Ongoing property taxes in Provence
Discussion
I’ve been googling this for the last couple of hours and have not been able to find the answers I seek. So over to you....
I can’t get enough of Provence and life has settled in a way that allows me to think it might be time to move.
I’m a numbers guy and have a spreadsheet for all my outgoings but have nothing to plug into my ‘move to Provence outgoings’ spreadsheet that relates to ongoing property taxes (council tax in the UK).
Let’s say I was lucky enough to have €1m house a few miles outside of Nice. It would be my full time home and I would be resident in a France. Roughly what would I be looking at for ongoing property taxes, waste collection etc?
Anything else I should consider for ongoing costs that I don’t already have in the UK?
Thanks in advance.
I can’t get enough of Provence and life has settled in a way that allows me to think it might be time to move.
I’m a numbers guy and have a spreadsheet for all my outgoings but have nothing to plug into my ‘move to Provence outgoings’ spreadsheet that relates to ongoing property taxes (council tax in the UK).
Let’s say I was lucky enough to have €1m house a few miles outside of Nice. It would be my full time home and I would be resident in a France. Roughly what would I be looking at for ongoing property taxes, waste collection etc?
Anything else I should consider for ongoing costs that I don’t already have in the UK?
Thanks in advance.
Tax fonceier will be the main expense. I believe tax de habitation is being phased out I believe.
You may also pay for main drainage if the house is connected to town drains.
The television license is included in the tax fonceier. This tax is worked on size of the property etc.
You will want to be looking into your personal tax situation if moving to France.
Others here will know more than me on that.
Good luck.
You may also pay for main drainage if the house is connected to town drains.
The television license is included in the tax fonceier. This tax is worked on size of the property etc.
You will want to be looking into your personal tax situation if moving to France.
Others here will know more than me on that.
Good luck.
Tax d,habitation and tax foncieres are the two you pay every year , although youll have to choose your house and ask the existing owner what they cost as everywhere is different , I've had two places in the Dordogne and the houses were a lot closer to sarlat town than the actual place where my taxes were paid to . And it was substantially cheaper where I was than in sarlat town and its surrounding area . Remember you'll also pay all the fees when you buy , agents and notaries fees are your responsibility on top of the purchase price and can be surprisingly expensive , as are a lot of things in france apart from booze !
Good luck but I can't advise you enough to rent in your chosen area for a year just to make sure it's definitely for you , I've seen a lot of people's dreams turn into a nightmare over the past 15 years in france .
Good luck but I can't advise you enough to rent in your chosen area for a year just to make sure it's definitely for you , I've seen a lot of people's dreams turn into a nightmare over the past 15 years in france .
Thank you all for the replies and advice so far.
I’m lucky to have bought and sold property in London at favourable times to allow for this move. My ongoing income will be fairly modest if I move to France so the difference of a few thousand €s a year in ongoing taxes will make a difference to the type of property I’m able to consider.
Yes, renting first is definitely part of the plan but I’m still keen to know what level of outgoings I’m going to need to budget for when/if I own a home. I’ll try to to get talking to some local residents but i thought it less intrusive to ask on a forum like this than than face to face.
Roughly speaking, my similar value home in the UK costs me just under £300 pm in council tax and the same again in electricity, water, broadband, phone & sky TV (inc tv licence). Just wondering if it’ll be similar in France or significantly more expensive?
I’m lucky to have bought and sold property in London at favourable times to allow for this move. My ongoing income will be fairly modest if I move to France so the difference of a few thousand €s a year in ongoing taxes will make a difference to the type of property I’m able to consider.
Yes, renting first is definitely part of the plan but I’m still keen to know what level of outgoings I’m going to need to budget for when/if I own a home. I’ll try to to get talking to some local residents but i thought it less intrusive to ask on a forum like this than than face to face.
Roughly speaking, my similar value home in the UK costs me just under £300 pm in council tax and the same again in electricity, water, broadband, phone & sky TV (inc tv licence). Just wondering if it’ll be similar in France or significantly more expensive?
