'Cafe culture'

[Twincam16]

This is really annoying me. The blatant social engineers in the local Yorkshire councils are intent on 'encouraging a European-style cafe culture'. How are they going to do this, you may ask?

Well, they say 'we're going to build Meditteranean-style piazzas' and 'we're going to encourage an atmosphere'.

But I can't actually see anything they're going to do other than take away all the parking spaces.

It's the biggest, shoddiest excuse for an anti-car policy I've seen in a long time.

Anyone else finding a 'cafe culture' being 'encouraged' by smarmy non-driving MPs in their local area?

And FFS Barnsley is not 'like San Gimignano'. Have they actually been to Tuscany?

[andymaserati]

I don't know what you mean by that? what has a cafe culture got to do with the removal of car parks???

[andymaserati]

I'm from York, where the are many car parks, a pedestrian area, and lots of piazza's. I think that is great, what i do hate about yorkshire councils, is there answer to parking. You can now park your car all day for only £3000000000 (ok slight over statement) but it's stupid parking costs! ruins going into town for the lovely european culture

[andymaserati]

los angeles said:

Isn't parking and pedestrian precinct policy a general gassing topic? (General Gassing, at ease!) I'm off for an espresso.

Isn't general gassing more to do with Cars?
General (motoring) gassing

[pesty]

I disagree with you on this one twincam.

I think its great. I love leeds and that has plenty and there is a place in reading called riverside? that is basicaly loads of cafs and bars with seats outside. Absolutely great in summer.

Yorkshire needs a bit of brightening up.

>> Edited by pesty on Friday 27th May 23:29

[simpo two]

Mmm. Sitting on the pavement on an uncomfortable metal chair drinking coffee at £3 a cup and freezing your nuts off. Mediterranean we are not.

Wonder when the Italians will be having British-style greasy caffs with artificial fag smoke blown in? Seems like a fair swap.

[LongQ]

Large chunks of Nottingham have this sort of concept now, though more for the night time boozers than day time espresso sippers as far as I can see.

Car policy is possibly even more anti than York.

Of course with it came trams, half the buildings in the city being converted to bars and clubs, endless drunken yobbery into the early hours and a burgeoning gun crime.

Obviously a great step forward on the culture front.

[v8 westy]

if british pubs and restaurants found that they could rely on the weather to give enough trade for outside tables, they would do in an instant!

but having eaten in several corporation style bankss pubs recently, i would say that you get better food in prison!

our "local" is deader than a dodo, the food is shite and the staff outnumber the customers!

[Iria]

I do agree with cafe culture, but
a) coffe is cr*p and awfully expensive in most places and
b) coffee places close down at five!!!!
c) weather is appalling
so no wonder that we have a lager culture instead i.e. I am not going to the pub for an expresso...And, furthermore, a pint of lager is cheaper than an expresso in some places! I remember finishing work at uni in Newcastle at around 6 and feeling like a good coffee and a nice sit down with my friends for a chat and all the nice cafes being closed which was most depressing.

[Twincam16]

pesty said:

I think its great. I love leeds and that has plenty and there is a place in reading called riverside? that is basicaly loads of cafs and bars with seats outside. Absolutely great in summer.

That is not what they're talking about.

They're outlining plans for Hull, Huddersfield, Lincoln and so on, to build large pedestrianised areas full of places to sit and drink coffee and read newspapers.

That I have absolutely no problem with at all.

The part I do have a problem with, that residents have already started complaining about, is the fact that every one of these 'Piazzas' involves getting rid of a car park, in some cases 3-figure capacity parks. Even the owners of the coffee shops know full well they won't have any customers if there's nowhere to park (they don't like the idea), and the area will not be helped in it's 'atmosphere' by people driving round and round and round looking for somewhere to stick the car before saying 'sod it' and going home.

But of course the sort of people who think bus lanes are a good idea seem absolutely intent on equating one of the areas with the worst weather in Britain with coastal Italy, France and Spain, and you can tell, in their choice of words when interviewed, that their primary interest is to make life more inconvenient for visiting motorists.

It's not the concept I have a problem with (should've retitled the thread perhaps), it's the reasoning behind it.

