1508
2018-05
1626
2018-06
2015
2018-07
2173
2018-08
2231
2018-09
1629
2018-10
1767
2018-11
1570
2018-12
952
2019-01
1425
2019-02
1442
2019-03
1995
2019-04
1925
2019-05
2026
2019-06
1722
2019-07
2531
Another FOI response does give rejection figures for May - July this year so they are now recording the rejections
Reclassification
2019
May
1698 Approved
328 Rejected
June
884 Approved
836 Rejected
July
335 Approved
2196 Rejected
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