Choose the area , commune , town where you want to be and go to the mayors office . They'll have everything you need to know , they'll also know who's looking to sell within their area , the mayors office is very important in france and you'll be looked upon favourably after introducing yourself and asking all the appropriate questions , just be polite and humble and you'll not go far wrong . My mayor and his staff were always very helpful with me , and god knows I needed all the help I could get , despite my terrible French . Don't be scared of a private sale not involving estate agents , the mayors office may be able to sort an introduction to a seller for you , it's pretty commonplace and can save you a lot of money and the notaire makes everything fairly foolproof , but does charge handsomely for their services !
My phone and internet is with orange and that's a 37,35 euro per month. Free calls most places in Europe and a crap internet strength.
Electric is about 150 per two months.
Rates etc are about 200 a month.
Heating is by log burner and I pay 53 euro per cube delivered.
Insurance is a big one if you like vehicles. I have five so its five different DD per month I can't seem to get a group policy here.
All based on a two bedroom house with a barn and In ground pool.
Averidged fuel used per week for our cars is about 120€ per week. We live about 8 kl from our local town,but both work so it can vary.
Electric is about 150 per two months.
Rates etc are about 200 a month.
Heating is by log burner and I pay 53 euro per cube delivered.
Insurance is a big one if you like vehicles. I have five so its five different DD per month I can't seem to get a group policy here.
All based on a two bedroom house with a barn and In ground pool.
Averidged fuel used per week for our cars is about 120€ per week. We live about 8 kl from our local town,but both work so it can vary.
As far as Taxe Fonciere is concerned it’s based on amount of land, bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc. (habitable space) with a community charge on top that is levied differently by each commune. The place we’ve just sold in the Limousin had two houses, one large at 3300 sq ft 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms and the “cottage” which had two bedrooms and two bathrooms, there was an in-ground pool an 16 acres of land, two barns and a double garage. I’ve just this week paid the Taxe Fonciere and it was 1500 euros for 2019. We must have been in the first tranche of the folks not paying Taxe Habitation as we were not billed last year or this year so happy days as that was based on property and income.
I think the Taxe Fonciere in the area you are looking will be far higher based on the local tax element alone let alone a £1m property. Anyway, good luck if you do move, we were sad to leave and overall enjoyed our 15 years in France. We are not cutting our ties completely as we have a house full of furniture stored ready to go into a property my son-in-law is looking to buy in the South somewhere in the Cannes area once his property also in the Limousin is sold.
I think the Taxe Fonciere in the area you are looking will be far higher based on the local tax element alone let alone a £1m property. Anyway, good luck if you do move, we were sad to leave and overall enjoyed our 15 years in France. We are not cutting our ties completely as we have a house full of furniture stored ready to go into a property my son-in-law is looking to buy in the South somewhere in the Cannes area once his property also in the Limousin is sold.
We a resident for tax in France as we live here for 7 summer months a year. Our house value is nothing like you are planning so do not pay wealth tax. Our monthly outgoings are as follows
Gas heating. 192. Not here during winter
Heath ins. 122
Tav Hab. 156
Tax Fonce 240
Tax Inc. 281
EDF. 157 Includes heating pool
4G int. 33
Water about 200pa, but I have a borehole for watering
My wife pays about £5k p.a. on her UK pension, but they take an extra slice here.
Gas heating. 192. Not here during winter
Heath ins. 122
Tav Hab. 156
Tax Fonce 240
Tax Inc. 281
EDF. 157 Includes heating pool
4G int. 33
Water about 200pa, but I have a borehole for watering
My wife pays about £5k p.a. on her UK pension, but they take an extra slice here.
Edited by rdjohn on Monday 7th October 17:09
If you were considering a move to France, but don’t want hit by French taxes, is there a limit on the time you can spend in the country, like the 90 days in the UK?