And you don't 'encourage' cultures in the same way you don't 'make' something 'socially unacceptable' - it's just 'there', or things just 'are'. To force it is social engineering. What's wrong with the English market square, surely the equivalent, still found, pedestrianised, in all these places.

[D Fender]

pesty said:

there is a place in reading

But that's a lot closer to the equator!

[turbobloke]

Well this might not seem relevant to the specific areas under discussion, but it's worth remembering that the EU drives BLiar's lot who drive local planning policy, and the EU say that the car is a major cause of social exclusion and its use must be reduced by all means possible. Here's a means, and there'll be more. B0ll0x it may be, but it's the view of policymakers.

Grounds for suspecting motorist paranoia disappeared long ago

Enjoy cafés but keep on

[D Fender]

Twincam16 said:

...and the area will not be helped in it's 'atmosphere' by people driving round and round and round looking for somewhere to stick the car before saying 'sod it' and going home.

Read somewhere recently that 80%



Yes 80 per cent

of city centre traffic is.....

people looking for parking spaces

[parrot of doom]

lol. It just won't work in this country, because:

a) Weather
b) Traffic
c) Food

Go eat in a French cafe, and you get excellent service, cheap food (that tastes great), and the odd car pootling by. Do it over here, and you have a constant stream of buses, the food is expensive (and poor), and its usually a bit chilly.

Its like building a sking resort in Africa.

[mojocvh]

[quote=turbobloke]Well this might not seem relevant to the specific areas under discussion, but it's worth remembering that the EU drives BLiar's lot who drive local planning policy, and the EU say that the car is a major cause of social exclusion and its use must be reduced by all means possible.

The've just started pulling down Dundee centre by the railway station and HMC&E. It will take 10, YES 10, years.
Already the carpaking spaces are down 10% and obviously a knock-on effect on the number of people wanting to come into town AND SPEND THEIR £££.

But it doesn't matter. The planners will have their way.

MoJo.

[hornet]

turbobloke said:

Well this might not seem relevant to the specific areas under discussion, but it's worth remembering that the EU drives BLiar's lot who drive local planning policy, and the EU say that the car is a major cause of social exclusion

So is having to pay £4 for a ing coffee!

The irony is that this "European" cafe culture will doubtless involve loads of branches of Starbucks and Subway...

[Twincam16]

hornet said:

turbobloke said: Well this might not seem relevant to the specific areas under discussion, but it's worth remembering that the EU drives BLiar's lot who drive local planning policy, and the EU say that the car is a major cause of social exclusion So is having to pay £4 for a ing coffee! The irony is that this "European" cafe culture will doubtless involve loads of branches of Starbucks and Subway...

Very true.

Also, what are these bullshit terms 'social exclusion' doing?

I thought 'social exclusion' was when people found themselves falling outside such constructs as the family, education, marriage, friendship circles, employment etc. Sounds like another misbegotten term hijacked and aimed at cars because they don't like the fact that they don't control them IMHO.

[wedg1e]

In the village where I live someone opened a continental-styled cafe. They put chairs and tables outside, smell of espresso, croissants, the full bit.


The locals complained

[Twincam16]

wedg1e said:

In the village where I live someone opened a continental-styled cafe. They put chairs and tables outside, smell of espresso, croissants, the full bit. The locals complained

Did they get rid of the car park outside though?

[andy4200]

Twincam16 said:

This is really annoying me. The blatant social engineers in the local Yorkshire councils are intent on 'encouraging a European-style cafe culture'. How are they going to do this, you may ask? Well, they say 'we're going to build Meditteranean-style piazzas' and 'we're going to encourage an atmosphere'. But I can't actually see anything they're going to do other than take away all the parking spaces. It's the biggest, shoddiest excuse for an anti-car policy I've seen in a long time.

I like cafe culture..... when it's sunny and hot but even I can't be ar5ed sitting in a piazza on the mediterranean coast on a cold november evening which is probably the closest equivalent the UK will get.

The solution to the car thing as far as I can see it is to create the proper Italian cafe culture.
Buy a moped, Vespa preferably, get dressed up in the latest fashion, girlfriend on back wearing short skirt, helmets optional (or they were till a couple of years ago). Take it into town, go the wrong way down a one way street, park in the pedestrian precinct, sup coffee and repeat on the way home.

Problem solved and by everyone using bikes/mopeds the congestion issue is solved at the same time.