Is the ‘Escape to the Chateau’ model a viable proposition, or are there hidden dangers?
(That’s really an invitation to tell your horror stories!)
Is the ‘Escape to the Chateau’ model a viable proposition, or are there hidden dangers?
(That’s really an invitation to tell your horror stories!)
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 17th December 23:12
cardigankid said:
If you were considering a move to France, but don’t want hit by French taxes, is there a limit on the time you can spend in the country, like the 90 days in the UK?
Is the ‘Escape to the Chateau’ model a viable proposition, or are there hidden dangers?
(That’s really an invitation to tell your horror stories!)
There are no horror stories, provided that you go in eyes-wide-open.Is the ‘Escape to the Chateau’ model a viable proposition, or are there hidden dangers?
(That’s really an invitation to tell your horror stories!)
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 17th December 23:12
The 90-days in the UK only apply if you claim to be non-domicile. eg Lewis Hamilton scenario.
Within EU there are 3 tests for residency
Where do you spend more than 183-days each year?
Where is you principal residence?
Where do you derive your principle source of income?
Meeting any one of them means that you are resident in France, or any other EU country, for tax purposes.
Escape to the chateau is a surreal UK TV program. You will be very disappointed if you believe that it represents anything like real life in France.
Channel 4 should issue a disclaimer before screening escape to the chateau . It's fine if you already have a tv career in mainstream tv , I'm still not sure wether the strawbridges had the whole tv series in mind and how long they could support a wedding business off the back of it or they just lucked into it ? They've definitely had a lot of advertising off the back of it as well as being paid for the program.
Well done to them either way , but if you watch the first series dick freely admits they have €20,000 renovation budget . He does later say they've spent over ten times that amount on the chateau, but from my own and others first hand experience I think he's maybe not quite admitting the truth .
Main problem with this subject is that the English perception of value for money is based on English property , it looks cheap in france but the reality is it isn't , it's market value , but when you can buy a castle for the same amount as a 2 bed terrace it's difficult not to get carried away , I almost did myself !
I've said before on this forum , when I lived in france I ended up working for English people , most were scraping by , a lot were unhappy and looking to bail out , at a financial loss .
It's not all doom and gloom , I enjoyed my time there , and the people and lifestyle but ultimately it wasn't for us , and we tried twice . We also got lucky twice on selling up , the details are elsewhere on the forum .
Good luck to anyone who tries it , but eyes wide open and never once stand back when looking at a property in france and say " just imagine what this would be worth in England " also remember it's probably going to get even further away soon .
Well done to them either way , but if you watch the first series dick freely admits they have €20,000 renovation budget . He does later say they've spent over ten times that amount on the chateau, but from my own and others first hand experience I think he's maybe not quite admitting the truth .
Main problem with this subject is that the English perception of value for money is based on English property , it looks cheap in france but the reality is it isn't , it's market value , but when you can buy a castle for the same amount as a 2 bed terrace it's difficult not to get carried away , I almost did myself !
I've said before on this forum , when I lived in france I ended up working for English people , most were scraping by , a lot were unhappy and looking to bail out , at a financial loss .
It's not all doom and gloom , I enjoyed my time there , and the people and lifestyle but ultimately it wasn't for us , and we tried twice . We also got lucky twice on selling up , the details are elsewhere on the forum .
Good luck to anyone who tries it , but eyes wide open and never once stand back when looking at a property in france and say " just imagine what this would be worth in England " also remember it's probably going to get even further away soon .
paulwirral said:
Lots of sensible stuff
Plus one from me. Eyes wide open, research the area you're interested in then rent there for at least 6 months if not 12. Some places are great all year round, others are chalk and cheese, lively for 4 months then dead for the next 8..... We can live here on my pension because we own our little pile of stones outright and live quite simply. YMMV but good luck if you decide to go for it.I've advised a couple of people to rent a property in their chosen area for at least 6 months , October to March or preferably a year and visit it as much as possible even if it ends up stood empty for a few months . You'll get the real feeling for the area , and as pointed out , lots of busy places almost close down over the winter months . Where I lived you'll be lucky if 10% of the restaurants were still open off season . I know a couple of people who run restaurants during the summer and are builders , satellite tv fitters out of season .
I’ve holidayed in France but never lived there, and I wouldn’t plan to live there most of the year. I’ll be damn sure not to meet the criteria, many thanks!
Is climate an important consideration? Should I go for some thing in Provence, to get the maximum sunshine? I’ve been in Normandy when it has been like Ayrshire on a bad weekend. What’s it like in the eastern Pyrenees?
What are the main taxes, and is it worth paying them?
Why are there SO many chateaux for sale?
Is climate an important consideration? Should I go for some thing in Provence, to get the maximum sunshine? I’ve been in Normandy when it has been like Ayrshire on a bad weekend. What’s it like in the eastern Pyrenees?
What are the main taxes, and is it worth paying them?
Why are there SO many chateaux for sale?
Because they're money pits and france is expensive. As I said before , they aren't cheap , they are priced at market value and trades are very expensive in france .
The French tend to prefer newer well insulated cheap to run properties that suit their lives , not huge look at me piles to prove how much wealthy they are . If that sounds rude it's not meant to be . When I extended my first French home the neighbours all asked when the baby was due , they don't see the value in extending property for financial gain . I learnt a lot from living there and it definitely changed my outlook on life and property .
I built the second house myself and sold it without advertising or an agent as I kept my target market in mind during planning and the guy that bought it was a wealthy French guy looking for a second home , a friend had his house for sale for nearly 3 years and it cost him a fortune .
For all I do keep looking at other properties abroad it's now 1 bed apartments in coastal town centres , and even then I know fine well that we are much better off renting someone else's for a few months slightly out of season than buying one . We don't have kids so we aren't looking to leave anything when we die , I understand completely why others may want to .
The French tend to prefer newer well insulated cheap to run properties that suit their lives , not huge look at me piles to prove how much wealthy they are . If that sounds rude it's not meant to be . When I extended my first French home the neighbours all asked when the baby was due , they don't see the value in extending property for financial gain . I learnt a lot from living there and it definitely changed my outlook on life and property .
I built the second house myself and sold it without advertising or an agent as I kept my target market in mind during planning and the guy that bought it was a wealthy French guy looking for a second home , a friend had his house for sale for nearly 3 years and it cost him a fortune .
For all I do keep looking at other properties abroad it's now 1 bed apartments in coastal town centres , and even then I know fine well that we are much better off renting someone else's for a few months slightly out of season than buying one . We don't have kids so we aren't looking to leave anything when we die , I understand completely why others may want to .
Gromm said:
Have you considered Spain? 
It's the only place I would consider , but northern Spain , I prefer the basque region to the costas . We actually went to estepona before buying in france 19 years ago , did an extended road trip for 3 months , and took a lot in . Unfortunately we missed northern Spain as we followed the normal route through france and down to the costas .
cardigankid said:
Yes, I was in Spain in 2018 on a reconnaissance. I would appreciate any views or comments you care to share. I just want access to some sunshine and the European lifestyle occasionally.
I live in France during summer months and rent a 2-bed penthouse in Marbella Jan, Feb, Mar. The cost of property in that part of Spain is massively expensive IMHO, whereas you can get a Big Bang for your bucks in France.Spain is also very easy going compared to France, but it is too hot and full of awful tourists during the summer. But the weather during the winter in France can be pretty poor sometimes.
Flights to a Spain tend to be cheaper than France, but I always tend to drive.
You need to speak French, but can get by with some basic Spanish.
In the north of Spain the Costa Verde is so-called for a reason. My friend recently was looking in the Algarve for a winter residence. A couple of trips there soon convinced him that Marbella was a better option. During the winter it is very cosmopolitan and there are lots of things to get involved with.
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